• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Hi-Fi...What Is The Goal?

The goal? To enhance my quality of life through great music, played through a great stereo.

Oh, you mean with the stereo itself. ;) Definitely the music..
 
It's not quite chicken and the egg, as music existed before gear.
I think of you are a musician, it would be more about the music and less about the gear.
As I am not a musician, it's about 50:50 right now, but I keep reminding myself, the gear only exists to play music, not the other way around.

cheers.

Sir, sometimes it's about the gear. I have Asymmetrical Hearing Loss (loss is different in each ear), diagnosed some 32 years ago. With my mostly mid-fi purchases I had accepted a certain amount of mediocrity, the Tinnutus masked much. Upgrading 1 source to digital awoke extra detail, so I continued. After a couple of years I've rediscovered details with retro-fi that gets past the constant ringing in my skull. For private enjoyment I've invested in Sennheiser ear buds, once again awakening quality that I hadn't experienced since I was 22.

I love the music, and the gear is helping me enjoy it.
 
My favorite setup, was positioned in such a way that I suppose is just plain wrong fidelity wise. I positioned it, not so I was in the room with a stage in front of me, but carefully and tediously changed it so that I was on the stage, and the lead singer and most of the instruments were to my right, and the crowd was in front of us.

Using that as a metaphor or whatever the right term is, I'd say I'm definitely more about making the music sound right to me, but also love the tinkering involved in this hobby. Its never having a better system, but the journey to improving my system that's been a joy to me on the gear side of things. The failure, work (more time really), and mistakes really sweeten success. It does feel pretty good to gawk at your stuff with a beer every once and awhile to though, not because its the ultimate or anything. I just think I've got some really cool gear, and appreciate the thought put into it.
 
Personally I understand why people would enjoy collecting vintage audio stuff just for the heck of it, almost all brands have gorgeous pieces of gear that don't necessarily have to break the bank and look outstanding in any room of the household. Sure, Tandberg, Adcom, NAD or Revox are not exactly the ones that come to my mind =P

On the other hand I definitely don't relate to that modus operandi, even good looking units need to please the ears as much as the eyes and they may be beautiful but if they sound subpar than it's a no-go but something is also true, not everyone demands the same sound quality when they listen to their favorite albums and gear quality can rapidly descend on the priorities ladder leaving cosmetics up there.
 
All of the above.
Trying to determine the true goal is like trying to squeeze water under your thumb.
Very diverse group of hobbyist and backgrounds will determine their own goal ans so be it.......
 
My goal for a high-fidelity playback system is to be able to hear all of what is on my recordings.

My goal for a musical playback system is to present what is on my recordings in the most musically pleasing manner.

I personally have no need for live volume levels, nor a "they are here" presentation, nor for life-sized imaging. I am not trying to re-create a concert, unlike many folks here. I feel that saves me from a lot of frustration, and maybe about a hundred thousand dollars.

To each their own. :)
 
I was a musician for 15 years of my younger life and had to give it up to make a good living. So for me my sound system is to reproduce music faithfully enough to return to those days when I was younger, to some degree. Later on I was a recording engineer among other things and I want to produce the faithful sound of those original events I recorded. With the love of music and attending live concerts was another source of great enjoyment, so the sound system has to recreate that sound, too. As you can tell I have a love of live sound events. I am not saying I don't enjoy studio created music, but its not my first love. So many of todays systems really don't get my heart beating. I don't want to hear sterile recordings or recordings made with 48 microphones and 32 channels mixed into multi channel mono. I don't want sound spread all around a room that takes away from the definition I desire. No, I want to hear real natural reproduction of music as I might hear, at a live concert with out PA amplification.
 
My goals are a little less puristic than some, especially compared with those in the high dollar range. I live too remote to be chasing down equipment and then trying to get them to ship here, and besides my budget wont allow for modern equipment which, if enough money is spent on, becomes harder for vintage to compete with. What I have I have owned since new over 40 years ago so there is also a strong sentimental value on them, and this equipment is big and heavy enough to make it impossible to ever sell here or anywhere else even if I wanted to (I don't).

So for me it is more about making what I have the best IT can be, including rebuilding components, experimenting with layout and room acoustics, improving the source with a new DAC and cartridge for my TT etc etc. Trying to coax out the best sound this equipment is capable of is my goal, (that and enjoying music) so my investment will carry on until it doesn't matter anymore.
 
An amazing system is nothing if you can't enjoy amazing music on it, IMO, so music always has to come first for me. That being said, I want my music to sound the best that it can and I enjoy experimenting with different gear.
You are describing a conundrum, a vicious circle, a catch 22, chicken or the egg sort of thing.. :dunno: Of course one watch by night, one watch by day.. If you get confused listen to the music play! :banana:
 
I'm of the opinion that it is impossible to make recorded music sound "live", for the simple reason that it isn't. I can't re-create a concert in my front room, even with music that was recorded live. There isn't enough space, there aren't several hundred(or thousand) people around me, and my speakers can't move enough air. I accepted that fact long ago. And studio recordings can never, EVER sound live. Many times, the band didn't even play a whole SONG together in the studio, much less an entire album. Most studio recordings are a combination of several 'takes', processed to sound a certain way. What you wind up with is an engineer's interpretation of what the producer tells him the band wants it to sound like. They can't know what gear anyone is going to use to play it back through, or how room acoustics will change the nature of the recording. Even if I had all the same equipment they used to master an individual record/cd, my front room has different acoustics than the studio. I probably don't even have the same brand of headphones the engineer used. To say my rig sounds live is just so much self-delusion.

I like music, but it doesn't just happen, it takes gear. The most that I can realistically hope for is that the gear I have chosen is capable of reproducing recorded sound of such fidelity as is pleasing to me. And if my listening session today was any indicator, I have achieved my goal. This doesn't mean I can't make it sound better, whether by tweaking things or adding new gear, just that I can't find enough to complain about to make me want to. Yet...
 
I'm of the opinion that it is impossible to make recorded music sound "live", for the simple reason that it isn't. I can't re-create a concert in my front room, even with music that was recorded live. There isn't enough space, there aren't several hundred(or thousand) people around me, and my speakers can't move enough air. I accepted that fact long ago. And studio recordings can never, EVER sound live. Many times, the band didn't even play a whole SONG together in the studio, much less an entire album. Most studio recordings are a combination of several 'takes', processed to sound a certain way. What you wind up with is an engineer's interpretation of what the producer tells him the band wants it to sound like. They can't know what gear anyone is going to use to play it back through, or how room acoustics will change the nature of the recording. Even if I had all the same equipment they used to master an individual record/cd, my front room has different acoustics than the studio. I probably don't even have the same brand of headphones the engineer used. To say my rig sounds live is just so much self-delusion.

I like music, but it doesn't just happen, it takes gear. The most that I can realistically hope for is that the gear I have chosen is capable of reproducing recorded sound of such fidelity as is pleasing to me. And if my listening session today was any indicator, I have achieved my goal. This doesn't mean I can't make it sound better, whether by tweaking things or adding new gear, just that I can't find enough to complain about to make me want to. Yet...


justjed2: Welcome to AK.

Because I don’t attend live rock concerts, I don’t know what a particular model of electric guitar, associated amp (equipped with particular tubes), and associated speakers sound like. (I’m certain there are people who can identify the sound of specific electronic instruments.) And I’m not sure if there is a “typical” performance venue for rock music in which the sound would be regarded as “natural”. So I don’t have the experience (or interest) to judge whether or not a live rock concert sounds “live” or “natural” when reproduced by a home hi-fi system.

OTOH, I do regularly attend live classical music concerts in a world class symphony hall, and live opera performances in a world class opera house, and therefore I know what natural orchestral instruments sound like when performing in their intended venue. I’m not sure how to interpret your statement that music “doesn't just happen, it takes gear”. By “gear” do you mean the natural (unamplified) human voice (such as in an opera house), and non-electronic musical instruments like a trumpet and viola? Or, by “gear” do you mean electronic equipment? Classical music in its purest form is performed with no electronic equipment. (The use of sound reinforcement or “acoustic enhancement” for classical music performed in a well designed symphony hall or opera house is very controversial – i.e., generally frowned on by purists. In the unusual case where classical music is performed in an outdoor venue, then a PA system must be used, and I wouldn’t characterize the resulting sound as “natural”.) While my memory of how a violin sounds may be imperfect, I don’t think that it’s “self-delusional” to conclude that a good recording of a violin played on a good-hi-fi system sounds “live”.

As I pointed out earlier, I’ve never heard a recording and hi-fi system that could perfectly reproduce the sound of a large scale orchestra in my living room. Therefore, my goal for my hi-fi systems is to deliver an accurate and enjoyable facsimile of classical music in my listening room, based on what I recall hearing in the symphony hall or opera house. (This goal is easier to achieve for a string quartet than a large scale orchestra.)

Switching gears to studio recordings of pop music, your comments match what I have read elsewhere – i.e., that often pop music is created by producers and engineers by blending together recordings of musicians in different cities at different times. And in some cases sounds are created by electronic synthesizers. And sometimes electronic tools are used to change the sound (sometimes deliberately introducing distortion). And then often the dynamic range is compressed so that the recording can be heard on a car radio or cheap earbuds. With many pop studio recordings there never was a “live performance”, so I think there is less relevance for the concept of a recording sounding “live” or “high fidelity”.

I respect the fact that art is deeply personal and different people like different types of music. With that said, for me the concept of high-fidelity reproduction is more relevant for classical music because I know (based on my imperfect memory) what a live performance sounds like (at least in my local venues).

Our standards for what represents “high fidelity” sound reproduction evolve. (I own several 1930s era TOTL radios that say “High Fidelity” right on the front.) However the benchmark for reproduction of classical music doesn’t change, because we have a pretty good idea of what natural orchestral instruments sound like – bearing in mind that there may be differences in the live sound based on the acoustics of the concert hall where the music was performed.

That’s my 2 cents.
 
Last edited:
is finding the ultimate combinations of tone, precision, detail, and the ability to detect every instrument playing its part. the better all of that is, the closer to hifi you are.

tone and fullness can be compromised to achieve detail and clarity in some applications.

low-fi will give you a "general idea" of what a song sounds like.

hi-fi will show you what you thought was a simple guitar strum was actually fluttering between several+ notes
 
Perhaps I should have said that the REPRODUCTION of music takes gear. And I probably should have pointed out that I listen in only two channels, which obviously colors my sentiments But trying to reproduce the sound of live music in an environment such as 'my front room'(or wherever), is impossible(imho), simply because it's not live. I enjoy classical music as well, but I have no illusions of making a classical recording sound live. I just hope my equipment in my room can make it sound good. I normally listen to studio recordings of various genres of rock music. But, due to the constraints of budget, technology, and architecture, I feel that it's an exercise in futility to try to reproduce a concert in my listening room. I've been to many rock concerts, and I just don't think that there is any way to reproduce the effects of the mass of bodies, the differing spatial/acoustic environments of an arena or concert hall, or the outright power of all those speakers pushing that much air, with only two channels. Still, that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy the sound I get from the gear I have, and to me, that is the ultimate goal.
 
My goal is to be happy with my system and the way it sounds and not worry about what other people say about it.If it sounds good to you then it is good.I like have having cool gear too and it just so happens that the cool sounds great as well.
 
We are rather complex critters with numerous motivations, some of which can conflict. The things in our home are accordingly likely to serve a number of purposes and roles. In this case, we are talking about Hi Fi systems, which obviously provide sound, most often music. We can use music in our homes in quite a number of ways, often in different ways at different times: to energize, to relax, to party, just to mention three of many. In addition, Hi Fi systems as objects are things we place in our home, we may look at them, clean them, fix them, move them, describe them to others, hide them, and many other things. What a Hi Fi systems is and does as a part of any given person's life will be in many ways unique to him, and almost certainly will be many things at once, not just this or just that.

Now, Gryphon, can we have more of your thoughts on all this?
 
Back
Top Bottom