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Electrolytic Capacitor Shoot-Out

Further Thoughts and Conclusion Updates

Well I made a death defying move, and put the Silmic II’s back on the power supply board. This was pull caps and reinstall caps # 7. I soldered them in this time like they are never coming out. After 7 rounds of caps I did start to get a trace lift, but was able to solder it down and all was well. I would say the 30 year old plus Marantz boards are pretty robust, although I try to heat up and remove and replace as quick as possible so as not to over heat. I was originally keeping the Cerafine’s in but they were like a new girl that transferred into your school, and you just had to date her. She lured me away with transparent and crisp upper mids and highs. Soon I began to miss my first love the Silmic II’s they are back in and sounding very smooth.
So as a follow up to my conclusions:

Elna Silmic II-Smooth and tube like

Nichicon KZ/FG-Neutral and accurate, the least colored in the group

Elna Cerafine-Very transparent and crisp upper mids and out to the high end
Good uses would be:
1. You have a very dead room-carpet, plush furniture, heavy drapes.
2. You have speakers like for example Spica TC50’s that roll off in the high end.

Panasonic FC’s-Neutral, rolled off in the highs and the lowest octave, 2D sound.

I also feel more comfortable with the Silmics on board, and being able to listen through as I do the phono board next. I have Elna Silmic II’s, Elna Cerafine’s, and Nichicon ES on the way. They shipped on Tuesday so I hope to get them this week.
 
patfont said:
Well I made a death defying move, and put the Silmic II’s back on the power supply board. This was pull caps and reinstall caps # 7. I soldered them in this time like they are never coming out. After 7 rounds of caps I did start to get a trace lift, but was able to solder it down and all was well. I would say the 30 year old plus Marantz boards are pretty robust, although I try to heat up and remove and replace as quick as possible so as not to over heat. I was originally keeping the Cerafine’s in but they were like a new girl that transferred into your school, and you just had to date her. She lured me away with transparent and crisp upper mids and highs. Soon I began to miss my first love the Silmic II’s they are back in and sounding very smooth.
So as a follow up to my conclusions:

Elna Silmic II-Smooth and tube like

Nichicon KZ/FG-Neutral and accurate, the least colored in the group

Elna Cerafine-Very transparent and crisp upper mids and out to the high end
Good uses would be:
1. You have a very dead room-carpet, plush furniture, heavy drapes.
2. You have speakers like for example Spica TC50’s that roll off in the high end.

Panasonic FC’s-Neutral, rolled off in the highs and the lowest octave, 2D sound.

I also feel more comfortable with the Silmics on board, and being able to listen through as I do the phono board next. I have Elna Silmic II’s, Elna Cerafine’s, and Nichicon ES on the way. They shipped on Tuesday so I hope to get them this week.
Click to expand...

Very useful, how you have describrd the differences.
The ELNA Silmic II, Cerafine and Nichicon KZ caps all have useful sonic characteristics, under different circumstances. Nice.

I'm wondering, though, why you're using the Nichicon ES instead of the KZ on the phono board.
Seems like neutrality/accuracy may specifically be an advantage on the phono board, as well as in the tuner section.
Just curious. My local tuner tech is back to work and wants to use Nichicon caps in my Marantz 150 and 125. So, what's the story?
 
According to someone I talked with they said that the ES are sonically superior so I wanted to try them. I could not use them in the power supply because I could only get the ES in 3 of the 5 caps I needed. I do need to place another cap order so I may also include the KZ. I need to see how the phono board holds up the traces are closer togeather and may be more fragile there, we will see.
 
PB_Audio said:
Just curious. My local tuner tech is back to work and wants to use Nichicon caps in my Marantz 150 and 125. So, what's the story?
Click to expand...

If he is going to use KZ/FG IMHO you would be doing very well, they are the least colored of the group and seem ruler flat and very accurate. They seem well suited for tuner work. And also they do image and have soundstage width and depth. Of all I have listened to they kind of move out of the way and let the music through, which is what you want in a restoration.
 
patfont said:
If he is going to use KZ/FG IMHO you would be doing very well, they are the least colored of the group and seem ruler flat and very accurate. They seem well suited for tuner work. And also they do image and have soundstage width and depth. Of all I have listened to they kind of move out of the way and let the music through, which is what you want in a restoration.
Click to expand...

Thanks Pat. That was my strong impression from your work so far.
 
i ordered Silmic II for my yamaha m-4.
a few values were too low that i couldent find them in the same series.
1uf 100v, 0.68uf 50v 0.1uf 100v.
none of these values are NP. any suggestions on what i should replace them with?

where can i find film caps that are polarised??
 
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aidynphoenix said:
i ordered Silmic II for my yamaha m-4.
a few values were too low that i couldent find them in the same series.
1uf 100v, 0.68uf 50v 0.1uf 100v.
none of these values are NP. any suggestions on what i should replace them with?

where can i find film caps that are polarised??
Click to expand...

There's no such thing as a polarized film cap, but you can replace a polarized cap with an NP one without problems (but not the other way around!)

Mouser carries the Wima MKS2 series, which are great for replacing low value electrolytics in vintage gear.

http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Compo.../_/N-5g7w?P=1z0sedw&Keyword=wima+film&FS=True
 
tyvm.
im not trying to get us off topic but i want to ask. how do film caps sound in comparison to these audio grade electrolyic caps?

pat, or anybody else, would you replace the lower value electrolyc caps with films?
 
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My new best friend

As I was pulling caps and installing caps this became my go to set up for checking Power Supply voltage. I like this better then mini gators.

They screw to your probes:



And the spring loaded clip pops out and locks onto the jumpers perfectly, and easy to sneak in tight places, and J811 on the 2220B Power Supply board is tight!

 
aidynphoenix said:
tyvm.
im not trying to get us off topic but i want to ask. how do film caps sound in comparison to these audio grade electrolyic caps?

pat, or anybody else, would you replace the lower value electrolyc caps with films?
Click to expand...

I like using a good electrolytic, I think Nichicon makes a 1uf 100V. There are others on the forum who like using films for the small value caps, so they will chime in.
 
Phono board caps!

Due to the thin traces on the phono board they are just not going to hold up to what I want to do. This is the rig I will be using. Can I really hear that difference in one cap, Yeeeep! (Like the guy from Storage Wars.) With the Power Supply cap changes I feel you get the biggest difference, on the phono board it is slight another reason I went this way. I can probably change a cap in a couple minutes.

 
patfont said:
Due to the thin traces on the phono board they are just not going to hold up to what I want to do. This is the rig I will be using. Can I really hear that difference in one cap, Yeeeep! (Like the guy from Storage Wars.) With the Power Supply cap changes I feel you get the biggest difference, on the phono board it is slight another reason I went this way. I can probably change a cap in a couple minutes.

Click to expand...

Just the one cap on this board to be replaced?
 
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PB_Audio said:
Just the one cap on this board to be replaced?
Click to expand...

No, this is my test bed. This way I can shuttle a parade of caps back and forth by just putting them on the device I made. That way I do not ruin my circuit board traces. After some exhaustive listening I will then solder in the caps that I choose. There is 5 on the board. Then I will get to the tantalum caps. Here is what I have lined up to try.

Elna Silmic II
Elna Cerafine
Nichicon KZ
Nichicon ES
Panasonic FC

I am hoping the rest of the caps arrive today.
 
patfont said:
No, this is my test bed. This way I can shuttle a parade of caps back and forth by just putting them on the device I made. That way I do not ruin my circuit board traces. After some exhaustive listening I will then solder in the caps that I choose. There is 5 on the board. Then I will get to the tantalum caps. Here is what I have lined up to try.

Elna Silmic II
Elna Cerafine
Nichicon KZ
Nichicon ES
Panasonic FC

I am hoping the rest of the caps arrive today.
Click to expand...

This is going to be GOOD...I love it!

While we're waiting, and for those who are reluctant to try this themselves,
this YouTube tutorial on SOLDERING may be useful,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2ruzyc4
Very informative, IMHO.
 
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I really want to try some of these too but they are very hard to find here in Holland :(
My best bet so far is small German online shop.
 
would it be possible,,, or safe for that matter, to have two types of caps in the circut there, and have a switch you could throw to toggle between the two caps while in mid song?
if you could do that (safely) it might make it easyier to make judgements on the characteristics of each kind.
 
Here are the contenders for rights to be on the Phono Board.



Left to right:

Elna Silmic II
Nichicon KZ
Elna Cerafine
Nichicon ES
Panasonic FC-Boo Hiss, I know I had to solder leads to it, should be ok though.

I have begun listening, the KZ and FC are burned in from the Power Supply board. I need to let the Silmic, Cerafine, and ES break in as they are new. This should not take long, pretty easy to get initial impressions already but to be fair need all to be burned in for some time.
 
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