King Crimson

[nitrous]

More King Crimson

Fripp instituted a "King Crimson Collectors' Club" a few years back, for which he released previously unavailable or bottlegged live concert material, many from the early years. One can now obtain legally & in best quality audio the original Hyde Park concert (in which KC opened for the Rolling Stones at the Brian Jones memorial concert), the Fillmore shows, & many excellent shows from the early 70s, with Mel Collins on sax & flute, Boz Burrell (later of Bad Co.), & Ian Wallace. The early 70 shows are very jazz bent, where Fripp lost control of the band & they really turned out some wild concerts.

PS Are you aware that Tony Levin was part of the alternate"YES" for awhile in "Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman, & Howe" in the late 80s? He played bass in ABWH as Squire fronted the "other " YES group consisting of White, Kaye & Rabin, as Anderson jumped from them to ABWH? Hence the "Union" YES.

 

[clairtonelab]

The early Crimson did have a free jazz twist. My favorite is Groon.

 

[WhiteSE]

I never think of KC has having much Jazz...in fact, Fripp was very against improvising, and admonished Bruford for trying to play things differently each night...THey used strange tones and combinations of scales and Fripp tunings maybe, but I just seem them on the left side of prog rock, but not Jazz/

 

[HIFIVINYL15]

i bought two KC lps on ebay, and they arrived today!!! i ahve been dying to listen to them for a long time. ever since i heard The Court of the Crimson King on the radio a couple months ago . currently spinning is "In the Court of the Crimson King", next up will be "In the Wake of Poseidon". these guys are amazing and what i've heard of this album so far kicks ass. i haven't even gotten to the second side, and already i want to hunt down more of their stuff. same thing happened to me with Frank Zappa after I listened to "Joes Garage Act 1" for the 50th time.

Whoa just realized this is my 100th post...

 

[clairtonelab]

Ok it wasn't jazz, but it was inspired by jazz. The reed solo on Schidzoid Man isn't what I'd call rock. Certainly sounds improvised to me. As for Groon, well that's jazz to me. Does jazz always have to be imrpovised? What was happening to jazz in the seventies? It started sounding like rock, and vice versa.

As for Zappa, expect some very obsure freaked out stuff. I can hardly get into it anymore.

 

[WhiteSE]

I never said that Jazz has to be improvised...I just find it an overused word when relating to King Crimson, thats all...Jazz Fusion was mostly rock with a bit of jazz flair as well....I just find the definitions are industry made.

 

[nitrous]

King Crimson as Jazz?

I never think of KC has having much Jazz...in fact, Fripp was very against improvising, and admonished Bruford for trying to play things differently each night...THey used strange tones and combinations of scales and Fripp tunings maybe, but I just seem them on the left side of prog rock, but not Jazz/

Jack, if you listen to the KC bootlegs from the 70s, you will hear jazz. That's what I meant by Fripp losing control of the band on the road. Once the concert started, the band members were free to wander away from Fripp's compositions, into the jazz ether. Fripp increasingly lost patience with the various KC members, hence the revolving door in the lineup, as the band members refused to play the compositions as Fripp wanted it. This is evident on "Earthbound," the only officially released live LP by KC (with the exception of USA Live) in the 70s.

 

[WhiteSE]

I would have loved to hear Fripp curse one out...I saw a video of Jon Anderson laying onto someone big time...Kinda funny...

 

[clairtonelab]

On the early albums, there's no doubt that some of the musiscians had a jazz backgound (the winds, drums) and it certainly influenced the music. But I won't qualify Fripp as a jazz guitarist. Fripp is Fripp. Later on, Bruford certainly brought some jazzy stuff, or should he be qualified as a "fusion" drummer?

 

[nitrous]

Bruford is a jazz drummer. He joined YES to make a living, which he probably was unable to do as a jazz drummer at the time. His jazz group is known as Earthworks.

 

[WhiteSE]

Bruford himself thought that Yes was more or less a jazzy group. especially when Peter Banks was the guitar player....It was the first group that he had seen that could sing 3 part harmonies. Listening to Bruford in KC, i still fail to hear much difference.
Honestly, to my ears, Bruford played more interesting parts in Yes that in Crimson...Probably because Wetton (imo) isnt as creative as Squire. In those days the Jazziest Bruford appeard in Fragile.

His drumming and composing with Earthworks is stupendous...I love most of the Earthworks stuff...especially after he went back to acoustic drum kits.

 

[WhiteSE]

Probably would have made more money playing for the Bee Gees.

:thumbsdn: :tears:

 

[clairtonelab]

I agree about Wetton, nothing very exciting. Always was a Bruford fan, even in the 80's albums. Very creative, but those octogonal Simmons drums had the worst sound.

 

[WhiteSE]

lol..i actually liked the sound of them in the ABWH LP and tour....Bruford and Howe rip it together at the end of Starship Trooper....

 

[nitrous]

Bruford

I've seen Bruford play live moreso than any other musician. Countless times with King Crimson, Yes, Earthworks. Even once so him play with Genesis (!), when Phil Collins took over as lead singer and he was afraid that the percussion aspect of Genesis' sound would suffer; so Collins drafted Bruford to play the '76 tour (Trick of Tail tour, recorded as live "Seconds Out" LPs.)

 

[clairtonelab]

Quoting my deleted post :lmao:

 

[nitrous]

Bruford in Yes

lol..i actually liked the sound of them in the ABWH LP and tour....Bruford and Howe rip it together at the end of Starship Trooper....

Bruford's electronic sounds were especially awesome during the YES "Union" tour as well.

 

[clairtonelab]

Who else but Bruford could have backed Collins. I place Collins at the same level as Bruford. My favorites.

Just add Stewart Copeland and John Bonham.


(who really cares)

 

[3-LockBox]

Red or 'Larks' era is my fave

but I do like Discipline and Beat from the '80s. :yes:

I think Fripp stagnates after Beat. Three Of A Perfect Pair is somewhat puzzling in that side one is a blatant stab at mainstream, while side two is nearly unlistenable (thus the sides are labeled 'accessible' and 'excessive'). Thrak ('95) was very much a continuance of where they left off w/ 3OAPP, but is still a very well done album. I'm not thrilled with their output beyond Thrak, although Power To Believe has its moments.

Has anyone here seen the DVD from the the last tour?

I haven't, but I do have a DVD of their Thrak tour and its pretty good with a very comprehensive track list , but that Fripp fellow is a real flake. He sits in darkness while everyone else is spot-lighted. :scratch2:

 

[nitrous]

Fripp

that Fripp fellow is a real flake. He sits in darkness while everyone else is spot-lighted.

I once attended a KC concert in which Fripp sat with his back to the audience for most of the show. Also saw him at the World Financial Center WinterGarden, which was/is across the street from the World Trade Center towers. He loved to play his solo Frippertronic shows there, amongst the indoor palm trees. A beautiful setting (they've rebuilt it since 9/11.) Imagine the look of horror on the faces of the noontime audience eating their lunch as Fripp plays his nightmarish, "bats flying out of hell" Frippertronic sounds to the financial secretaries, brokers, & me.