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Econowave Help Needed

FWIW, threw your modC data into vcad quick to add dY 12.75" and it didn't appreciably do much irrespective of dZ 3.5 or dZ 1inch ... at that dY spacing. Not the right block of time for me to get (all the way) into all of that right now.
 

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Snuck away to get the measurements in and out of phase on my RTA app (AudioTools). First time using an RTA. Let me know if something looks wrong.

In phase, on axis about 20” out.
IMG_0099.jpeg
Out of phase, on axis about 20 out.
IMG_0100.jpeg
 

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@loaded

Well, since you made the effort ( to get a measurement posted before Christmas ) here's what I think you did.

index.php


I believe I see a 10R and a 2R resistor paralleled in the R6 position ) which result in a final value of @ 1.67R .

From my vantage point, it appears that you think that when resistors are paralleled, the values directly add together.

( Not so ! >> they need to be wired in series to get 12R from that pair of resistors ).

Load that 1.67R value into the prediction software and the huge notch gets produced ( centered at @ 2.5K in my simulation ) .

:)
 
Wow… I did know it should have been in series and I still did it wrong. Russ jobs bit you every time. Good catch Earl! I’ll rewire and test.

Haha, I’d be embarrassed if I wasn’t so into how these are sounding. Now they’ll sound better. I hope.
 
Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas!

I have the updated measurements with the XO corrected. Thank you EarlK!

Goodbye notch! Is there any concern on the dip at 250? Seems more pronounced in phase than out of phase.

In phase:
IMG_0101.jpeg
Out of phase:
IMG_0102.jpeg
 
I like the second chart. Maybe your equalizer can adjust some oddities? Then show us a pic of the EQ...Over all I bet they sound good as-is... COOL!
 
Yes, it sounds very good! Even better after correcting the XO. I do have more HF on tap now and I had to turn the Lpad control down a little for some songs. But no songs auditioned were wanting more highs.

Very nice! Liking these a lot. I got my microphone and downloaded REW. ready for the next phase.
 
well I have been listening a lot over the holidays and even found the time to open them back up and get some fiberglass installed. Top, Back and 1 side panel received the FG treatment. It was pretty obvious this helped the bass a lot. The bass was tighter and more clear, just a little more prominent over the range. I even felt the need to up the HF some. Sounded great, liked this tweak a lot. Now that things hould be normalizing at work and home I'll get to measuring everyting... which will be another learning experience. but more postings to come with some measurements.

Pete... I have to thank you on the suggesting for the PRV CD's. They really sound great with the knockoff JBL horn.
 
How do you like the 12" GRS woofer?
Would be nice to change the title of this thread to GRS 12", PRV D230, 6X12" Waveguide since
others might want to build this.
It would be very interesting to try this combo in a sealed Large Advent box, might be a major upgrade.
 
The woofer is great... Wish it was more sensitive but it does go deep so it's a fair trade off. I am enjoying them a lot with the PRV's.

Wish I had some "better" woofers to load and compare as I am sure a nicer driver would sound better. But, how much better?

Looked around and didn't see how to edit the thread name?
 
Neodymium woofers are a little more efficient but cost more. If your spending all this time and money on building cabs I'd consider it. I think it's a great project and has my interest... Also a large dome tweet (1"1/2) could sub for the horn. But I want to see what you design?
 
OK, ( continuing on with this theme ).

Here's a network evolution that extracts a bit more mid-band efficiency ( 1.5-2db > so it's pretty modest ), plus a bit more UHF over 10K.
-The purple trace is the existing projected response with the current network.

PRV 230ti+H6512+GRS-12PT_modF_more-mids_2025-01-08_.png

I would definitely try out the mod to the woofer section > for the small costs of Dayton parts.
- I'd also implement the new UHF PEQ boost section, assuming one can hear over 10K reliably ).

In my world, the final goal here should be to eventually produce a 94-95db efficient 12" eWave design that still has adequate bass > meaning, down to 40 or 50hz.

Altec was able to make this happen with their M14 and M15 speakers ( iow; getting down to 50hz without hugely heroic efforts ).

Ultimately, 30-40hz ( f3 cutoff ) might need to be attained by going to an MLTL box design ( which I can't help with > though perhaps Grindstone can ;) )

Hopefully you ( @loaded ) are still in this for the long-haul ( as you first mentioned in the early parts of this thread ).

:)
 
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I love it… thank you for the continued efforts EarlK. I’ll implement the XO mods very soon.

Ill be be here for awhile and definitely looking forward to the work left to be done and still so much to learn.

I always planned to make another set of cabs and I was already thinking the next cabs will be a bit bigger to help with get to the 30s.

I’ll pester Grindstone about the MLTL”s but that would be out a bit. Still have lots to learn on the current setup.
 
The teaching-to-fish problem is that @loaded runs Apple gear and the VM seemed to be too much for the machine so the go-to (Win) quarter-wave modeling tools (HornResp, Akabak (16-bit), MJK (NLA), AJHorn ($$$), Leonard Audio, spicyTL) were/are out (as well as XSim) for the moment... I don't know how to help with that--hopefully someone Apple-wise has input?

Going by hand, start where GM sez. :) Alternatively, if using say WinISD etc, one can use xrk's method that @PeteB linked to for a start. Either way, the whole point of MLTL's is to use the standing waves for extension (at the cost of ringing) so the driver & port offsets should be finalized by checking in one of the above-listed modelers or similar to avoid a squiggle. There really isn't a need to take hip-shots in 2025 anymore (ie use HR). Still, if you can't run HR, a person has to start somewhere, so use GM's ratios or, if you're tapering a very long one, you can start w/ Bob Brines' numbers.

If one of the "canned" form-factors of Brian Steele's worksheets looks applicable, an iterative process in Excel and HR can save a lot of time in the "packaging exercise" vs. back and forth in CAD/drawing. (If not a Win user, note that those sheets need the macros so LibreOffice etc doesn't always work right with all of them and I can't recall which work and which don't at this instant.) If you want more 3-D (FreeCAD) packaging interaction with HR instead of Excel, check LordSansui's site for a few foldings of tapered (end-terminated) pipes similar to what Brian has (but I've not used them and don't know if they include driver area like Brian's). (Some people mean a both-ends-closed + port when referring to MLTL's...DIY'er lexicon is fungible. For max clarity, refer to one- or both-ends-closed, straight, increasing, or decreasing taper and everyone will always understand what you mean vs. all the acronyms).
 
He was using some sort of VM I think and indeed doing XSim but was untenable--he was working on that, too. Last I heard, he was reading Wayne's papers by candle light owing to power outage due to living near the apocalyptic conflagration going on.
 
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