I Rebuild Marantz website

[Mooselini]

As promised I received my item from Robert today! Did the heat from applied internet pressure do the trick? Probably. Mike.

I know there is a lot of frustration in this thread so I wanted to share a little positive news also. I received an E-mail from Robert today saying he will definitely ship this weekend the receiver I bought from him. Based on the feedback on his website and comments I've seen in other forums I believe he does good work. I'm no repair tech so I won't know from looking at it exactly what he replaced/fixed but I'll post some nudes once I get it from him. Hang in there - maybe he is re-energized for the new year and is cleaning up his backlog

 

[slowpat]

[Rant begin]

I'm posting in response to the low cost of caps ($20 -$30) per unit vs. the final cost. It will take 10-20 hours to PROPERLY clean, recap, re-relay, re-lampo, re-vellum adjust and align a receiver. At minimum wage of about $7.50 (from memory) that's $75 to $150 more. Who out there in the real world does a skilled function for that? Auto repair labor rates per hour is more in line with $60/hour. At that rate I could ask $600 per unit and eat the parts cost and labor over 10 hours! I'm just saying have some compassion on us who do techie work even on the side as I do.

[Rant end]

I agree with you 1000%. I would say ALL of the techs that take on restoration work do it mostly out of love for vintage gear. Electronics repair shops DO charge $30-$40 to put on the bench + $60/hr to "repair" your equipment. They will almost never "recap" the whole amp or receiver (economic suicide - will be a $600 machine after a recap at the shop.)

 

[rBuckner]

Thanks slowpat, appreciated that. You anywhere near my native Alameda?

 

[ChrisMarantz]

[Rant begin]

I'm posting in response to the low cost of caps ($20 -$30) per unit vs. the final cost. It will take 10-20 hours to PROPERLY clean, recap, re-relay, re-lampo, re-vellum adjust and align a receiver. At minimum wage of about $7.50 (from memory) that's $75 to $150 more. Who out there in the real world does a skilled function for that? Auto repair labor rates per hour is more in line with $60/hour. At that rate I could ask $600 per unit and eat the parts cost and labor over 10 hours! I'm just saying have some compassion on us who do techie work even on the side as I do.

[Rant end]

Thanks for letting me vent.

P.S. I never ask for any money until all work is completed, I don't think that is fair!

Working on just a single brand of equipment should allow a tech to gain enough familiarity with each model to turn the units around more quickly than 10-20 bench hours. While every unit will have its own unique and individual issues, each unit of the same model will require many of the same repairs/refurbishments. The exceptions to this are typically units which have been "repaired" by someone else but still don't work.

The biggest problem usually is that there are many great business people and there are many great repair techs, however there are very few that are great at both.

 

[slowpat]

Thanks slowpat, appreciated that. You anywhere near my native Alameda?

15 min away in Castro Valley...

 

[Layoutpad]

[Rant begin]

I'm posting in response to the low cost of caps ($20 -$30) per unit vs. the final cost. It will take 10-20 hours to PROPERLY clean, recap, re-relay, re-lampo, re-vellum adjust and align a receiver. At minimum wage of about $7.50 (from memory) that's $75 to $150 more. Who out there in the real world does a skilled function for that? Auto repair labor rates per hour is more in line with $60/hour. At that rate I could ask $600 per unit and eat the parts cost and labor over 10 hours! I'm just saying have some compassion on us who do techie work even on the side as I do.

[Rant end]

Thanks for letting me vent.

P.S. I never ask for any money until all work is completed, I don't think that is fair!

@rBuckner

I think you missed the point of my "rant"
A great (and honorable) tech is a gift from God to a vintage audio collector/music lover.

I have no problem paying $300-600 per piece to have them properly re-capped/restored/serviced.
The sleezoid from McKinney I referenced handed me a bull story about the high cost of parts and never bothered actually putting them in.

Just today my friend and I opened the hood on one of my Sony TA-2000F pre-amps that blew a channel last week.

The above mentioned (expletive deleted) charged me $475.00 to to re-cap and "restore" it about 6 months ago and after just 10-15 hours of play it failed.

He put a few new caps on the power supply board and a couple on the left amp board. They were not the correct caps but a hodge-podge of series(ed)
caps and the Sony is back in the sick bay with a dead channel.

The main caps were not replaced nor any of the other caps/transistors and like I said, he charged $475.00. I was glad to pay it when I thought he was doing the proper job.

Now I only have about another 25 or so amps/receivers that will have to be re-repaired. That's what the rant is about.

Just getting tired of being ripped-off:tears:.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Accuphase.....P-300 amp / Sony TA2000 pre-amp
Audionics…....BT-2 pre-amp / SAE 2300 amp
Classé..........Cap-151
HKardon........HK730 / 930
Holfi………..…..Integra 5.1 amp / Xara CD transport
Kenwood.......KA-907, KA-801 / KT-615
Luxman........R-1120
Marantz........2230, 2240B, 2250, 2270, 2285B, 2325, 4240, 4270, 4300, 4400
Nikko............Alpha II amp / Beta II pre-amp (Silver)
Onkyo...........M-508 Amp / Perreaux SX1 pre-amp
Parasound......HCA 2200II AMP / Sir Byrd passive pre-amp
Pioneer..........SA-9500II / TX 9500II, SX1250, SX1010, SX980, SX950, 9930
Rotel.............RB-991AMP / Acurus L10 pre-amp
Sansui...........9090 / 990DB / AU717
Sony.............TA-3200 amp / 2000F pre-amp (x2), STR-6065, 7065, STR-V7
Yamaha........CR-1020 / 2020 / 3020

DAC's............Music Hall 25.2,,Music Hall 25.3, PS Audio DLIII, Xindak 5,
....................Fubar IV, Firestone Audio TubeHead pre-amp

Speakers........Pioneer HPM-1500's, HPM-900's, Klipsch Forte II's,
………………..KG-2's, Infinity RS1000, JBL 4412A / S-38's, Ohm Model L,
....................Norman Labs Model 8's, "New" Large Advents & KEF 103.2's

 

[rBuckner]

Layoutpad...

Yes I'm sorry I was so insensitive. You were indeed ripped off.

I've had folks contact me about doing full recaps and all adjustments and when I quote $175 plus shipping I usually only get 10% of the jobs. The folks I have done work for are very happy and offer to be references. That's what tripped my fuse along with having a rough day at work... a poor excuse though on my part.

I also read from another AKer where a tech should be able to "turn" a unit in under 10 hours once familiar with it. Just doing the repairs, recapping and adjustments maybe. But deep cleaning, re-velluming Marantzes, polishing phono jack shells, full contact cleaning and more added in take ME longer. So you're correct that I'm a poor business man. I really ought to go official and advertize here on AK but I'm preferring to keep it as a hobby for now while I work full time as I'll never make enough to quit the day job. It's worth it to be satisfied the units are the best and cleanest and reliable as I can make them however. For sure nobody makes me do anything, I choose it. It's well worth it! Thanks for responding, I appreciate it.

 

[avionic]

I'm not making excuses for anyone but . Speaking from my personal position.
I do a little repair side work..Some days though ,I may only be able to get a couple hours in at most. Some of us are fortunate to have a "daytime job". Which is my case. Lately 50-60-70 hours a week has been the norm.Just saying , there may be other issues at play.
PS. I've seen some of Tom's (catrafters) work. If I had a Marantz and was not capable of doing it myself. Tom would be the first person I'd talk to.

 

[Punker X]

Some of us are fortunate to have a "daytime job". Which is my case. Lately 50-60-70 hours a week.

Some of us are lucky enough to not have a daytime job and do what we love, not working for the "Man"....

 

[avionic]

Some of us are lucky enough to not have a daytime job and do what we love, not working for the "Man"....

Hear ya..Fortunately "the man" pays pretty good for this area.

 

[ChrisMarantz]

Some of us are lucky enough to not have a daytime job and do what we love, not working for the "Man"....

:thmbsp:+1

 

[IRM Rob]

Hello everyone and I appreciate the opportunity to address some of these posts. Normally I don’t spend time on bulletin boards simply because I don’t have the time. Plus I don’t really feel that it’s beneficial to nay say or argue about what I do and/or how I run my IRM website. I certainly don’t feel that sitting here throwing out excuses is of any help either. But I do at least want to address the things I have read in this thread due to the fact that hearsay and incorrect information can do damage to my reputation. I was informed of this thread by a customer who is also one of your members.
First let me start out by letting you all in on some facts about IRM. It was started as a hobby site, a completely DIY site. I did it as a project one Sunday as an exercise in web design work mostly to keep from becoming rusty. At the time I was fully employed as a contract engineer/tech (hardware) for a local aerospace R&D company in Grass Valley. But as the economy dried up, so did the jobs in the area. During this time, people began to notice my website and ask me about all sorts of things re Marantz gear and among these emails, I began to get requests to do the work I described in my DIY pages. It was much welcomed work as I transitioned out of the corporate world and into becoming my own boss. I had repaired not only hundreds of consumer, midfi and hi-fi as well as professional audio and video gear over the years and also Marantz gear. I found I loved the Marantz gear, not only to work on but also because of how it sounded. We had a 2235B in our family for years. It was the first to be restored by IRM.
I am now in my 4th year of restoration work. The commerce site started in 2009. I am now working pretty much 7 days a week, wearing all the hats of the business. If I were to figure it out, I’m sure I make less than $5 an hour. I used to make over $40 an hour as an engineer. But this is what I love to do. In answer to questions here, yes: I have taken deposits and created a business from this source of money. I also shed an alcoholic wife of 23 years. Sadly a good portion of the deposit money that I would have much preferred to use to build the business has gone to deal with these issues. So why do I take deposits? First of all, because of the cost of shipping and what the market for this kind of work will bear, I have to keep my prices low. Quoting someone $500 before shipping is pretty much a deal breaker. But more importantly, because I am a one man show, I simply don’t have the time to keep track of people coming in and out of my queue. I’ve tried it. When I started out, I didn’t require a deposit. People were in and out of my queue daily. I spent more time updating my data than working at the bench. So I tried a refundable deposit. Suddenly I became an ATM machine. People would decide a month or so into the waiting period that they needed that 100 bucks for something else. I’m not a bank. So I ended up with a NON refundable deposit. People still knock my door down. Am I holding a gun to their heads to sign up? I’m simply trying to help everyone I can. I honestly wish I could restore these receivers faster but you can’t rush glue drying, burn-in for infant mortality of parts, etc. I had to slow people down and get the serious ones. That’s the deposit as it stands today. Don’t like it? Don’t do business with me. I’m sorry, but I prefer to do business with those who really want a serious restoration. But I’m only one guy, folks. I mean, who actually solders EVERY circuit board, EVERY connection? Do you know of a tech that does? What does HE charge? As to answering emails, I do my best to answer them all. I get hundreds a week, from all over the world. Heaven forbid I have to bail for a weekend to get some relief and I don’t get back to some people right away. I sure try to but if anyone has ever known what it’s like to get back from vacation and have to answer hundreds of emails. Nuff said. As for the missing stereo hearsay, I HAVE NEVER LOST ANYONE’S GEAR. As to the piggyback parts—mismatched parts? You have me confused with someone else. What pisses me off is the BS suggesting you know better—nitpicking little things. I’ve rebuilt hundreds of these receivers. How many have YOU rebuilt? Many of these would be in a landfill right now.
As for NTE, well let’s see. I’ve only been using them for more than 25 years with consistency. They are always available (other suppliers dry up—parts become unavailable, etc.) and they always work properly. I can spend my days at the computer researching parts all day or I can be at the bench. I know what works and I stick with it. As an electronics guy, I’ll admit I’m not the best businessman. I’m not the best at customer communications. Sorry, I hate phones. But I’m here for those that want a solid restoration and that is what I have been doing and plan to do in the future. As much as I would like to be able to break the supply and demand equation, I can’t. I’ve only got me and what I can do in the 24 hours that we get in a day--and I've pretty much given up my private life. But you can count on me being here to do this work, maybe late in emails, but I’ll be here. Don’t like the parts I use, I always offer to install what anyone wants (so long as I don’t have to cut metal). Ask me, don’t flame here with a bunch of hearsay. Email me. I’ll respond—as soon as I catch up from the freakin’ holidays!! RB Oh, and BTW, PayPal's 45 day deal is only for tangible goods and not service related businesses. You won't prevail in a dispute for the deposit. Just thought I'd let everyone know.

 

[tarior]

I'll say without shame that I am one of your more vocal critics. I also run a working repair shop, and the only one within a hundred miles that will do restoration work as well as general repairs.
I'm not critical just to be a nitpick, I want folks to know what I know. Here are few my main concerns.

NTE transistors are overpriced, and the specs are pretty general at best. Why put in a probably correct NTE part when you can get one that's pretty near exact from Toshiba, ON or Fairchild?
As far as I am concerned, there is no reason to cross leg a transistor.

Using no name capacitors is begging for trouble. And what kind of life can one expect from them? Good Nichicon and Panasonic caps are only a little more $.

RadioShack chemicals. After a few years, the lubricants in RadioShack tuner cleaner/lube turns to wax that no contact cleaner will touch. The switch or whatever will have to be disassembled and the wax cleaned out by mechanical means.


I don't know about you, but I am always trying to improve my game. Occasionally I look back on things I did several years ago, when I was still doing this as a hobby, and kind of cringe.
There is an awful lot that can be learned from the guru-techs here on AK, and I have even seen them up their game over the years. Nobody is ever too good to try and get better at what they do.

 

[IRM Rob]

I am VERY NTSB like when it comes to my work. Improvement is what it's all about. NTE is available and like I said, I've used them for over 25 years with consistency. If I had my way, sure I would use whatever was considered BEST for every part. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time to constantly research who's available, what parts will work in what situations, etc. This is a full time job. When I know I can use an NTE part in the situation without fail, without worry, with consistency, I use it. Who cares if they are "overpriced". That's an opinion. They solve my problems and ultimately I save from not having to research and procure parts. I get NTE from Mouser who guarantees their parts are from the sources indicated. The web is full of counterfeit parts. Better safe than sorry. I'm not sure where you get your info, again this hearsay issue. I buy Nichicon, United-Chemicon, Cornell-Dubilier, Panasonic and Xicon caps ONLY. I buy from Mouser almost exclusively who, again, guarantee their parts' sources. They do a very large volume so their stuff doesn't sit on shelves either. I'm not sure where you get your info on Rat Shack cleaner either. I've used it on many restorations over the years. Mostly on my early work as i use a different cleaner/lube now, however those restorations are still out there working away just fine. My daily use 2225 hasn't given me a single problem with regard to the pots or switches and it was cleaned probably 5 years ago with Rat Shack cleaner/lube. Again, I won't recommend something unless I have thorougly tested it out myself. But as far as why it's on the site, is because i would much rather people find a Radio Shack and use that cleaner than to use something like WD40. Most people have a Rat Shack nearby. Seems your concerns with my work are not much at all... My questions for you: what type of solder do you use, what type of flux, and do you solder every solder connection in your restorations? I use silver eutectic solder (62/36/2) with rosin flux only. I solder EVERY solder connection in each receiver I do. RB

 

[IRM Rob]

and for crossing a leg on a part: so what! If that's what you are concerned about, than I DO call that nitpicking. The part is correct for the situation, works perfectly electronically. That's all that needs to be said. Find a better solution and I'd be happy to update my site. RB

 

[tarior]

First off, I'd like to say that restoration is an overused word, I think refurbishment is probably the more appropriate term.

With regard to NTE, I don't care to quote anybody, so I'll just link you to the search I did here and let you draw your own conclusions.
http://www.google.com/custom?client...org&hl=en&q=nte&sitesearch=www.audiokarma.org

The Ratshack tuner cleaner problem is from my own experience. And I have had some bad experience with NTE myself, though I have had to use NTE labelled monolithic ICs a time or two. Last resort type thing. Never for discreet transistors.

I almost exclusively use Nichicon low impedance, high temperature capacitors in my refurb and repair work. I don't resolder every joint, but I do examine them all and will shotgun a section of a hot running board (or even the whole thing) rather than try and pick out the cracked joints. I only use 63/37 and brush on flux, but solder type is really a preference thing and not that critical, IMO. I just like the way it flows.

Honestly if I'm pressed for time and don't feel like spending an hour googleing and studying datasheets, I just do a search here and see what Mark or Glenn are using for substitute semiconductors. Though I have found a few devices that I prefer over what they use for my own reasons. I still can't think of a good reason to cross leg a transistor, except as a very last resort.

The whole deal with taking deposits is between you and your customers. I think folks would be well advised to read what you wrote here and make up their own minds.

 

[KrisM]

Being a fan of Marantz gear I've been watching this thread and was going to comment on a post by Layoutpad(I think), but it seems to have been deleted. AK is a pretty positive place and I don't like these extra negative threads. I got involved int one about LPgear. I didn't like it, but poor business practices get me pretty steamed.
I think taking a deposit and then telling people that they have no right to a refund after a large amount of time is garbage. I get it that running a business is tough, and taking a deposit and then having to refund it a week later is a pain. But when no communication is made about the deposit "system" you cannot expect people to wait years on that deposit. Adding in that those deposits were used for personal reasons is beyond garbage. I worked as a cabinet maker for a guy who was always doing the "deposit shuffle". I got stuck in the middle of it with customers and hated it. Eventually I noticed the pattern. He also did it with payday. A cheque written on a Friday would bounce on Tuesday, but he'd have new wheels/tires put on his truck that weekend. He would try and get out of payday close to Christmas, but all of a sudden his kid would have a new dirt bike. There was always an excuse. When I finally quit, it took 7 weeks to get my final cheque. I only got it because I found out he had been working at another job(while he was supposed to running his company) and showed up and made a big show in front of his "new" boss and co-workers.
I appreciate that you have personal issues, and I applaud the fact that you came here to offer an opinion, but I'll echo Layoupad and say you should offer deposit refunds to those waiting a large amount of time.

 

[tarior]

One thing I forgot to address. When I start getting overloaded here, I stop accepting new work. I really hate to disappoint someone by turning down their project, but when the backlog is approaching a year (for me right now), that's just what you have to do.

 

[hoaryhag]

:thumbsdn::thmbsp::sigh::scratch2:
I gained an overall picture of taking apart and cleaning a Marantz with the help of Rob's website. I joined Audiokarma to figure out the rest. My 2230 is still humming along nicely. Thx guys.

 

[sparky1116]

:thumbsdn::thmbsp::sigh::scratch2:
I gained an overall picture of taking apart and cleaning a Marantz with the help of Rob's website.

Credit where due, same here. I've spent a great deal of time studying the 2235b restoration page, which got me through the relamp, and will probably help me a bit with the amp module rebuild.

Thanks for that.