Just ordered the VPI 16.5 Record Cleaning Machine

[PickyEars81]

Ill take some photos after dinner and walking the dog. I think you'll be shocked that my VPI looks like all the other VPI HW16.5's
I think I may get another Ikea expedit 2x2 to place it on or a nightstand with a couple drawers for the supplies and whatnot. Where do you guys have yours?

Prob so. I think what threw me was the center part.

 

[markd51]

Congrats are in order. I bought mine used on Agon and it arrived on 1/7/11. I've already cleaned about 60 records and although most of mine are not extremely dirty, my listening room is full of static electricity. Since cleaning records on the VPI, I have no more issues with static pops and clicks. What a huge difference. I also made a batch of home brew cleaner for about $5 a gallon and it works as good as the MoFi that came with it, which is $80/gallon. There a several recipes for home brew on AK. I use the VPI brush that came with it and don't have any issues with it at all.

As mentioned earlier, the directions state that the tank should be emptied every 6 records, but I cannot see why that is imperative. I cleaned over 40 before I emptied it the first time and there was probably about 5 or 6 ounces drained.

Hello,
If I perhaps made mention earlier in this thread, about suggesting the emptying of the resovoir every 6 records or so, this was just so a new user will get the feel after some experience with the machine, and will then better know what to expect.

One may be able to clean 20, 30, or even like you have, 40 records without feeling the need. But read on, and read what I'll say in the next paragraphs.

The VPI's machines, just like many other machines is in essence just like a wet-dry shop vac, or a carpet steaming machine, in that it has a baffled resovoir to restrict fluid intrusion into the vacuum motor, which BTW isn't waterproof.

Unlike some more sophisticated, and costly machines, the 16.5 does not possess any means of warning the user of a resovoir that is full, or nearing full. In any case, the Ametek-Lamb Vacuum Motor inside will still be subjected to aresols-mists from the vacuum, and while it can tolerate some slight periodic misting, and then let dry, it cannot tolerate much more fluids than this.

So, with that said, I myself would rather empty the machine more often, than not enough. This motor is expensive and if it fails due to water intrusion, this is one aspect of your warrantee that VPI may refuse to honor.

Besides it being wise, I also find it's good to take an occasional break from a cleaning run to empty the machine, and another plus, is that it gives those 16.5 owners who have not installed a cooling fan on their machine, a chance for the motors to cool down a bit.

And it is another reason why VPI strongly warns against ever tipping the machine, or moving it while it has fluids in the resovoir. Tip the machine to the left, and all those fluids can bypass the baffle, and go directly into the vacuum motor.

It is permissable, and even a good idea I have found to carefully slightly tip the machine rearward when draining the tank, that you will get more fluids from the tank this way.

The drain nipple, and drain hose is located at the rear of the tank, which is facing the rear of the machine.

And I think I mentioned before, after a cleaning run, do insure you have emptied the resovoir tank completely , and I always clean the wand, and leave the vacuum wand off the machine for a good period, thus letting the innards of the machine, and any internals of the vacuum motor fully dry.

It will help insure you'll get many years of life from that motor.
Hope this helps. Mark

 

[classic carl]

Thanks for the explanation Mark. :thmbsp:

 

[Tedrick]

Hello,
If I perhaps made mention earlier in this thread, about suggesting the emptying of the resovoir every 6 records or so, this was just so a new user will get the feel after some experience with the machine, and will then better know what to expect.

One may be able to clean 20, 30, or even like you have, 40 records without feeling the need. But read on, and read what I'll say in the next paragraphs.

The VPI's machines, just like many other machines is in essence just like a wet-dry shop vac, or a carpet steaming machine, in that it has a baffled resovoir to restrict fluid intrusion into the vacuum motor, which BTW isn't waterproof.

Unlike some more sophisticated, and costly machines, the 16.5 does not possess any means of warning the user of a resovoir that is full, or nearing full. In any case, the Ametek-Lamb Vacuum Motor inside will still be subjected to aresols-mists from the vacuum, and while it can tolerate some slight periodic misting, and then let dry, it cannot tolerate much more fluids than this.

So, with that said, I myself would rather empty the machine more often, than not enough. This motor is expensive and if it fails due to water intrusion, this is one aspect of your warrantee that VPI may refuse to honor.

Besides it being wise, I also find it's good to take an occasional break from a cleaning run to empty the machine, and another plus, is that it gives those 16.5 owners who have not installed a cooling fan on their machine, a chance for the motors to cool down a bit.

And it is another reason why VPI strongly warns against ever tipping the machine, or moving it while it has fluids in the resovoir. Tip the machine to the left, and all those fluids can bypass the baffle, and go directly into the vacuum motor.

It is permissable, and even a good idea I have found to carefully slightly tip the machine rearward when draining the tank, that you will get more fluids from the tank this way.

The drain nipple, and drain hose is located at the rear of the tank, which is facing the rear of the machine.

And I think I mentioned before, after a cleaning run, do insure you have emptied the resovoir tank completely , and I always clean the wand, and leave the vacuum wand off the machine for a good period, thus letting the innards of the machine, and any internals of the vacuum motor fully dry.

It will help insure you'll get many years of life from that motor.
Hope this helps. Mark

+1, and I'll add that after every cleaning session, leave the vaccum wand and the hose clip off so that tube and tank can air dry. This will minimize the chance of any mildew or mold growing inside these parts.

 

[seek/destroy]

Just finished cleaning a few more...all sorts of condition and ages.
I used the Mofi deep clean and then the Super Wash on an old Soria Series Messiah LP set that looked pretty good to begin with but given the age of the records I figured a deeper cleaning was warranted. Anyway, 4 LPs later and testing them all on the turntable I found that there was a lot of surface noise. This has been my experience so far...there has been definite increase in detail on all the records I cleaned and this is exciting and encouraging. I dont expect the records to be completely silent. But does that seem consistent with all of your cleaning sessions? or do you have any sage advice.

 

[markd51]

I imagine many who buy these machines buy them to keep for a good number of years, but there are of course exceptions. In any case, these suggestions I will further make I believe are a good idea, both for yourself, or the hypothetical future owner.

And that is, after a couple of uses of the RCM, one should do some shake down inpections, both outside, and inside.

They are ingenious machnies, but not so complex, or highly technical in build, that a shadetree hobbist cannot maintain, or fix if ever needed.

The Bottom Cover is easy to remove for internal inspection by placing the machine on its side. My 2008 16.5 RCM has a Bottom Lid, which is held on by the four Screws which also hold on the four Rubber Feet.

I've heard of minor differences over the years, and perhaps they are still the same in this regard as mine?

What you want to look for, and inspect for mostly, is to make sure no fluids are leaking within the machine, which could cause continual damage to the inside case of the machine as time goes by. Evidence of fluids will be seen at either the Internal Insulation Batting (usually two small sheets), or the inside of the Bottom Cover itself.

Check the screw type Hose Clamp that secures the Drain Hose to the Nipple of the Recovery Tank-Resovoir. Make sure it is snug-tight.

Also check for any leakage at the Gasket that seals the face of Rotary Vacuum Motor, to the Recovery Tank.

Visually inspect that all securing screws are present, that hold the Recovery Tank to the underside of Top Deck Plate. Won't hurt to check all with a Phillips Screwdriver.

Check anything else you feel should be checked, such as Wire Nuts, integrity of assembly of Case, etc etc. The inspection takes about as long to do, as it took me to write what I have so far.

Now, for the outside.

Check Hinge Lid Screws, check that the Vacuum Tower Base Screws are snug to the top of the Deck. I understand that now, VPI has replaced the two Toggle Switches on front, with Rocker Switches? My machine has the older Toggle Type, and one of them was a bit of a PITA, with the little Knurled Nut constantly coming loose.

I cured that, by going to Rat Shack, buying a little bag of assorted Hex Retaining Nuts, and being able to better tighten them with a Nut Driver.

There is an adjustment that can be checked in regards to proper downward limit travel of the Vacuum Wand itself. And here's how it is done:

You'll note there is a Ring Collar on the Vacuum Tower Assembly, that has a locking Allen Screw. First place a record on the Platter. Remove the Vacuum Wand Assembly, this simply just slides straight up, and off the machine. Remove the Coil Spring.

(Don't touch the Round Delrin Base that attaches to Top Deck with Three Screws!)

Now, place the Vacuum Wand Assembly back on its Base minus the Coil Spring. The Round Locking Collar should be set-adjusted so that the Vacuum Wand just touches the Record. If the Locking Collar needs adjustment, loosen Allen Screw, slide the Collar either up, or down slightly to get the proper setting. Then snug the Allen Locking Screw. Be careful not to tighten with Gorilla force, these parts are only Delrin.

As for the Clear Acrylic Vacuum Wand itself, insure that it is firmly seated in the Tower Assembly, Always push it straight in, or to remove, pull it straight out, never twist it.

There is a locating Pin within the Hole of the Tower where the Vacuum Wand inserts, and a notch on the Clear Acrylic Vacuum Wand, that this insures proper alignment of the Vacuum Slot in relation to the surface of the Record. Which BTW, is not at an exact 90 degree angle, you'll note the slot is ever so slightly angled rearward, to promote better efficiency of Fluid Removal.

Hope these few little tips help. Mark

 

[classic carl]

Mark, what is the spring for? Mine does not have one, unless I'm looking in the wrong place. My wand slips into the hole and just sits on the record when rotated.

 

[DougMac]

The Spring

Mark, what is the spring for? Mine does not have one, unless I'm looking in the wrong place. My wand slips into the hole and just sits on the record when rotated.

What I've written below is supposition. I have a DIY RCM that I built using the VPI 16.5 upgrade kit. I'm assuming a production VPI 16.5 works the same way. If not, please correct.

There should be a spring between the wand and the base. With the spring in place, you should be able to swing the arm over the record with the vacuum off and it will hover over the record. When the vacuum turns on, the suction draws the wand down. It regulates the pressure of the wand on the record surface.

I wouldn't clean records without the spring in place.

 

[boatdrinks77]

I have sent letters to that guy at DYSON asking him to design a better system, but haven't heard back. Enjoy your VPI and let us know what you think of it !!! Dan

 

[seek/destroy]

The cleaner was supplied with 100 plastic lined paper inner sleeves & I bought 100 MFSL inner sleeves. Last night I cleaned a copy of the Beatles Abbey Road that I had written off. After playing it, it was deserving of the MFSL inner sleeve!

 

[classic carl]

What I've written below is supposition. I have a DIY RCM that I built using the VPI 16.5 upgrade kit. I'm assuming a production VPI 16.5 works the same way. If not, please correct.

There should be a spring between the wand and the base. With the spring in place, you should be able to swing the arm over the record with the vacuum off and it will hover over the record. When the vacuum turns on, the suction draws the wand down. It regulates the pressure of the wand on the record surface.

I wouldn't clean records without the spring in place.

Interesting...that make sense. My RCM seems to work fine, but there is no spring. I'll call the seller and see if he forgot to include it. If not, I guess I'll need to call VPI fpr a replacement.
Thanks!

 

[markd51]

Interesting...that make sense. My RCM seems to work fine, but there is no spring. I'll call the seller and see if he forgot to include it. If not, I guess I'll need to call VPI fpr a replacement.
Thanks!

This is the Spring I'm talking about. You fellas don't have this Spring?

 

[markd51]

What I've written below is supposition. I have a DIY RCM that I built using the VPI 16.5 upgrade kit. I'm assuming a production VPI 16.5 works the same way. If not, please correct.

There should be a spring between the wand and the base. With the spring in place, you should be able to swing the arm over the record with the vacuum off and it will hover over the record. When the vacuum turns on, the suction draws the wand down. It regulates the pressure of the wand on the record surface.

I wouldn't clean records without the spring in place.

Doug is mostly correct, and I would clarify that the spring doesn't so much regulate the pressue placed upon the record, but does let it hover above the record before vacuum activation, and then lets the wand retract back up after vacuum is shut off, and vacuum pressure drops.

It is actually the Collar on the Wand Assembly that regulates how much downward pressure is then applied to the record.

In the picture I posted, you can see that Collar on the Wand Tower, and can even see the Allen Set Screw that holds it in position on the Vertical Tube.

There has been occasion that some end users going through Clear Vacuum Wands like there's no tomorrow, constantly cracking-breaking, and/or not lasting very long.

Besides slamming the Lid Cover on a swung out of the way Wand, the mal-adjustment of this Stop Collar is one other major cause of Vacuum Wand breakage. Mark

 

[markd51]

Just finished cleaning a few more...all sorts of condition and ages.
I used the Mofi deep clean and then the Super Wash on an old Soria Series Messiah LP set that looked pretty good to begin with but given the age of the records I figured a deeper cleaning was warranted. Anyway, 4 LPs later and testing them all on the turntable I found that there was a lot of surface noise. This has been my experience so far...there has been definite increase in detail on all the records I cleaned and this is exciting and encouraging. I dont expect the records to be completely silent. But does that seem consistent with all of your cleaning sessions? or do you have any sage advice.

I'll tell you one possible cause of what you note, and when I post this thread, I may get a lot of flak-disagreement. One reason I try avoiding traveling down this path in these forums, as there is often little agreement, and there are the many different camps of thought.

Both Mofi Super Deep Cleaner, and Mofi Super Vinyl Wash are relatively ineffecient cleaning products. And so are products such as Nitty Gritty, and VPI's own cleaner, which is probably made by one of the two companies I mention here in ths paragraph.

No, I'm not saying they are bad cleaners, or that they'll cause damage per se.
But they lack the proper ingredients to truly get vinyl clean.

And, I'll go further, and say the same holds true for basically any DIY Cleaner as well, they not only lack the proper ingredients, but the ingredients that are used are usually not suitable for record cleaning use, although a lot of people like to believe they are, but they only fool themselves.

Ingredients like Dawn Dishwashing Fluid should not be used for records. There's ingredients in them like Food Grade Silicone (makes the dishes nice and shiny though), Dyes, Fragrances, and a host of other ingredients not truly ideally suitable for PVC Vinyl Cleaning. Neither are products that were designed for Glassware Cleaning, which contain Sodium, and Acids.

Foto Flow, made by Kodak is also another product (surfactant) that does not belong on Vinyl.

The hot ticket for Vinyl Cleaning today is Enzymes. As time goes by, seems that more companies are using Enzymes, and I believe MoFi themselves has such a cleaner.

Such cleaners that contain Enzymes make the best first step product IMO.

I'm not saying to chuck your other MoFi Cleaning products in the trash, but only to consider using a good respected cleaner with an Enzyme in it first, then go on to using your other MoFi Products afterwards.

And always, employ a pure water rinse as a last step. Don't rely on the 16.5 to fully remove any remaining residues that are left behind by any cleaner, regardless of what the manufacture suggests-claims. Mark

 

[classic carl]

This is the Spring I'm talking about. You fellas don't have this Spring?
View attachment 251119

I do not have this spring. My wand sits on the record by gravity. I then pull it off the record after vacuuming. I'm going to call the seller as I mentioned before. If he doesn't or never had it (he was the second owner), I'll call VPI for a replavement.
My home brew cleaner uses about 2 drops of Dawn per gallon of fluid. I was going to order a quart or gallon of the Phoenix Enzyme cleaner without alcohol. Looks like Iwon't be using the RCM until I get a spring anyway, so I ave time to order the Phoenix fluid.

 

[meggy]

I do not have this spring. My wand sits on the record by gravity. I then pull it off the record after vacuuming. I'm going to call the seller as I mentioned before. If he doesn't or never had it (he was the second owner), I'll call VPI for a replavement.
My home brew cleaner uses about 2 drops of Dawn per gallon of fluid. I was going to order a quart or gallon of the Phoenix Enzyme cleaner without alcohol. Looks like Iwon't be using the RCM until I get a spring anyway, so I ave time to order the Phoenix fluid.

Sure, mine has a spring. carl I'll bet one from a "rainbird" lawn sprinkler head at Home Depot would be a cheap, easily modifiable replacement spring. Not much to it.

 

[pioneervato]

I do not have this spring. My wand sits on the record by gravity. I then pull it off the record after vacuuming. I'm going to call the seller as I mentioned before. If he doesn't or never had it (he was the second owner), I'll call VPI for a replavement.
My home brew cleaner uses about 2 drops of Dawn per gallon of fluid. I was going to order a quart or gallon of the Phoenix Enzyme cleaner without alcohol. Looks like Iwon't be using the RCM until I get a spring anyway, so I ave time to order the Phoenix fluid.

Carl, I have been using the Phoenix vinyl cleaner from Sleeve City for over a year and it works well for me. How well it compares to others would just be a guess but I have been happy with it. I hope to try some others along the way in the future.

Sure, mine has a spring. carl I'll bet one from a "rainbird" lawn sprinkler head at Home Depot would be a cheap, easily modifiable replacement spring. Not much to it.

That would be worth a try and should not be hard to snip it to the proper length but some of these springs have much more "spring" to them than the one that VPI supplies with their machines. I have a few new sprinklers in the garage I will have to pull out and compare.

 

[pioneervato]

The spring from my 2" Orbit sprinkler head is too small in diameter but seems to be close enough to the spring tension of the original spring but the diameter is too small. If you can find a sprinkler that uses a spring with a diameter of 1.25" and you can cut it to to a height of 7/8"- 1" you should be in business.

 

[Redikilowatt]

I use the Phoenix Enzyme and MoFi Super Wash :thmbsp:
After a few "non double-blind" comparisons using distilled water I did not observe any difference than using Super Wash as last step. However, I use distilled water to clean the brushes, wand, and other surfaces. No doubt your results may differ

The VPI 16.5 is possibly my most valued audio related purchase :yes:

Roger

 

[markd51]

I do not have this spring. My wand sits on the record by gravity. I then pull it off the record after vacuuming. I'm going to call the seller as I mentioned before. If he doesn't or never had it (he was the second owner), I'll call VPI for a replavement.
My home brew cleaner uses about 2 drops of Dawn per gallon of fluid. I was going to order a quart or gallon of the Phoenix Enzyme cleaner without alcohol. Looks like Iwon't be using the RCM until I get a spring anyway, so I ave time to order the Phoenix fluid.

I'm glad I now have the ability to post pics so easily with my new Nikon S8100.

Think about this realistically for a second. What the hell does two drops of Dawn do in a gallon of water? Who, or where did this "secret formula" come from, and who concluded that 2 drops was the right mix?

Want me to tell you who? Answer, the man in the moon!

So, what happens when one adds double this amount, 4 drops per gallon, then what happens? Does one then have a mixture that won;t come off the record? Maybe, and maybe not?

But I'd bet I could throw an ounce of Dawn per gallon, and it still would not work as good as a properly engineered Record Cleaning Fluid. And now there's the problem of a nasty soapy solution you can't get off the record with ten rinses. Not to mention all the damage, and other products beside soap still sitting in the groove.

There's a lot of baloney present in the audio community. You got people grinding axes, cause some dealer, or maker wouldn't give them free product, cause in thier dumb minds, they think they are some sort of Michael Fremer. Or, they have some other dysfunctional reason as to their quirks? I don't understand why somebody would spend mucho money for an RCM, believing this is a good thing to have, but not good engineered cleaning formulas?

I don't have as large a collection as some people may brag to have, about 850 records, but none are of the sort, where I would be reluctant to let a $3400 MC ZYX Cartridge play them. I figure the collection is worth between $15-$17K Who knows, maybe more?

I'm of the camp that would like doing them right the first time, I don't want to create damage from cleaners, nor leave behind residues that won't come off with a final rinse.

Nor do I want to shoot them with a $3.00 Chinese Steamer, watching them warp, just smearing the dirt to be reseposited somewhere else, and wonder has the 130F temps damaged the groove? Mark