Klipsch Forte acceptance
- Thread starter sony6060
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nrap
Active Member
knows everything about everything
Sorry if that post rubbed anybody the wrong way, just saying that sometimes there are things that are more expensive, that are better (I wouldn't spend that much on any vehicle). And when you dislike something that's cheaper, its not necessarily because its cheaper.
But in regards to the Fortes, what I'd really like is a lineup of all of the possibilities with them, to see if my assessment of them was just a matter of bad combinations of gear, and the variations you can get. From diaphragms to cabinet bracing to crossovers, it seems that there are such disparate options that saying "I've heard the Forte" is sometimes no closer to somebody's particular pair than having heard a totally different speaker altogether. If that makes sense. I'll never see a lineup like that but I'll keep giving them a chance, because a lot of people really enjoy them.
But in regards to the Fortes, what I'd really like is a lineup of all of the possibilities with them, to see if my assessment of them was just a matter of bad combinations of gear, and the variations you can get. From diaphragms to cabinet bracing to crossovers, it seems that there are such disparate options that saying "I've heard the Forte" is sometimes no closer to somebody's particular pair than having heard a totally different speaker altogether. If that makes sense. I'll never see a lineup like that but I'll keep giving them a chance, because a lot of people really enjoy them.
My Fortes - fed with a quality source and amp - sound better than nearly anything new that I have heard in the past 20 years. Tus includes speakers that retail for two and three times more than what I paid for the Fortes new 25 years ago.
The only thing I have heard that beats them is the Klipschorn, the live sound and immediacy of which has haunted me for years.
My Fortes sounded their best being fed be a McCormack DNA Deluxe; I have not experienced a more you-are-there sound in my home.
The only thing I have heard that beats them is the Klipschorn, the live sound and immediacy of which has haunted me for years.
My Fortes sounded their best being fed be a McCormack DNA Deluxe; I have not experienced a more you-are-there sound in my home.
SET12
Super Member
In general I would say so. Though they are a heck of a lot of fun even stock for many people. When I got some tube gear on a stock pair for the first time I heard them in a different light.
They are highly modifiable, and when extreme modifications are done the speaker can take on a remarkable improvement in performance. A performance level that can compete with products costing 5 times more then what I have in the cost of my mods.
After the extreme crossover mods I could never live with the stock Klipsch networks nor do I beleive I would be able to live with the well respected Crites or ALK networks for my listening needs.
But really look at the two networks side by side, I can tell you the sound of the large network coveys the strenght and the finesse of the larger network. There just isn't any comparison to a stock Forte which I have done with various listeners here. The difference is so profound I have had people request the stock pair stop playing in as little as 10 seconds.
Further improvements were the addition of Duelund midrange coupling caps and a Duelund resistor pictured below.
SET12
nrap
Active Member
do your crossovers stay outside the cabinet? they look big.
I've got a great pair of chorus and a rougher pair of forte II. I think the forte sounds better. Have the ti tweet diaphragms. Getting a pair of stands built for them. Next is the network. I'd love something like what you have SET12, but i need it to go in the cab.
The deal with the forte is, to my ears you'd have to spend a lot of cash to get a better sound. of course there are people that don't like them, just like anything, but the basis isn't always objective(just like those of us who love them).
I've got a great pair of chorus and a rougher pair of forte II. I think the forte sounds better. Have the ti tweet diaphragms. Getting a pair of stands built for them. Next is the network. I'd love something like what you have SET12, but i need it to go in the cab.
The deal with the forte is, to my ears you'd have to spend a lot of cash to get a better sound. of course there are people that don't like them, just like anything, but the basis isn't always objective(just like those of us who love them).
SET12
Super Member
Yes they are outboard. One doesn't have to have them out board of course the actual size of mine are the same size as the top of the Forte 1 cabinet. The advantage of mounting them outside is eliminating microphonics and the ability to change componets in a few minutes if so desired as all the parts sound different at least in my system anyway.
Inductors from my experience gave the biggest overall improvement. I am also using the Klipsch Titanium Mid which was a subjectively a huge improvement even over Bob Crites very nice mid that I ran for a year. One doesn't have to go with the big North Creek 8AWG inductors that I use but one could go as low as the 12AWG which is the lowest I would go with. And don't dismiss a large inductor for the tweeter as it was pretty amazing what the 8AWG did for Bob Crites Titanium that I use. After these air cores I will never use an iron core ever again.
SET12
Who makes this (see above)? Direct from Klipsch? eBay aftermarket? ???
moray james
Super Member
The ti mid is only available from Klipsch they cost about $186.00 a pair plus shipping
Part number for the dia kit is 163514 and in stock Best regards Moray James
Part number for the dia kit is 163514 and in stock Best regards Moray James
Tnx. Based upon your review I'll order a pair this Monday.
BECtoo
Well-Known Member
That is such a common problem with diaphragms in general. There can be years of receiving a diaphragm from a manufacturer without problems and suddenly, the diaphragms fail to meet specs. Almost seems like they forgot how to make them between two batches. More likely it is that a material became unavailable and they have to get a replacement material. This can take years to work out and may never get to the same point the original was.
Amazingly, we are at the same point now with the phenolic version of that same diaphragm. I have no idea whether or not the two manufacturing problems are related or not, but the last entire batch of the phenolics failed to meet specs. Now, there is no diaphragm, titanium or phenolic available to replace those diaphragms as far as I know.
Bob Crites
thamnosma
New Member
First day with mine
Brought mine home from the seller today, hooked them up to Quicksilver mini-mites running EL34's at 25 watts and, for now, the Quickie full function tubed preamp.
These are stock. I have zero chance of "extreme" tweaking them like SET12 has and if that's what one has to do to get a passing grade on these, I'd say it's pretty much hopeless for the masses, I mean me. One might as well become a speaker designer and market the product.
My initial impressions reflect both the positive and negative comments I've read on this thread. JohnVF's criticisms have some validity as there is a "boxiness" to the stock sound, at least compared to my ribbon hybrids with the ribbon unit sitting baffleless atop the bass box. On the other hand, there's a life to them that contrasts with maybe a bit more analytical sound from my ribbons. I've got some Johnny Otis on right now and the Forte's are doing a fine some of recreating a blues club atmosphere. They definitely sound better slouching down on the couch (mid-horn at ear level) than standing up.
Apparently the modifications are almost limitless, but as someone who is not really a DIY'er, I'm not exactly sure how much I can do. Just being practical. I've ordered the ALK crossovers and may get the Crites tweeter diaphrams. Beyond that, it's going to take reading posts here over and over to figure out how to brace a cabinet, build 12" stands, perform various damping procedures, and it seems endless other tweaks to "get the sound right". Perhaps it's a learning experience, perhaps a mistake.
On the other hand, Dave at Fastlane Audio has this bitchin' looking Monoco horn set-up and he's selling a demo for 3K, which I just can't put my hands on this moment. However, I probably wouldn't have to "tweak" them.
Could be that much depends on what music one listens to and how.
Brought mine home from the seller today, hooked them up to Quicksilver mini-mites running EL34's at 25 watts and, for now, the Quickie full function tubed preamp.
These are stock. I have zero chance of "extreme" tweaking them like SET12 has and if that's what one has to do to get a passing grade on these, I'd say it's pretty much hopeless for the masses, I mean me. One might as well become a speaker designer and market the product.
My initial impressions reflect both the positive and negative comments I've read on this thread. JohnVF's criticisms have some validity as there is a "boxiness" to the stock sound, at least compared to my ribbon hybrids with the ribbon unit sitting baffleless atop the bass box. On the other hand, there's a life to them that contrasts with maybe a bit more analytical sound from my ribbons. I've got some Johnny Otis on right now and the Forte's are doing a fine some of recreating a blues club atmosphere. They definitely sound better slouching down on the couch (mid-horn at ear level) than standing up.
Apparently the modifications are almost limitless, but as someone who is not really a DIY'er, I'm not exactly sure how much I can do. Just being practical. I've ordered the ALK crossovers and may get the Crites tweeter diaphrams. Beyond that, it's going to take reading posts here over and over to figure out how to brace a cabinet, build 12" stands, perform various damping procedures, and it seems endless other tweaks to "get the sound right". Perhaps it's a learning experience, perhaps a mistake.
On the other hand, Dave at Fastlane Audio has this bitchin' looking Monoco horn set-up and he's selling a demo for 3K, which I just can't put my hands on this moment. However, I probably wouldn't have to "tweak" them.
Could be that much depends on what music one listens to and how.
SET12
Super Member
If money were an issue and I wanted something extraordinary yet very reasonable in cost I no of nothing that is likely to be as satisfying as what DaveC did here http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=288022
Both DaveC and I listen to all kinds of music. I have heard DaveC's system and I can tell you I was shocked as much as he was to hear my system that inspired him to do the mods to his.
Network mods open up the speaker tremendously, both vertically and horizontally if the associated components have the capacity to express the equivalent size.
The modifications are not that hard, it was just getting started for me.
Chances are, even that 3K demo pair have what I call compromised networks. How good can mods be? well it is said, that they can be worth 5-10 times what you spend. For me I'd likely have to spend $10,000 on a commercial product to get what I need.
SET12
Both DaveC and I listen to all kinds of music. I have heard DaveC's system and I can tell you I was shocked as much as he was to hear my system that inspired him to do the mods to his.
Network mods open up the speaker tremendously, both vertically and horizontally if the associated components have the capacity to express the equivalent size.
The modifications are not that hard, it was just getting started for me.
Chances are, even that 3K demo pair have what I call compromised networks. How good can mods be? well it is said, that they can be worth 5-10 times what you spend. For me I'd likely have to spend $10,000 on a commercial product to get what I need.
SET12
thamnosma
New Member
Thanks, that's a fun thread to read though I just perused through it for the moment. Since I already ordered the ALK network for the Fortes, I'll live with that for awhile. Perhaps you should either publish the schematic for your network or, like I said, market the kit. Seems that there are enough Forte owners for it.
BTW, a nice clean vinyl recording of some Frank Sinatra has even these stock speakers sounding pretty nice.
BTW, a nice clean vinyl recording of some Frank Sinatra has even these stock speakers sounding pretty nice.
Boxiness reference. I do not hear that. However my Klipsch Forte was purchased with an added brace from side to side. Is that brace a 'standard known mod' to remove the boxiness sound? Anyone?
thamnosma
New Member
Just initial impressions compared to my other main speaker pair. At least, I understand where JohnVF is coming with his criticism. Yes, it seems Moray has posted often about bracing the cabinet. I'll have to reread some of those posts to understand exactly what to do.
However, initial impressions are just that. Initial. The Sinatra LP I just listened too sounded exquisite. I'm going to have to do some more rock n' roll reviewing to see if these speakers can resolve those recordings as well. I think it's going to be weaker on that front and where some of these mods must really shine.