Did you see Permanent's post above yours? Again, I'm not anti-iPod, but he makes a valid point, and among audiophiles I think that's probably where some of the animosity comes from (note I said "some").
Permanent Waves did a good job making the "compressed music threatens us all" argument, but his tone leads me to believe that even he'd recognize that argument as speculative.
I understand the argument, but am not buying it when evidence indicates that most every new band I want to purchase music from (immediately and on line!) makes their catalog available in FLAC form.
It is a valid point but largely limited to Top-40 music. And even then, the blame would be on the music industry, not the device. I've said it I don't know how many times here, the Loudness Wars are the most overblown thing in audio. I guess if your music is limited to Ke$ha or Metallica it impacts you but I can only think of a few albums that I've had that were so terribly compressed that they were unlistenable, and counter to that I've heard more excellent current recordings than ever before, as well as audiophile-targeted reissues by the dozens that are really well done.
The point is it's a point.
You asked for a counter-argument, I think it's a valid one despite the doubts raised by some in this thread. The more advanced my audio system gets, the worse a LOT of my CDs from the mid-nineties onward sound, and I don't listen to Top-40 music. Compression, big time. Maybe it's less of a problem with newer music, I have new releases that sound great, but they're usually classical.
Now I'll just note I don't think it's a good reason to entirely dismiss portable music players, and it's NO reason to denigrate those who use them, but the correlation shouldn't be dismissed out of hand IMO.
Hey guys, thanks for the comments on my point (valid or invalid as it may be).
I haven't had the time to read this whole thread, and I only skimmed these quoted comments actually, so I'll just say a few things and you'll have to excuse my poor and hurried exposition of them.
First,
even if the "compression problem" only holds in regard to certain genres, well, isn't that enough of a problem in itself? Maybe there are many of us (myself included) who listen to a diversity of genres, some that seem, in general, as if they will always be well recorded/produced (classical, jazz, singer/songwriter, blues, etc.) but what about those (myself included) who also listen to the genres that do suffer from being produced to sound as good as possible on lossy formats? Some of my favorite albums have been casualties of the loudness and now compression wars. And just because they are in "non audiophile" genres, that doesn't mean that fans of the material don't deserve better (let's not be genre elitists here!). We must remember that rock/pop material, was, after all, well produced for decades before the loudness and compression wars started to undermine their SQ starting in the mid to late 90's. Many of the albums that I hold as among the best produced in my collection come from these genres in fact.
And I also question that the decline of SQ only affects certain "non audiophile" genres. In my experience that simply is not so, such as with some contemporary classical and jazz releases. Some of the DR values for these recordings are relatively low for any genre and especially for these genres. I don't think we can reasonable hope that some genres are entirely insulated from the detrimental effects of the loudness/compression wars simply because they are such and such genre: they are all in the same pool, in the same tainted water, in effect.
Also, I think that the "blame the industry, not the device" is a classic case of putting the cart before the horse or reverse causation. That is, we have to ask
why the industry is compelled to release music with less than desirable SQ. And I think that the causes are twofold: the loudness wars (which, yes, I agree are over-hyped: yet they do constitute a real problem nonetheless) which are driven by the push to make the volume of material over and above other material so it stands out, as well as the newer drive to record in lesser fidelity so the material works better with lossy formats on less than high quality systems from portable to dock stations that are now so ubiquitous.
As for the "the argument is speculative" criticism, well, yes, it is in an important way as it is simply impossible to reach any general conclusion or truth in regards to such an issue. There are simply too many variables to pin down a single casual factor. We'd have to, for one thing, conduct a massive research project, such as analyzing DR numbers from various albums across decades and genres, to begin to really approach solid evidence for one position or another. But this is not to say that some general tentative positions with at least some evidential support can not be held on the matter.
I will say that just because an artist releases their material in lossless formats that this is no reason to think they are more concerned with SQ than others. After all, if the material is poorly recorded, then having a format that further reveals how poorly it is recorded does little to improve the SQ; in fact it only serves to make it sound worse (as do more revealing systems as Lin mentioned). There are many poorly recorded releases made available in lossless formats for download across genres. Also, there are many new artists that don't release their material in lossless formats either (besides the old cd) and yet their material is recorded just as well, or better, than those who do. Here we merely have anecdotal evidence on either side of the issue due to a person's single experience. And, as such, it can not be easily overgeneralized from to infer a universal condition that holds for all or even most cases. Thus I do not claim to be doing so.
Ok, I'll shut up now, but I do want to reinforce that I'm no format or gear or genre elitist and that I am happy however, wherever, and whenever music of whatever kind is enjoyed. I only worry about the effects of some technology (certain formats and gear) on the future aspects of well produced material which is important to me to be available for a long time.
PS: When I invoke DR values I must qualify that I don't worship these as absolute truth markers of the SQ of material. I don't think a mere number can be as objective or conclusive as that. I've analyzed the DR of some of my albums that I have long held as well produced and was surprised to see that some scored relatively low on this scale. I've also had the reverse hold true: some albums that I never particularly thought were all that well produced scored high on the DR scale. But, it is true that in general the DR score usually accords with my subjective impression of the SQ of the material. Thus why I think it is overall a useful tool in discussing matters such as these.
I also wanted to note that anyone who thinks that only "non audiophile" material is listened to in lossy or on less than high quality devices and setups should check out the various internet music oriented sites like LastFM, Spotify, Mog, etc. which only offer lossy streams and/or show what devices users are using to listen to their music. There you will find that many artists of "audiophile quality" genres, like classical and jazz, are routinely listened to by many listeners. So this implies that if so many are ok with listening to these genres in lossy quality than these genres are not immune to the deleterious effects that adhere to such formats.
Here is Bach on LastFM for instance. He has no less than 1.5 million listeners who have listened to him ("scrobbled" him) almost 30 million times. Some of those listeners will be like me who are listening to him on lossless formats, but most are probably listening to him with lossy formats/ lossy streaming.
http://www.last.fm/music/Johann+Sebastian+Bach
*I use LastFm as a way to keep track of all my music and find new music, so I "scrobble" from Winamp which I use to play all my FLAC files which I have ripped from thousands of cd's over the years. So that's why I joined there and I still only listen to lossless! :yes:
