Infinity Kappa 9 vs Kappa 8...Pros and Cons?

[Infinity4Eva]

Well, also Christie does let companies manufacture drivers to its specific specs, only some changes to the parameters diaphagram and damping properties can be done by designers. Infinitys and Genesis drivers were long made by Tonigan.
Well, if Christie can asure he can provide pieces of the drivers and matched sets I see no problem, otherwise it is like Paul said in his videos.

So much true. I have heard Brystons on Kappa 9s with tube preamps and they sounded even better than my setup. Maybe its a problem with the show. The best way is to visit factory and listen to them there and if they cannot convince you it is nothing like it was what Arnie did.

 

[jazzmans]

Christie owns the rights to the BG drivers and they've been selling a few models to Parts Express, others they reserve for their own speakers or possibly sell to OEMs. Either way, the death of David Gaebener shouldn't affect that.

Maybe, but Paul specifically says that that particular midrange is no longer made in one of his videos when he's talking about Arnie and PS audio's speakers.
He cited the midrange as a reason why the delay in the speakers.

It'll be interesting when I've a chance to compare my Ren 90s, or my big maggies to the PS audio speaker.

 

[pauljh]

Maybe, but Paul specifically says that that particular midrange is no longer made in one of his videos

The Neo 10 is listed on the Parts Express website as available, but out of stock. Somebody owns the tooling. The question is: will they make another batch?

 

[Infinity4Eva]

So in short words, the Nudell dip gives you the Nudell sound and once is gone the Nudells are over


By the way I was looking for a SP-6B preamp. Prices are climbing on old AR models mhm

 

[Infinity4Eva]

@Bahamayellow
you have been at RMAF 19. How was Arnies sound?

Others in the Audigon forum said the AN-3 was dark sounding and a lifeless. You also do have a pair of Kappa 9's and I guess you input would help a lot.
How did Arnie's protoype sound in comparission with your Kappa 9's?

 

[Bahamayellow]

@Bahamayellow
you have been at RMAF 19. How was Arnies sound?

Others in the Audigon forum said the AN-3 was dark sounding and a lifeless. You also do have a pair of Kappa 9's and I guess you input would help a lot.
How did Arnie's protoype sound in comparission with your Kappa 9's?

Hello Stefan yes I saw and heard the prototype speakers. They looked like some parts were unfinished but they sounded nice in person. I would say they sounded very accurate and nicer than the 9s but they were also newer technology and had 30 to 60k worth of equipment. That being said the 9s sound great in their own right. Here’s a video I made it’s not great with all the talking.

 

[Infinity4Eva]

And at least after retiring the prototypes and releasing new series I can only assume they did not really sound good at all. In 2007 I have attended a listening session with a Genesis 350Se driven with Balanced Audio Technology tube amps and seriously it did not knock my socks off.
The IRS Beta did blow me away.
Compared to the Kappa 9's I would say if you have gone through propper rebuilts their sound is not that much worse than form the Genesis 350Se.

I am wondering where we are going and over the past 8 years I began to feel disinteresst into newer speaker designs becouse they are not performing the way I would expect.

 

[Magfinity]

Old post but still reading the old comments ...

The only difference is not just 1 woofer and why that super tweeter?

It's called a ambiance tweeter that not only add some more upper end dynamics. It also improved the dispersion of the emit. Seen the fact those are relatively high in the baffle due to the driver compliment. Same with the rear emits they are there to add "airiness" it's bit of a stretch to call them dipole.

There is a huge difference in low end dynamics between the two (k8 and k9) it's not even funny how big that difference is. Some seem to think it's a frequency range game,not so much. It's about more effortless low end dynamics. And the kappa 9 in extended mode does that formidably! Even compared to the 8

Has nothing to do with frequency range as much as displacement with less effort. 2 or 4x12' is a significant difference not "just a woofer more" difference.

Then I did some rudimentary measurements on the kappa 9 are they amp needy. Yes and NO, some owners here already know where I am going with this. During testing, I tried to mimic the extended mode with pure DSP. That proven to be harder than I thought, I thought a few db boost will make up for the infamous extended switch.

That switch seems to pull the speakers right back into balance

In normal mode? These speakers hardly pull any amps. In extended I saw peaks of 8-10 amp of current pull. Not even my biggest planar (Tympani I) requires anywhere near that type of current.

Honestly, in a way it's a design that should have shamed Arnie nudell a little. 0.8ohm dips , even back then should never make it to market IMHO. When those speakers are set to normal , I even drove them on full tilt no issues with my integrated anemic marantz pm700. 4ohm seemed to be their stable impedance at cost of low end.. most Amos can handle that easily.

Aslong as I don't touch the "deep fry marantz" switch on the kappa.

For the kappa 8 that's. 1.3 ohm dip. Still problematic enough to cause some amps to go into a relay frenzy. The kappa 9 ,0.8ohm you're better of putting a fork in between your amp terminals.

You don't need gobs of wattages but current capeable amps and you're good , they are claimed well over 100db sensetivity, I have to agree there. My magnepans are well known for being low sensitivity at around 84db ,it takes literally half or less on my volume knob. To get the kappa 9 to the same spl I would normally with my maggies.

Huge significant difference there, I don't doubt those numbers to much in terms of sensitivity.

Anyways, it's a speaker goes for mainly the 8 and 9 it will reveal unpowered amps without mercy. I bi amped mine with a multi channel (Crestron cnampx7 build by ATI) and pulls the kappa with relative ease (better be, 97 pounds of pure power supply) anything with a good beefy power supply will run these guys.

They are not perfect speakers , they demand space (heck in my garage set up as we speak) it sounds great because of the space I got here. However the kappa 8 (got that one in my bedroom )

Is for the average livingroom,more than enough to get your blood going on a musical level.

 

[Magfinity]

And at least after retiring the prototypes and releasing new series I can only assume they did not really sound good at all. In 2007 I have attended a listening session with a Genesis 350Se driven with Balanced Audio Technology tube amps and seriously it did not knock my socks off.
The IRS Beta did blow me away.
Compared to the Kappa 9's I would say if you have gone through propper rebuilts their sound is not that much worse than form the Genesis 350Se.

I am wondering where we are going and over the past 8 years I began to feel disinteresst into newer speaker designs becouse they are not performing the way I would expect.

I am actually picking up a set of irs betas next month

 

[Bahamayellow]

Old post but still reading the old comments ...

The only difference is not just 1 woofer and why that super tweeter?

It's called a ambiance tweeter that not only add some more upper end dynamics. It also improved the dispersion of the emit. Seen the fact those are relatively high in the baffle due to the driver compliment. Same with the rear emits they are there to add "airiness" it's bit of a stretch to call them dipole.

There is a huge difference in low end dynamics between the two (k8 and k9) it's not even funny how big that difference is. Some seem to think it's a frequency range game,not so much. It's about more effortless low end dynamics. And the kappa 9 in extended mode does that formidably! Even compared to the 8

Has nothing to do with frequency range as much as displacement with less effort. 2 or 4x12' is a significant difference not "just a woofer more" difference.

Then I did some rudimentary measurements on the kappa 9 are they amp needy. Yes and NO, some owners here already know where I am going with this. During testing, I tried to mimic the extended mode with pure DSP. That proven to be harder than I thought, I thought a few db boost will make up for the infamous extended switch.

That switch seems to pull the speakers right back into balance

In normal mode? These speakers hardly pull any amps. In extended I saw peaks of 8-10 amp of current pull. Not even my biggest planar (Tympani I) requires anywhere near that type of current.

Honestly, in a way it's a design that should have shamed Arnie nudell a little. 0.8ohm dips , even back then should never make it to market IMHO. When those speakers are set to normal , I even drove them on full tilt no issues with my integrated anemic marantz pm700. 4ohm seemed to be their stable impedance at cost of low end.. most Amos can handle that easily.

Aslong as I don't touch the "deep fry marantz" switch on the kappa.

For the kappa 8 that's. 1.3 ohm dip. Still problematic enough to cause some amps to go into a relay frenzy. The kappa 9 ,0.8ohm you're better of putting a fork in between your amp terminals.

You don't need gobs of wattages but current capeable amps and you're good , they are claimed well over 100db sensetivity, I have to agree there. My magnepans are well known for being low sensitivity at around 84db ,it takes literally half or less on my volume knob. To get the kappa 9 to the same spl I would normally with my maggies.

Huge significant difference there, I don't doubt those numbers to much in terms of sensitivity.

Anyways, it's a speaker goes for mainly the 8 and 9 it will reveal unpowered amps without mercy. I bi amped mine with a multi channel (Crestron cnampx7 build by ATI) and pulls the kappa with relative ease (better be, 97 pounds of pure power supply) anything with a good beefy power supply will run these guys.

They are not perfect speakers , they demand space (heck in my garage set up as we speak) it sounds great because of the space I got here. However the kappa 8 (got that one in my bedroom )

Is for the average livingroom,more than enough to get your blood going on a musical level.

Great write up. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Magfinity]

Great write up. Thanks for sharing.

Appreciate that brother ! I am not a expert on the matter , but I do have them with utmost love in my secondary setup play formidably.

It's a speaker goes for mainly imho the 8 and 9 and even a kappa 6 I really like. Those 3 are to me really speakers that should be able to keep any audio enthusiast really happy for years to come.

They just need space , proper equipment and some time investment of their owners.

Fantastic speakers always will be

 

[Cptrips]

I recently had the stereo gods drop a pair of broken 8s into my lap. A couple weeks earlier a broken Parasound 2100 pre amp and a B&K 2220 power amp had found their way here. I sold the B&K and got the Parasound for my commission. The guy that bought the B&K said he had gotten a pair of Kappa 8s at an estate sale for $250.00. When he brought them home his wife told him they had to find a new home. He asked me if I could fix them (no front tweeter on one speaker) and hold on to them for awhile. I opened up the crossover and someone with limited soldering skills (the bigger the glob the better the job) had been in before me. I found a couple of open circuits fixed them. Refoamed the woofers and they sound great. However when using as front mains in surround they kill my Behringer A 800 400w x 2 4 ohm Class D amp. So I purchased a Parasound A 23 Halo amp. Solved the problem. The Behringer ran my Kappa7s with no problem.

In a week or two I will clear out my living room (14' x14' vaulted ceiling) and set it up for some side by side testing. My Kappa 7s vs the 8s. My friends have some B&Ws 600 and 800 series. Another has a pair JBL 4344 but dont know if I can get him to move those. Also polydome and woofer comparison. Orignals vs Simply Speakers.

Also I would like to Bi Amp the 8s, any suggestion for second amp to go with A23. Tubes for high pass or A21+ for low pass?

 

[Magfinity]

So weird seeing you guys here bicker ove that's better. Old post but still , and then pull "rank" almost "I had this and that and sounded so much better than the k8 or 9 " and vice versa.

That so called "better" ?! Is all depending on your room being able to handle a speaker the size of a kappa 9. And most average rooms simply don't, so the 8 for sure is almost (based on the many pics we see here, let alone rooms I've been in)

Is the better fit, this has no bearing on said speaker being per definition better. It's about what meshes well with y'all's equipment and acoustics.

I say this because nobody here, has mentioned anything about those critical elements in ANY good coherent system.

 

[Magfinity]

Old post my bad