Just ordered the VPI 16.5 Record Cleaning Machine

[pioneervato]

C'mon Mark. Spit it out man! Tell us what you really think!

 

[markd51]

C'mon Mark. Spit it out man! Tell us what you really think!

I can understand that not all people who enjoy vinyl can then run out, and blow $500, or more just to clean records.

House payments, bills, children, and many other things take precendence.

But, if you're going to walk the walk, and wish to spend some money, and spend it on an RCM, why then not at least try some decent cleaners to go with?

Now let's say one has the VPI Cleaner, or Nitty Gritty, or MoFi Super Vinyl Wash. And the product seems sort of mild, and not working so well on really filthy records.

There's probably no harm in re-applying, doing a second clean and rinse, since it's already in the process of being cleaned, what the heck, do it again!

I'd probably rather go through cleaning twice, than throwing that record that wasn't fully cleaned on the Platter, then possibly permanently damaging that record, with a Stylus jumping over stuck on dirt due to innefficient cleaning.
Mark

 

[classic carl]

So far, I've usd the MoFi Super Wash and the home brew, which was suggested to me by a fellow Ak'er. The only difference that I can see is that the MoFi beads up as soon as I stop scrubbing and the home brew doesn't. The home brew does not get soapy. I cannot hear any difference in the records sound between the two. As I mentioned before, most of my records were not extremely dirty, but they do sound better, regardless of which fluid I used. That being said, I'm going to order some Phoenix fluid and try that.

I talked to the seller of my RCM and he has my spring. He said he never used it and didn't know what it was for. He's going to send it to me ASAP. By the time it gets here, I should have another fluid to try.

 

[seek/destroy]

I just ordered some more serious fluid as well. I opted for the Audio Intelligent Vinyl Solutions enzymic 3 step process. After researching for a while this evening, it seems the results observed are more in line with the results I would like. It does all start to add up. I've read some writings on the "process" of cleaning with these fluids and some recommend even dedicated vacuum tubes for each of the 3 steps. I may go that route eventually, but my investment at this point has to be capped. I am anxious and excited to try these fluids and hopefully they will pay for themselves and my collecting. I have a good amount of records I have been meaning to sell and was waiting on a vacuum cleaner all these years. After my initial cleanings I am hoping that the new fluids will add new life to these records and remove the noise I've noticed. This is fun, isnt it? Yes.

 

[markd51]

S/D,
I know there are some VPI RCM users that have an additional Vacuum Wand Assembly specifically dedicated for the rinse process.

I have one, which is about a $65 or so cost outlay to have. I would say initially, one should at least use a dedicated brush for application of any multi-step cleaning processes.

There's the thought of "when will it ever end", with anal obsessiveness cleaning vinyl, and would assume at some point, everything will, and can become cross-contaminated. The Brushes, the Pads, and even the Cork Mat on the 16.5.

The Brushes, and Wand can at least be rinsed per so many records if one chooses (which I think is a good idea), but the Cork Mat on the 16.5 RCM I seen as a problem that just wasn't going to go away.

When I first thought of buying an RCM, and then bought one, I must've read literally 100's of posts, if not 1000's. I read about how some people dealt with the Mat, swapping to a different Mat over the top of the existing Mat, and thought, well this will work, but for how long, and do I want to go through this extra work? Even thought will all this swapping could somehow cause additional static with Mats being placed on-off the machine?

I concluded for my own personal useage, time to get rid of the Cork Mat altogether, and have something that is easy to clean, is non-porous-waterproof-chemical proof, won't be prone to static build up, could be easy to identify dirt or dust on the Mat. After looking at other, more costly machines, I decided Neoprene Rubber Sheet as a Mat material was the answer.

If you look back at my post showing the Coil Spring for the Vacuum Wand Assembly, you'll see in that Pic the Neoprene Platter Mat that is permanently attached to my Platter.
It's the last Mat I'll ever need on my 16.5.

I firstly tried a self adhesive backed Neoprene Sheet, bought fom McMaster-Carr Supply, and didn't like the end result, noting small bubbles from inadequate adhesion.
Off it came, and purchased a Neoprene Sheet with no adhesive backing, and glued the Sheet with DAP Contact Cement. One of course has to cut the central Spindle Hole, and as well, one should also punch the three holes for the Platter Screws to be able to remove the Platter in the event of a Platter Motor failure, or for a more common problem which often occurs to 16.5 users, is the Platter coming loose from the Drive Motor.

The interfacing metal (aluminum) Platter-Motor Arbor, which holds Platter to Drive Motor Shaft has two Allen Set Screws, and sometimes with heating-cooling, or inadequate tightening, they can come loose, and cause the Platter to slip on the Motor Shaft.

Application of another mat is made easier with the Platter off the Machine. It is a simple matter to then cut the perimeter of Mat with an exacto knife, tracing the circumference of the Platter, with the Platter placed upside down on a clean piece of Plywood Sheet. Mark

 

[markd51]

S/D, I use the AI products. I think you will find they have no peer.

The better the quality, and effectiveness of the cleaners-rinses will have many benefits.

Records that play cleanly are of course of more value, and are more enjoyable to listen to. The other advantage, is a Stylus that encounters less dirt, and residues as it plays.

Styli, such as Micro-Line/Line Contact Styli seem to have a nasty propensity for digging up more crud out of a Record's Groove.

You'll note with the better cleaners, and the RCM, that you aren't noticing all the crud-fuzz build up like you had in the past. Mark

 

[Edriz]

I hear you guys talkin about a cork mat. My VPI has a felt,grey colored mat. For cleaning I use the MoFi One, and now decided to go with the MoFi Super wash. I havent considered rinsing. I may start doing a rinse but I think I'll look for distilled water in a grocery/department store.

MoFi pure record rinse is like $20 for a pint? Rediculous for water, IMO Anyone else just use distilled water for rinsing?

 

[classic carl]

I've seen "pure" water locally for $1.49/gal. and "distilled" water for $.85/gal. in different stores. Does anyone know if pure water and distilled water are the same thing?

I'm presently using distilled water to rinse, but was wondering if pure water is better or if it's the same thing.

 

[markd51]

I've seen "pure" water locally for $1.49/gal. and "distilled" water for $.85/gal. in different stores. Does anyone know if pure water and distilled water are the same thing?

I'm presently using distilled water to rinse, but was wondering if pure water is better or if it's the same thing.

I'm certainly not a lab chemist, or lab tech, but as I understand, the higher the purity, the better. But, there has to be a diminishing point of return, of going to ridiculous levels of purity, and then paying the through the nose for it.

I've heard of places such as Whole Foods selling Triple Distilled, or something like that (perhaps with a deionization process too), but what I wonder, if the first distillation process was somewhat ineffective, then what benefit does two more distillation steps have?

It's hard to determine what the quality is, without certified testing specs of the water? And I know virtually all of us are at the mercy of any said seller, due to the fact that virtually all do not share the specs of their waters to the public.

Even lab certified Reagent Grade Waters I understand can vary in the amount of dissolved solids, and gases.

I've heard of places like auto parts stores selling battery water or such, but again, is it any better than distilled water you can buy from the grocery store?
Probably not, just some fancy packaging making one believe they are getting better quality.

I know in the past, I've read in other forums, where some people would buy waters from lab supply houses, such as fisher scientific, but the thing is, the quantities are usually 5 gallons, and what does one do with so much water?

Unless one can share these quantities with other people, what I wonder, is how long will the purity last in storage? Transferrence into improper holding vessels will also compromise the quality of these waters, unless they are placed into high grade vessels. As I understand it, glass is often the worst, unless the glass is medical grade, usually those dark brown glass bottles.

As for what I use, I do strictly use AIVS pure waters as a final rinse, and I believe I have the assurance from the maker, that these are extremely high purity waters, stated to be 50 times purer than single step distilled water.

No, they are not cheap, the processes and packaging are expensive. But I can say they work extremely well, and can find no fault. Mark

 

[cwall99]

I'm sure most of my records would benefit from being cleaned by a machine, but, since my TT is in my family room, I'm pretty certain that my lovely wife would object to an RCM's presence there (frankly, I don't know where I'd put it). So then we have the ugly issue of deciding where to put it, and, in my house, any locations where my wife might let me keep a machine like this (ok, in the basement) isn't convenient.

Still, the idea is cool.

 

[pioneervato]

For dispensing distilled water for the final rinse I use a plastic squeeze bottle with a tethered cap that I use to cap the nozzle and eliminate evaporation. These work great for dispensing your cleaners as well and I also use another one for filling my VPI 17F reservoir with cleanser. I attached about a 6" piece of 1/4" drip line to make it easier to squirt some cleanser into the fill hole without dripping or spilling it onto the RCM. Using the tethered cap I can use it to cap off the tube spout.

These bottles are available at your friendly Wal-Mart store for about a buck and can be found in the Kitchen accessories dept.

 

[markd51]

I hear you guys talkin about a cork mat. My VPI has a felt,grey colored mat. For cleaning I use the MoFi One, and now decided to go with the MoFi Super wash. I havent considered rinsing. I may start doing a rinse but I think I'll look for distilled water in a grocery/department store.

MoFi pure record rinse is like $20 for a pint? Rediculous for water, IMO Anyone else just use distilled water for rinsing?

Yes Edriz, I fully understand how these costs can be hard to afford.
I don't think there's anyone who enjoys the thought of these expenditures.
That the only consolation is the final results achieved by the use of high purity waters used as a final step.

Usually, there is some saving to be had, buying qts versus pts.

I have at times gotten into heated discussions in forums like this, over record cleaning. And I would prefer not going there in this thread for sure.

But I think, and believe it would be safe to say, and agreeable to many,that even the lowly .69/gal single step distilled stuff from the supermarket would give better final results, than using no rinse step at all.

That if this step will help additionally remove any left behind remnants of cleaners, films-residues from the cleaning processes, and that the additional step also helps remove a bit more groove crud as well in the process, I see this as a benefit.
Mark

 

[classic carl]

I'm sure most of my records would benefit from being cleaned by a machine, but, since my TT is in my family room, I'm pretty certain that my lovely wife would object to an RCM's presence there (frankly, I don't know where I'd put it). So then we have the ugly issue of deciding where to put it, and, in my house, any locations where my wife might let me keep a machine like this (ok, in the basement) isn't convenient.

Still, the idea is cool.

I don't have that problem. When I designed the house, the "family room" as the plans describe it, was really intended as a media/listening room. I insulated every wall, including the inside walls and the ceiling. The wires for the rear surrounds on the HT were installed in the walls before the drywall was put up, and so on. My main system, HT, and laptop/tuner system are all in the same room and so are my records, CD's and RCM. My wife doesn't care what is on the walls or what furniture is in there (within reason). She even calls it my "mancave", although I disagree with that description.
I put off buying a RCM because I didn't know where I was going to put it either. I ended up putting it on one of the end tables and replaced the lamp that was there with a floor standing lamp (that I "stole" from the living room) next to it. She has no problem with the new look at all. She even mentioned that she likes the floor lamp there. It rarely got used in the living room. It's Tiffany style glass shade matches the small lamp on the bar at the rear of the room, where my laptop system is.

 

[seek/destroy]

Here are those photos I took the other night:

 

[classic carl]

Yep. That's definitely a VPI 16.5 RCM. Nice pile o' rekkids you got there. :thmbsp:

 

[pioneervato]

So when you gonna remove the protective covering from the lucite lid?

 

[markd51]

Note in the Pics S/D posted, the new rocker type switches that VPI is using now.

Can't say which is better? i know I like the toggle switches on mine, as it's easy to have one hand on the platter switch, and the other on my MoFi Brush on the record. Then flick the switch to rotate the record to a new position while I do a mild scrub to small sections of the record. Depends what you get used to I guess.

The rocker switches look like they'd be less suceptible to damage though, as they are not protruding out from the front of the machine. Mark

 

[pioneervato]

Hmmm...interesting but I always liked the action of the toggle switches but I will admit the toggle switches look nice. I wonder if they did this change on the 17F?

 

[Tedrick]

I'm sure most of my records would benefit from being cleaned by a machine, but, since my TT is in my family room, I'm pretty certain that my lovely wife would object to an RCM's presence there (frankly, I don't know where I'd put it). So then we have the ugly issue of deciding where to put it, and, in my house, any locations where my wife might let me keep a machine like this (ok, in the basement) isn't convenient.

Still, the idea is cool.

I had to put my RCM cleaning station on my work bench in the garage. There's simply no way I could do any late-night cleaning sessions if it were anywhere inside the house.

 

[seek/destroy]

Yep. That's definitely a VPI 16.5 RCM. Nice pile o' rekkids you got there. :thmbsp:

I think those visible records represent about half of my collection. The cabinet that the shelves sit upon are filled as well. The ones you can see are pretty much the cream.