Just ordered the VPI 16.5 Record Cleaning Machine

[Edriz]

Heres a pic of my VPI. Does anyone else have the felt mat or am I the lucky one? Oh yeah, the protector cover on the lid aint comin off. I dont want to scratch the inside of the lid, any recommendations or should I remove the lid and soak it in a hot tub. Yeah, I got a Hot Tub on my deck that everybody but me wanted but nobody uses!!

 

[classic carl]

Heres a pic of my VPI. Does anyone else have the felt mat or am I the lucky one? Oh yeah, the protector cover on the lid aint comin off. I dont want to scratch the inside of the lid, any recommendations or should I remove the lid and soak it in a hot tub. Yeah, I got a Hot Tub on my deck that everybody but me wanted but nobody uses!!

Sell the hot tub and buy more gear and records.

Mine has the cork mat and the toggle switches.

Is that Troy Polamalu on the poster? No, I'm not a Steelers fan. :thumbsdn:

 

[pioneervato]

Heres a pic of my VPI. Does anyone else have the felt mat or am I the lucky one? Oh yeah, the protector cover on the lid aint comin off. I dont want to scratch the inside of the lid, any recommendations or should I remove the lid and soak it in a hot tub. Yeah, I got a Hot Tub on my deck that everybody but me wanted but nobody uses!!

Did you buy yours used? If so, I'm betting the previous owner installed the felt mat over the existing cork or replaced it altogether. Why won't the sticky paper come off? Left on their too long possibly?

 

[Edriz]

Sell the hot tub and buy more gear and records.

Mine has the cork mat and the toggle switches.

Is that Troy Polamalu on the poster? No, I'm not a Steelers fan. :thumbsdn:

The guy on the poster is David"Rock"Feinstein lead guitar for ELF. The Rods and a few solo LPs, that is from his newest release and Ronnie james Dio did vocals on a track. He is also a cousin of Ronnies.

As for sellin the Hot Tub, it has accured to me but I'm through uying more gear. I have all I need but can always use more records, I only have just over 4300 :yes:

 

[Edriz]

Did you buy yours used? If so, I'm betting the previous owner installed the felt mat over the existing cork or replaced it altogether. Why won't the sticky paper come off? Left on their too long possibly?

Yeah I did get it used. Supposedly "slightly used" but how can ya ever really tell. The price was right though. The felt is directly on the platter, no cork under it. I could take the lid off and soak it but it dont bother me being there

 

[markd51]

Heres a pic of my VPI. Does anyone else have the felt mat or am I the lucky one? Oh yeah, the protector cover on the lid aint comin off. I dont want to scratch the inside of the lid, any recommendations or should I remove the lid and soak it in a hot tub. Yeah, I got a Hot Tub on my deck that everybody but me wanted but nobody uses!!

To me, your 16.5 machine appears to be an older one, how old I cannot say?

The evidence that points to this, is the larger Lexan Lid that sits on top of the Case, whereas the newer machines have a Lid that sits within the Case, and is prone to cause damage to the Vacuum Wand if not careful.

As for dating your machine, I believe one or both of the motors have a stamped date upon them, and this might give some indication of when it was manufactured?

As for your Mat, and the vintage of your machine, I know at some point in the past the 16.5 used a plastic recovery tank, then switched to stainless steel.
And as well there was some sort of foam Mat prior to to cork one.

Your Mat may very well be a custom part, installed by the previous owner? Mark

 

[markd51]

On the newer 16.5 RCM's, with the Lid sitting within the case, if one leaves the Wand on the machine, sitting over the Platter, and closes the lid, the inside of Lid will contact the top of the Vacuum Wand Assembly, and will cause a circular mark to inside of Lid. I solved this issue before it occured by placing a small stick on felt dot on the top of the Wand Assembly.

Me, I'm anal about stuff like that, and like keeping my gear pristine, even an RCM.
With the earlier machines with the Lid on top of the Case, I am unsure whether the inside of Lid will touch the Vacuum Wand Assembly when closed?

My Lid only gets closed when the Unit is in storage, never while in use. Mark

 

[seek/destroy]

Is that Troy Polamalu on the poster? No, I'm not a Steelers fan. :thumbsdn:

No, I think its David Duchovny :nutz:

 

[Edriz]

On the newer 16.5 RCM's, with the Lid sitting within the case, if one leaves the Wand on the machine, sitting over the Platter, and closes the lid, the inside of Lid will contact the top of the Vacuum Wand Assembly, and will cause a circular mark to inside of Lid. I solved this issue before it occured by placing a small stick on felt dot on the top of the Wand Assembly.

Me, I'm anal about stuff like that, and like keeping my gear pristine, even an RCM.
With the earlier machines with the Lid on top of the Case, I am unsure whether the inside of Lid will touch the Vacuum Wand Assembly when closed?

My Lid only gets closed when the Unit is in storage, never while in use. Mark

My lid does come in contact with the vacuum wand. I been removing the wand when I close the lid just so theres no undue pressure on the wand spring when its not being used.
Looks to me that the tank is stainless and not plastic. Maybe VPI did one mod at a time?

 

[markd51]

My lid does come in contact with the vacuum wand. I been removing the wand when I close the lid just so theres no undue pressure on the wand spring when its not being used.
Looks to me that the tank is stainless and not plastic. Maybe VPI did one mod at a time?

I do the same as you too, as the pressure from the Lid on the Wand flattens the crap out of the velvet wand strips as well.

Yep, you'll probably right about a number of transitional machines, that VPI made changes slowly-gradually over the years, due to possible changes in parts distributors, and possibly as well, parts problems.

I think over the years, I read a post or two in regards to owners of machines with the plastic tanks having them crack, and leak. The change could've been for other reasons as well, that the tank's internal baffling system was prooving ineffective, thus causing vacuum motor damage?

I've also seen changes made to the interior construction of the case, with square wood internal corner bracing, triangular shaped wood bracing, and even U-Channel Plastic Bracing in some areas. Some that had a seperate Vacuum Motor Retaining Board, and others like mine, with this Board permanently attached to inside of the Bottom Cover.

Different methods of bottom cover attachment also, with four seperate screws holding the cover on, and others attaching the cover at the four bottom rubber feet. Mark

 

[seek/destroy]

The Audio Intelligent Vinyl Solutions (AIVS) fluids were just delivered. I ordered again from ElusiveDisc. I talked with them on the phone the other day and they are really friendly and accommodating. Ill let you know how the cleaning goes later.

 

[classic carl]

My Phoenix NA solution and another 100 sleeves are supposed to be delivered on Tuesday. Hopefully, my wand assembly spring, being sent from the Agon seller will show up soon also. Do let us know how you like the AIVS.
I have a copy of Weather Report's 8:30 (live) and it had a skip on side 4. After cleaning with the home brew, it was still there. I cleaned it again with the MoFi and no more skip. Woohoo!!

 

[PickyEars81]

Yes, I think that is the older one. My mat is black, and the switches are red. Like Mark said, the lid sits directly on the top of the wand.

 

[seek/destroy]

My Phoenix NA solution and another 100 sleeves are supposed to be delivered on Tuesday. Hopefully, my wand assembly spring, being sent from the Agon seller will show up soon also. Do let us know how you like the AIVS.
I have a copy of Weather Report's 8:30 (live) and it had a skip on side 4. After cleaning with the home brew, it was still there. I cleaned it again with the MoFi and no more skip. Woohoo!!

I just cleaned my first record with the AIVS. An old copy of Paranoid by Black Sabbath. Right away I like this system better. With the Mofi, it took a lot of fluid to get a nicely coated surface on the record but with the AIVS Step 1 and 2 fluids, it was easily coated and stayed so throughout the agitation and light scrubbing. The fluids look and feel like a higher quality.

Playback was great! No miracles, there were still some surface noise but this LP was not in visually mint condition. The audible difference in detail was quite incredible...there were so many details added to the bass playing and all the instruments and vocals were more defined.

Oh! I actually think I decided that I am not so much of a fan of the Mofi cleaning brush. I bought the Osage bristle brush and have a VPI bristle brush that came with the RCM. I just feel like the Mofi brush holds too much fluid. I dont think when you are covering the entire playable surface of a record with fluid that you need a lot on the brush. So yeah, I will be getting another Osage brush (or comparable) and adding that to the brush rotation. I also think the bristle brushes are easier to clean and Osage claims their brush will last for thousands of records.

Next up, I have a handful of new records that I have yet to play as I was anticipating the purchase of the RCM so I am going to clean some mint condition LPs and see how they perform. I am expecting virtually no surface noise as there are no marks on the surface.

I think that realistically, when using good cleaning fluids and a RCM that one can expect to get the best POSSIBLE results from ones records given their physical condition. If there are light marks or scratches, you WILL hear them but the information in the grooves will be as clear as possible and that makes those surface flaws a lot easier to tolerate.

 

[meggy]

Seek, glad you're getting good results. Having vinyl in close to the best condition possible is one part of this hobby that can actually be accomplished without breaking the bank.

On your AIVS brush - how is the stiffness in comparison to the MOFI brush? The pics I see of them look more "camel hair-ish" than nylon. What's it like after a half-dozen cleans when it gets saturated?

Mark you also have the AIVS brushes, don't you?

 

[markd51]

Seek, glad you're getting good results. Having vinyl in close to the best condition possible is one part of this hobby that can actually be accomplished without breaking the bank.

On your AIVS brush - how is the stiffness in comparison to the MOFI brush? The pics I see of them look more "camel hair-ish" than nylon. What's it like after a half-dozen cleans when it gets saturated?

Mark you also have the AIVS brushes, don't you?

Howdy Meggy,
Nope, I haven't any of the Osage Brushes, and have been meaning to try them for quite awhile now, but haven't yet.

As i undserstand it, they are very soft, and supple, and if I remember the technical jargon about these, they have a 3 micron bristle.

One, or two thought that they seemed too soft, but these are probably perfect, as one doesn't want a stiff brush. They have to be nylon, or some form of synthetic bristle, otherwise, if they were natural hair bristle, the enzymes in the cleaners would disintegrate them in no time.

I have heard of many saying the VPI Brush will cause sleeks on the record's surface, even a VPI dealer told me this. (name ommited)

Scrubbing the bejesus out of a record tells me that either the user is careless, or the cleaners aren't working properly. Some don't even scrub, just apply, wait, then vacuum off.

Yes, no argument that the MoFi Brush Pads (or Disc Doctor) will take more fluids to prime them. Usually, I do no less then 10 records per cleaning run, so to me, I feel the amount of fluids they need are not too much of a concern. Not sure about harder to clean, as when I'm through, they get a rinse in distilled water, shake off excess, and blot with paper towels, then left to air dry.

The MoFi Brush Pad's Bristle is ultra soft, as soft as Velvet. Mark

 

[markd51]

I just cleaned my first record with the AIVS. An old copy of Paranoid by Black Sabbath. Right away I like this system better. With the Mofi, it took a lot of fluid to get a nicely coated surface on the record but with the AIVS Step 1 and 2 fluids, it was easily coated and stayed so throughout the agitation and light scrubbing. The fluids look and feel like a higher quality.

Playback was great! No miracles, there were still some surface noise but this LP was not in visually mint condition. The audible difference in detail was quite incredible...there were so many details added to the bass playing and all the instruments and vocals were more defined.

Oh! I actually think I decided that I am not so much of a fan of the Mofi cleaning brush. I bought the Osage bristle brush and have a VPI bristle brush that came with the RCM. I just feel like the Mofi brush holds too much fluid. I dont think when you are covering the entire playable surface of a record with fluid that you need a lot on the brush. So yeah, I will be getting another Osage brush (or comparable) and adding that to the brush rotation. I also think the bristle brushes are easier to clean and Osage claims their brush will last for thousands of records.

Next up, I have a handful of new records that I have yet to play as I was anticipating the purchase of the RCM so I am going to clean some mint condition LPs and see how they perform. I am expecting virtually no surface noise as there are no marks on the surface.

I think that realistically, when using good cleaning fluids and a RCM that one can expect to get the best POSSIBLE results from ones records given their physical condition. If there are light marks or scratches, you WILL hear them but the information in the grooves will be as clear as possible and that makes those surface flaws a lot easier to tolerate.

What formulas did you get? Did you get the pure water rinse? Hope so. Mark

 

[seek/destroy]

What formulas did you get? Did you get the pure water rinse? Hope so. Mark

Hi Mark, I got the 3 step package with includes 1) Enzymatic Formula
2) Premium Archivist Formula 3) Ultra-Pure Water.

Here's the product info:


Enzymatic Formula

This is the first step in all of our multi-step cleaning options. Designed to loosen and dissolve a wide range of contaminants, including many protein-based and organic contaminants, the Enzymatic Formula requires follow up cleaning with either the Super Cleaner Formula or the Premium Archivist Formula for a thoroughly clean record. Used as an initial cleaner or a soak, the Enzymatic Formula is most effective when the record’s surface is completely coated with a film of the product and light brushing and agitation of the product is performed. Using this method for a few minutes allows time for the enzyme components to loosen and dissolve the contaminants present on the record.
For extremely dirty records and records that have been previously treated with a lubricating product we suggest either repeating the cleaning process or allowing the Enzymatic Formula to soak on the record for several minutes. Our Premium Record Cleaner Formula No. 15 can also be used in these instances as a pre-cleaner, which will drastically speed up the cleaning process.

Premium Archivist Formula

If you prefer a record cleaning solution that does not contain Isopropanol, then Premium Archivist Formula is for you. This uniquely formulated product is as effective as the Super Cleaner Formula as the second step of the record cleaning process without using any alcohol. As with all of our products, a thorough coating of the product on the record surface along with gently brushing and agitation of the fluid is required for the best results.

Ultra-Pure Water

All of our cleaning products contain Ultra-Pure Water. This product is filtered and de-ionized in a 6 step process that produces a research grade product. We process our own water product in house to insure that the quality of the product meets the exact standards that we have found through laboratory research to be best suited for cleaning phonograph records. The result is water that is much purer and that works better than water found at retail outlets.

This is important for allowing unobstructed action by the enzyme and surfactant components of our cleaning formulas. The result is records that are cleaner than they’ve ever been. This product is perfect as a rinse agent after the 2-step cleaning process to remove any traces of contaminants that might remain, and is also perfect for rinsing brushes and record cleaning machine pickup tubes.

 

[seek/destroy]

Seek, glad you're getting good results. Having vinyl in close to the best condition possible is one part of this hobby that can actually be accomplished without breaking the bank.

On your AIVS brush - how is the stiffness in comparison to the MOFI brush? The pics I see of them look more "camel hair-ish" than nylon. What's it like after a half-dozen cleans when it gets saturated?

Mark you also have the AIVS brushes, don't you?

Well the Mofi brush is ultra-soft, a cleaning pad if you will whereas the Osage is definitely a brush but is noticeably softer than the VPI brush. I am not doing too much with the VPI brush, its reserved for the rinse stage and I only do very light "scrubbing" with it. The Osage is being used for the 1st (enzymic) step and the Mofi for the 2nd (Premium Archivist) step.

Neither of this brushes compare to the softness of the velvety Mofi brush.

 

[markd51]

I just cleaned my first record with the AIVS. An old copy of Paranoid by Black Sabbath. Right away I like this system better. With the Mofi, it took a lot of fluid to get a nicely coated surface on the record but with the AIVS Step 1 and 2 fluids, it was easily coated and stayed so throughout the agitation and light scrubbing. The fluids look and feel like a higher quality.

Playback was great! No miracles, there were still some surface noise but this LP was not in visually mint condition. The audible difference in detail was quite incredible...there were so many details added to the bass playing and all the instruments and vocals were more defined.

Oh! I actually think I decided that I am not so much of a fan of the Mofi cleaning brush. I bought the Osage bristle brush and have a VPI bristle brush that came with the RCM. I just feel like the Mofi brush holds too much fluid. I dont think when you are covering the entire playable surface of a record with fluid that you need a lot on the brush. So yeah, I will be getting another Osage brush (or comparable) and adding that to the brush rotation. I also think the bristle brushes are easier to clean and Osage claims their brush will last for thousands of records.

Next up, I have a handful of new records that I have yet to play as I was anticipating the purchase of the RCM so I am going to clean some mint condition LPs and see how they perform. I am expecting virtually no surface noise as there are no marks on the surface.

I think that realistically, when using good cleaning fluids and a RCM that one can expect to get the best POSSIBLE results from ones records given their physical condition. If there are light marks or scratches, you WILL hear them but the information in the grooves will be as clear as possible and that makes those surface flaws a lot easier to tolerate.

You've pretty much described what a cleaner can do, and cannot do.

Of course, no cleaner can miraculously fill in scracthes, pits, repair vinyl that's been eaten away by 20 years of molds, and fungus'.

The AIVS solutions won't candy coat the record, lowering groove noise, and in the process also masking fine detail. They will lay the record bare, with all its glory.

Groove noise is also a quality that is inherit in certain cartridges, and combinations of cartridges, and arms.

Although not bad, I could still easily hear groove noise with a $750 Benz Glider, and a $3,000 Benz Ruby 3 Cartridges on what I thought was pristine vinyl.

Only when I changed to a ZYX Airy 3X, did I finally understand that all cartridges aren't created equal. The Airy 3 was so silent in the groove, it was startling. Made me yank out records over 30 years old, and playing for hours on end the first night, wondering just how far this uncanny silence carried?
That these oldies were sounding like brand new vinyl. I then sold the Ruby 3 with only 15 hours on it. Mark