If McIntosh didn't exist, what brand would you be loyal to?
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Levinson
twiiii
Lunatic Member
The problem with Hafler and Crown is they need full tune ups every ten to 15 years. ARC everytime you need to replace tubes the amp needs a full going over. I don't think there is anything out there thats is equivalent to Mac and has the long life expectancy. I guess my first choice would be Accuphase. They have the technology, great design and very careful and well though assembly processes. They have Quad balanced amps and Class A amps, too. I much prefer their digital room EQ and of course Mac doesn't build a electronic crossover that Accuphase does. No they don't build TT's but thats OK with me. They did build great CD/SACD players. But I haven't checked out their dacs. The problem with Accuphase is if you think Mac is expensive you have never priced Accuphase or Boulder or some of the other esoteric brands. Speakers would be the most difficult for me to choose. Probably JBL dd67000, as Snell is gone, Klipsch just doesn't have the bass extension, and most other speakers are dynamically challenged. I could get by with 100 watts per channel with the JBL's.
If I had tons of money I would choose Magico. but here again you need big power. But I do like the sound they produce. They make the only dome metal tweeter I can tolerate. But I would need the JBL as I don't like point source designed systems and the JBL uses horns to control directivity. They uses Mac's patened magnetic structure to drive the woofers and a sandwiched cone similar to Magico for even lower distortion just like Mac does for its latest speakers. So I guess it would be Clear audio TT's, they make Macs tables, Accuphase for electronics, DAC and disc player and JBL for speakers and Dynavector cartridges. Though if I were fabulously rich I would like a M9 speakers and 4 MC 1.2 K's. But I will settle for a pair of MC 830's for my XRT 28's next year. 500 watts is plenty across 4 ohms.
If I had tons of money I would choose Magico. but here again you need big power. But I do like the sound they produce. They make the only dome metal tweeter I can tolerate. But I would need the JBL as I don't like point source designed systems and the JBL uses horns to control directivity. They uses Mac's patened magnetic structure to drive the woofers and a sandwiched cone similar to Magico for even lower distortion just like Mac does for its latest speakers. So I guess it would be Clear audio TT's, they make Macs tables, Accuphase for electronics, DAC and disc player and JBL for speakers and Dynavector cartridges. Though if I were fabulously rich I would like a M9 speakers and 4 MC 1.2 K's. But I will settle for a pair of MC 830's for my XRT 28's next year. 500 watts is plenty across 4 ohms.
Logan_Nolag
Active Member
Maybe Benchmark but their product offerings are much more limited and their build quality isn't as good. They are made in the US however so there is that. Honestly nothing really compares in my opinion.
McIntosh has for me been a modestly priced line with excellent quality and engineering. I feel that getting better performance than McIntosh typically costs much much more or trades quality.
Pretty much the same reason I’ve continued to return to my Mercedes dealer, ... solid and reliable without paying the stratospheric prices for better performance.
Pretty much the same reason I’ve continued to return to my Mercedes dealer, ... solid and reliable without paying the stratospheric prices for better performance.
BillWojo
Addicted Member
@twiiii , Audio Research has fixed a lot of issues concerning reliability that were problems in the older series of power amps. You seem to want to beat this drum every time a mention of Audio Research comes up. I'm getting tired of it.
Look in the Tube forum for a post that Dave G made on bringing an ARC D115 to life, this was an early unit known to have problems. Dave identified and fixed every issue so it runs reliable now just as ARC did on later models.
ARC was on the forefront of tube technology when everyone had given up on it, including McIntosh. They were pushing the boundary's and introducing new ideas and yes, they had some issues but they cleaned them up.
Given unlimited funds I would rather have a state of the art ARC preamp/amp combo than anything that McIntosh builds and I am a McIntosh fan.
For a preamp I use a ARC SP8MKII and MC40 monoblocks as amps. It's a wonderful combination.
BillWojo
Look in the Tube forum for a post that Dave G made on bringing an ARC D115 to life, this was an early unit known to have problems. Dave identified and fixed every issue so it runs reliable now just as ARC did on later models.
ARC was on the forefront of tube technology when everyone had given up on it, including McIntosh. They were pushing the boundary's and introducing new ideas and yes, they had some issues but they cleaned them up.
Given unlimited funds I would rather have a state of the art ARC preamp/amp combo than anything that McIntosh builds and I am a McIntosh fan.
For a preamp I use a ARC SP8MKII and MC40 monoblocks as amps. It's a wonderful combination.
BillWojo
gizzyman47
Addicted Member
I've always had a soft spot for Accuphase. Gorgeous aesthetics and build. Also Audio Research is a great American Company. I own an amp and pre-amp of theirs. Nice stuff!
Porthos
Active Member
Luxman or Accuphase. Both considered the Japanese McIntosh. Possibly Ear Yoshino but all the EL509/519 sweeps are pretty much gone 
.
Accuphase, formerly of Kensonic/Trio/Kenwood. When Sansui, Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony, Onkyo, Denon were all still major players only Accuphase engineered their products like McIntosh and kept their lineup consistently so. They are still around and still producing gems but what they don't have is the same speaker protection that McIntosh has, no company that I know of does.
Luxman - Always right up there with Accuphase however their lineup always has been more diverse with occasional blemishes. In the 70's they were more of a premium well-heeled brand with better sound than most Japanese products and the 80's were a dark time with bad management decisions however their top of the line products have always been competitive. In the past 10-20 years they have returned to form and are pumping out great products, but have more products to appeal to multiple price points which is something McIntosh and Accuphase don't do as often. Also, for vacuum tube products they are the main player in Japan and I believe they wind their own transformers just like McIntosh. I have the CL-38 and MA-88's and their build quality is unmatched.
Since McIntosh exists I say McIntosh but I have Luxman tube amps for build quality and rarity, I don't plan on giving them up for that reason and would otherwise own MC275's or MC225's.
.Accuphase, formerly of Kensonic/Trio/Kenwood. When Sansui, Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony, Onkyo, Denon were all still major players only Accuphase engineered their products like McIntosh and kept their lineup consistently so. They are still around and still producing gems but what they don't have is the same speaker protection that McIntosh has, no company that I know of does.
Luxman - Always right up there with Accuphase however their lineup always has been more diverse with occasional blemishes. In the 70's they were more of a premium well-heeled brand with better sound than most Japanese products and the 80's were a dark time with bad management decisions however their top of the line products have always been competitive. In the past 10-20 years they have returned to form and are pumping out great products, but have more products to appeal to multiple price points which is something McIntosh and Accuphase don't do as often. Also, for vacuum tube products they are the main player in Japan and I believe they wind their own transformers just like McIntosh. I have the CL-38 and MA-88's and their build quality is unmatched.
Since McIntosh exists I say McIntosh but I have Luxman tube amps for build quality and rarity, I don't plan on giving them up for that reason and would otherwise own MC275's or MC225's.
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You should stop spreading misinformation about Audio Research. What you have said is totally inaccurate. You like McIntosh and that's perfectly fine. However, saying that replacing the tubes in an ARC requires a "full going over" is totally false. ARC products, particularity their preamps, are just as reliable as the stuff from McIntosh. Everything man made will fail at some point. If that were not the case, we wouldn't have any McIntosh service centers, would we?
Yes, ARC runs tubes a little harder. That said, if you stay on top of tube replacements, and don't run them until they die, and don't buy junk tubes, there won't be any issues. Problems occur when people do not follow the recommendation in the manual to replace tubes at X number of hours and/or install tubes that don't hold up as well to the more aggressive bias.
Replacing the tubes in an Audio Research preamp, DAC, or CD player is plug and play. Some of their amps can be more challenging to bias. Most are very simple. A small number of models require input tube bias adjustments; this is an area that can catch people off guard and does require tightly matched tube pairs. The main point is, this isn't some complicated science project. The upkeep on ARC components shouldn't be a concern to any potential buyer.
Now to address the OP's question...
When I really got into this hobby about 16 years ago, I jumped into the deep end of the pool immediately. Straight to separates and McIntosh. Looking back I do wonder if a portion of the affinity I have had for McIntosh is tied to it being the first brand I owned. If it had been Krell, Conrad Johnson, etc.... would it have been those instead? My enthusiasm for McIntosh has had ups and downs. What I can say is, that in all the time I have been in the hobby, I have never not had at least one McIntosh component; that fact remains true to this day.
Circling back to my reference to ups and downs on my enthusiasms for the brand. I am definitely in a down period at the moment, that is without a doubt the lowest. With that understanding, I am still a McIntosh owner and there are a few products I would like to own. Am I actively on the hunt for Mac gear? No. However, if I had the right opportunity to acquire an MC275 or a pair of MC100 amps, I would take it.
Regarding alternate brands, that is an easy one for me. Audio Research & Ayre. McIntosh makes some great products, but my opinion is that ARC and Ayre are a cut above Mac. But, let's be honest. When you get to brands at this level and higher, it's very much about taste and preference.
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twiiii
Lunatic Member
Like I have said before we had a ARC dealer in town and a lot of ARC owners were having issues back in the late 80's and 90's and we tried to help because of ARC policies we couldn't. And over half of them ended up sending their units back to the factory. The others either bought new ARC or some thing else. Very few bought Mac because they didn't want some renovated or reissued MC 275. If I just happened once or twice that would be one thing but when it happened 5 or 6 times a year you begin to wonder. And remember you are only supposed to use factory hand selected tubes in your ARC.
BillWojo
Addicted Member
Hey twiiii, that was 30 or 40 years ago! And your ARC dealer in town wasn't able to fix issues so they came across your bench. As I stated earlier, ARC was pushing the boundaries of what could be done with tube amps to improve them. And did they! Later designs took care of the reliability issues.
Sometimes a new design will cause unintended issues that don't show up till things drift out of spec. Once identified, they can be dealt with.
I understand it left a bad taste in your mouth for ARC, and if they were building the exact same circuits today without the improvements your criticism would be warranted but you might as well be complaining about an old Chevy that had poor quality control from the early 80's. Get off of it!
BillWojo
Sometimes a new design will cause unintended issues that don't show up till things drift out of spec. Once identified, they can be dealt with.
I understand it left a bad taste in your mouth for ARC, and if they were building the exact same circuits today without the improvements your criticism would be warranted but you might as well be complaining about an old Chevy that had poor quality control from the early 80's. Get off of it!
BillWojo
