So I've performed the Crites crossover and Titanium tweeter diaphragm upgrades on my Forte II's and I am extremely pleased with the results. The sound really does improve as the new caps burn in. I also upgraded the internal wiring and 5-way binding posts to Pomona 3770-x Gold-plated Copper binding posts. Would the next logical upgrade be the midrange diaphragms? What about Bob Crites' autoformers? I've read SET12's thread on upgrading his Forte I's, and I just don't want to spend the kind of money for exotic caps and inductors.
Ti mids would be a great next step. In each of the different speakers into which I have installed these I have felt the improvement was far more than what I experienced with the Ti tweeters alone. I would also suggest that you consider some internal brace work for your Forte. Inexpensive to do past your real investment of time and most rewarding as is getting the speakers up on stands to the correct height. Past that simple things like making sure there are no small holes in your passive suspensions which you can easily patch with a little dab of rubber cement for craft work. Splurge and buy some fresh thin closed cell foam weather stripping and make all fresh gaskets for the horns woofer passive and terminal cup. Make sure all your mounting screws are nice and tight any which are stripped or won`t tighten up you can easily fix with a couple of tooth pick ends and a blob of white wood glue. If you want another simple upgrade then snip off the spade connectors at your drivers and hard solder the wires directly to the terminal lugs for a nice boost in the sound. Then spend some time playing with the speaker positioning in your room and see if you can place them as symetrically as you can in terms of corners and adjacent walls. These small changes can make a world of difference all by themselves.
I think the next major improvement that can be made on a restrained budget would be to replace the large inductor in the woofer section with at least a 14 gauge air core solid wire inductor. This won`t cost a lot but it will have a significant impact. After that You might consider Bob`s larger auto transformers, I will let SET 12 comment on them as he has had experience with them in his own speakers. Enjoy your speakers. Best regards Moray James.
Before I get into this, Morays comments are very true, symmetrical listening, full corners and so on. Without this I get lateral suck out in my imaging not nearly as well defined in space, as my lateral imaging can extend 10ft to the left and right of each speaker. But again this is only possible with speaker mods and associated electronics that are capable as well. I realize that not everyone has a desire for this but it just goes to show what a Forte is capable with mods and gear that has the same capability.
The Pomona binding posts are first rate for me, very solid and very well made they are expensive but worth every penny.
The Klipsch Ti mids are worth every penny but they are $165/pair if you can get them as some people have been refused I'm told as Klipsch says they are replacements for their speakers with Ti drivers and not for DIYers mods. Obviously a few of us have ignored the Klipsch statement and very happily so!
My experience with the Crites Autotransformers is they have about a 50% larger core. What that does is give a better sense of space and a greater sense of ease, better bandwidth than the stock but with the C-Core Autotransformers that I'm using they have perhaps 50% more core yet and substantially more iron. They have an even greater sense of ease and more space in every direction more so than the Crites, yet the C-Cores come across as even more natural in combination with the Ti Mids its heaven.
If I had a choice between new autotransformers like the Crites and new Air Core inductors like Solens, I'd take the Solens hands down. The Hysteresis distortion of the Iron Core Inductor IMO seems effect the entire range of the speaker. If one has associated gear that has the capability of wide, deep sound stages. Listening to stock speaker is like watching a home 8mm movie mostly between the speakers while large Air-Cores are capable of expanding the listening width as much as a factor of 3X and images are literally life size. Believe me it freaks people right out when they hear this its an easy demo with a stock pair of Fortes that I have here. But keep in mind not all electronics have this capability but when they do and you use a set of speakers that can take advantage of the electronics startling things happen.
Still though the large Air-Cores used for the woofers will increase the sense of foundation in a wider range of frequencies as an Iron Core seems to have a very narrow range of foundation.
I'd go with Solen 12AWG's for a start at $52.52/each they could be mounted using non magnetic materials on an inside side wall if need be.
http://www.solen.ca/pub/cms_nf_catalogue.php?pageNum_cms_catalogue=2&niveau1=1&niveau2=4&niveau3=69&origniveau=/pub/cms_nf_catalogue_niveau3.php?q=Jm5pdmVhdTE9MSZuaXZlYXUyPTQmc2VjdGlvbj0yJnNvdXNfc2VjdGlvbj00JmZ0PW5m&totalRows_cms_catalogue=48&niveau1=1&niveau2=4&niveau3=69&niveau4=&totalRows_cms_catalogue=48&niveau1=1&niveau2=4&niveau3=69&niveau4=
The 10AWG Solens are $86.74 each so there is a savings with 12AWG which is regarded as the true High Performance staring point according to North Creek.
For one last comment on inductors and not mine BTW, and this is so true!
From here
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/38976.aspx?PageIndex=4
DeanG
Top 10 Contributor
Joined on 02-03-2000
Posts 17,775
Re: Iron-core versus air-core woofer inductor intermod test.
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I didn't expect to ever come back to this thread again, but have had a surprising experience. I finished my ALKs a few days ago, and as part of the build I went with some 10AWG Solen air cores which I mounted on separate boards because of their size. The DCR of the 10AWG air cores is .16, the same as the Erse Super Q steel laminates I've been using from Parts Express. FWIW, there's a pretty big difference in the bass. After an hour or so of listening I put some Super Q's into the circuit to see what it would sound like, and though still very good, sounded lean in comparison, and not nearly as full bodied and tight as the air cores. I've had the beasts laying around for a long time, and I'm glad I finally found use for them. I didn't expect to hear a difference, wasn't even listening for it, but it was pretty obvious.
His reaction is the same as mine only I feel its likely that the North Creeks are better yet due to their vacuum Varnish process and no micro fractures due to high tension winding.
Still as I said I'd take cheaper Solen Air Cores over any Iron Core.
Don't think the tweeters wouldn't benefit from large cores ?
Better think again, small AWG's appear to sound lean just as well. My .16mH 8AWG's are now $55 each 10AWG would be $32 the performance is as much as the Ti Tweeter itself IMO. After a try out with a 14AWG Litz I went back to the North Creek and regardless of the better specs of the Litz the North Creek with the Ti Tweeters was far more natural with fuller body and I haven't even looked back! Just no comparison.
While caps all have a signature and some better than others the inductors give more in return IMO for the investment. They are just to taken for granted.
SET12
. Getting them up about 10" or so does help a lot. This forum is a wealth of info and inspiration that is greatly appreciated.
