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Econowaves, but which drivers?

Kalium said:
I'm not sure I want to buy used drivers from Ebay...
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Well, you're not going to find too many new vintage ones out there.
I bought my LE14s there and they sound fine and have for a couple years. And lots of guys here besides me have also.

Just do your homework and look at a seller's track record and you should do fine.
 
With Deltalite 2512 + B&C 250 I en up at €677 just for the drivers, then I need XO parts, amplifiers, minidsp, microphone and some "serious subwoofers" to keep up with the deltalites, all to fit in my budget of ~€1700. I doubt that's possible...

Is it worth ~€190 more for a pair of Deltalites compared to a pair of Delta 12A?
Is it worth ~€180 more for a pair of B&C 250 compared to the Selenium D220Ti?
 
Kalium said:
With Deltalite 2512 + B&C 250 I en up at €677 just for the drivers, then I need XO parts, amplifiers, minidsp, microphone and some "serious subwoofers" to keep up with the deltalites, all to fit in my budget of ~€1700. I doubt that's possible...

Is it worth ~€190 more for a pair of Deltalites compared to a pair of Delta 12A?
Is it worth ~€180 more for a pair of B&C 250 compared to the Selenium D220Ti?
Click to expand...

If you build one of the Econowave variations documented on this site, or in the "Flex Your PCD Mettle" thread at the Parts Express forum, you don't need the Mini dsp or the measuring microphone. Those projects are pretty well debugged already; if you build them as documented you should have good - or even outstanding - results.

If you get ambitious, Mini DSP could be used in a couple of different ways: as an active crossover, which means you would need separate amps for the bass and treble, or to do room correction. But again - if you build one of the documented Ewave projects you don't need Mini DSP at all, at least to start.


The D220i compression driver is quite nice. At low to moderate volumes it's like listening to a ribbon driver - that same distortion-less character. But it gets hard-sounding when you turn up the volume. If you can afford it, I'd strongly recommend the B&C.

Also, how big a box can you live with? The Efficiency/Size/Bandwidth trade-off is, alas, a real thing.
 
One final thought: a budget of 1700 Euros would get you any of the 4 Pi kits. The principle is the same as Econowave, but different crossover topologies. Wayne P is a super nice guy who knows his stuff.
 
frperdurabo said:
If you build one of the Econowave variations documented on this site, or in the "Flex Your PCD Mettle" thread at the Parts Express forum, you don't need the Mini dsp or the measuring microphone. Those projects are pretty well debugged already; if you build them as documented you should have good - or even outstanding - results.

If you get ambitious, Mini DSP could be used in a couple of different ways: as an active crossover, which means you would need separate amps for the bass and treble, or to do room correction. But again - if you build one of the documented Ewave projects you don't need Mini DSP at all, at least to start.


The D220i compression driver is quite nice. At low to moderate volumes it's like listening to a ribbon driver - that same distortion-less character. But it gets hard-sounding when you turn up the volume. If you can afford it, I'd strongly recommend the B&C.

Also, how big a box can you live with? The Efficiency/Size/Bandwidth trade-off is, alas, a real thing.
Click to expand...

Thanks for a good post!
I was thinking of using the minidsp as an active crossover and as room correction. If you watch the video of my room that I linked to early in this thread you'll see that speaker placement wont be optimal (right channel near a corner, left channel near a door). And yes, I'll need an active XO to cross to the subs I'm going to add as stands for the ewaves.
How loud is "moderate volumes"?

Well, I have a thread going on at diyaudio.com about what to build. I was interested in the Troels DTQWT at first but everybody said they were too big and so on... I don't have to think of any WAF because it's my room and mom has nothing to say about what I put in here :)

frperdurabo said:
One final thought: a budget of 1700 Euros would get you any of the 4 Pi kits. The principle is the same as Econowave, but different crossover topologies. Wayne P is a super nice guy who knows his stuff.
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Links please.
€1700 for only the main speakers is probably a little too much if I need to add subwoofers as well to reach down to ~30-35Hz.
 
Hi Kalium.

I have econowave with Deltalite II 2512 and D220ti. Enter my profile and look at the pictures in my album. Two speakers (midbas and compression drivers, passive xovers and wood with finish) will cost me 600 euros when everything is done.

I listened the B&C DE250, B&C DE500 and D220ti. D220ti stayed with me. DE500 plays almost the same like D220ti (little better of course) but for much more money.

In the begining i was running away from Ti membranes but i realised that DE250 is too soft for my taste. Lacks definition that D220ti have. Some people seems to share my opinion but that doesn't mean that you will to :) You might like DE250 better.

As for Deltalite II 2512, i bought them for 95 euros each. Price tag is different now. Calculated F3 in 114L (4cft) tuned to 38Hz, is 38Hz.

You can tell us of some more brands that you can get your hands on. Maybe there are candidates for ewg midbass.

Check for Beyma, RCF, Selenium, B&C etc.
 
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foofighter said:
This looks interesting:

http://www.europe-audio.com/Product.asp?Product_ID=7841

http://www.europe-audio.com/Product.asp?Product_ID=7844
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Are they as good as or better than the Eminence Delta 12A?

foofighter said:
And try to get Celestion CDX1-1745 compression driver. It costs 50-75 euros a piece, and can be easily obtained in Europe.

Here are measurements for it:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=5235945&postcount=13854
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I googled some and didn't really find it in Europe.
 
They are good. Are they better ? No one knows.

I like the frequency graph better than Eminence Delta, TS parameters also (except Xmax but for room from your clip, that doesn't matter).

How do they sound to you or are you gonna like them, i really don't know. That is something that only your ears can tell you when you measure them and make xover to match.

I like D220ti better than DE250. Who would say that is going to happen ? I understand that most people like DE250 over d220ti but i can't help myself. I'm building these speakers for myself, not for majority that doesn't like the sound of it. That doesn't mean that they are wrong or that i'm wrong just because there are only handful of us nuts that prefer d220ti :) . In the end, i'm the one that have to live with them. No one is wrong here and everyone is right.

If you want guarantee that you will like them, i can't give it to you. No one can for any speaker out there FTM.
 
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Alright...
Woofers are available in Europe.
The celestion drivers and the B&C 250 is available in Europe (although the B&C 250 feels a little pricey).
The horn is not available in Europe. Does anybody know if there is an European seller selling Ewave horns? It would be great if there were any...

So, the drivers I'm chosing from is D220Ti, B&C 250 and Celestion 1745 for the top.
And then Eminence Delta 12A, Stage Line SP-30/200NEO and SPA-30PA. The blue chassie of the SP-30/200NEO is quite ugly though.
 
Try B&C woofers if you can find it near you.

They are very good.

PROPHON AUDIO & TEKNIK AB
P.O. Box 7268
SE-187 14 Täby
Sweden

Tel.+46 8 928600
Fax:+46 8 6230798
Email: info@prophon.se


P.S. And no, i don't know if they are better than Delta 12a :lmao:
 
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foofighter said:
Try B&C woofers if you can find it near you.

They are very good.

PROPHON AUDIO & TEKNIK AB
P.O. Box 7268
SE-187 14 Täby
Sweden

Tel.+46 8 928600
Fax:+46 8 6230798
Email: info@prophon.se


P.S. And no, i don't know if they are better than Delta 12a :lmao:
Click to expand...

That company was seriously overpriced. I check the B&C 250 which costed around 25-30€ more than at Thomann. And all their woofers were like really expensive :S
 
So, the drivers I'm chosing from is D220Ti and Celestion 1745 for the top.
And then Eminence Delta 12A, Stage Line SP-30/200NEO and SPA-30PA. The blue chassie of the SP-30/200NEO is quite ugly though.

Will I need a hp-filter for the woofer? I want to be able to play music like Trentemoller at resonably high levels (I will build a pair of subs, but I guess the woofer don't like lots of 30-40Hz information).

So... You suggest I go for the Celestion tweeter and the Delta12 woofer? Or should I go Selenium D220Ti? God, this is difficult...
 
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