Klipsch Forte acceptance

[gigbyt]

I find this almost shocking; I don't doubt that your modified Fortes are leaps and bounds above stock, but the little I have heard of the Klipschorn has left an indelible mark on my acoustic memory; I have never heard music that sounds as real and "there" - especially from orchestral material - in any other speaker in any system as from the 60th Anniversary Khorns I auditioned a few years ago.

I also agree, i've owned and heard forte's many many times with many different amps preamps cd players and turntables.

The K-horn is just in another league altogether, with a much sweeter midrange and better overall presentation by leaps and bounds.

I've found the fortes get screechy at higher volumes and lose their composure and bass gets boomy.

I've only heard stock fortes though, never modified ones, and are they really klipsch speakers still, once they have had their components stripped out and replaced?

I did once hear a pair of forte 2's that were driven by a magnavox console amp and tube phono stage and turntable in a rather small room and was very impressed by the synergy of that system.

I guess it really does come down to how we hear, and what we are looking for
in our music, as well as component synergy and room set up.YMMV

 

[hotroady]

I've only heard stock fortes though, never modified ones, and are they really klipsch speakers still, once they have had their components stripped out and replaced?

I think if you closely follow stock values of stock crossovers, and do not install lower DCR inductors. You are improving on the existing design.
Better autoformers better match the load to the amplifier.
Changing out drivers and horns, can alter it into something Klipsch never intended.
If Klipsch could install higher quality caps, coils, resistors at same price point, to make the same profit margin I think they would.
Same circuit+better parts= better Klipsch.

 

[moray james]

Well

I also agree, i've owned and heard forte's many many times with many different amps preamps cd players and turntables.

The K-horn is just in another league altogether, with a much sweeter midrange and better overall presentation by leaps and bounds.

I've found the fortes get screechy at higher volumes and lose their composure and bass gets boomy.

I've only heard stock fortes though, never modified ones, and are they really klipsch speakers still, once they have had their components stripped out and replaced?

I did once hear a pair of forte 2's that were driven by a magnavox console amp and tube phono stage and turntable in a rather small room and was very impressed by the synergy of that system.

I guess it really does come down to how we hear, and what we are looking for
in our music, as well as component synergy and room set up.YMMV

if you have a product and you just love it to death and you would not change one aspect of it one iota then leave it alone and take it to the grave with you just the way it came to you. That's great that's fine by me and that is very commendable and you have my respect and a little envy in seeing you find your happiness.
But if you are sniffing around hi-fi shops and spending time listening to your buddies system with a little lust in your heart or you are spending your time lurking in haunts such as these then there is a tale to be told and that tale is one of dissatisfaction and of wanting more. And if you want more what is the crime or sin in that? So by yourself more or make more out of what you have to hand.
What if I told you that there are ways to make those Forte not sound screechy while still using the original parts? What is it do you think that makes a Khorn sound so much better? Would it be a sin to learn what that something was and then apply that to a Forte? If what you started with has somehow lead you to looking else where for your pleasures then why the strong need to defend it so? "are they really klipsch speakers still, once they have had their components stripped out and replaced?"
My point is that you were not happy with them yet you defend them and shun the thought any disparaging remark against them while at the same time you are yourself looking for more. Why not take what you have and see fit to move forward with what has served you well til now?. I think that the reason that you cannot see your way to doing this is simply fear. Fear that you do not know what yo are doing. Fear that you may make a mistake, Fear that others will see you as a fool or see yo as someone who think you know better than they. Fear of wondering "how will I know"? Fear of fear.
So if these fears overwhelm you then do what you need to do. For me I choose to confront all those fear and take the chance and take the risk and learn from each and every mistake and failure. The failures teach you the most. To get up and to carry on when I make the mistake.
I am weary of hearing that "you can't do that" or "you should not do that" or "so and so would not approve of that". My gear my decisions my choices. I come hear to share and to learn and I only know one way to learn and that is by doing. What did PWK do in his life?
Rant over, please don't take this personally I see this all over and I think it is a shame I simply used your post as a springboard. Best regards Moray James.

 

[l-myers]

if you have a product and you just love it to death and you would not change one aspect of it one iota then leave it alone and take it to the grave with you just the way it came to you. That's great that's fine by me and that is very commendable and you have my respect and a little envy in seeing you find your happiness.
But if you are sniffing around hi-fi shops and spending time listening to your buddies system with a little lust in your heart or you are spending your time lurking in haunts such as these then there is a tale to be told and that tale is one of dissatisfaction and of wanting more. And if you want more what is the crime or sin in that? So by yourself more or make more out of what you have to hand.
What if I told you that there are ways to make those Forte not sound screechy while still using the original parts? What is it do you think that makes a Khorn sound so much better? Would it be a sin to learn what that something was and then apply that to a Forte? If what you started with has somehow lead you to looking else where for your pleasures then why the strong need to defend it so? "are they really klipsch speakers still, once they have had their components stripped out and replaced?"
My point is that you were not happy with them yet you defend them and shun the thought any disparaging remark against them while at the same time you are yourself looking for more. Why not take what you have and see fit to move forward with what has served you well til now?. I think that the reason that you cannot see your way to doing this is simply fear. Fear that you do not know what yo are doing. Fear that you may make a mistake, Fear that others will see you as a fool or see yo as someone who think you know better than they. Fear of wondering "how will I know"? Fear of fear.
So if these fears overwhelm you then do what you need to do. For me I choose to confront all those fear and take the chance and take the risk and learn from each and every mistake and failure. The failures teach you the most. To get up and to carry on when I make the mistake.
I am weary of hearing that "you can't do that" or "you should not do that" or "so and so would not approve of that". My gear my decisions my choices. I come hear to share and to learn and I only know one way to learn and that is by doing. What did PWK do in his life?
Rant over, please don't take this personally I see this all over and I think it is a shame I simply used your post as a springboard. Best regards Moray James.

That's quite a sermon; I'm glad you added the disclaimer at the end, because I am certain that neither gigbyt nor I intended any such suggestion. I am also among the "dissatisfied"; further exacerbated by the acoustic memory I have of my limited exposure to the Khorn.

The best my Fortes have sounded were when they were set up as a 2.1 channel music-listening system, being fed by a McCormack DNA-1 Deluxe power amp, with the sources routed through a McCormack TLC-1 passive preamp. I found this setup to be so revealing, every interconnect I tried affected the quality of sound, and there were recordings that I transported to, and could easily describe the location in three dimensions of the singers and instruments.

When I altered the system to play surround, I lowered the quality of the power and pre- sections, and the resulting changes (along with the extra digital signal processing) took away the detail in music sources, and even changes back to some higher-end gear have not fully compensated for the loss.

My Fortes at their best brought music alive to me, but that was blown away by the sound I heard from my audition of the Khorns. With orchestral music in particular (especially - not surprising - the horn section), there was a realism that could literally fool me into thinking that I was there, to a degree that my own system could never do... I credit this to the larger mid-horn and whole-room bass horn of the Khorn.

I have fantasies of constructing Cornscalas to try to approach this same sound (no appropriate corners for Khorns in the house), but finances do not allow.

I do not doubt that SET12's friend preferred the modded Forte to the Khorn, nor would I claim it as false without having heard them myself. I just find find it shocking that the same sound I have heard from the mighty Klipschorn could ever come from a Forte... Would that life and career allowed for more playing around with my own, but an upcoming wedding of my daughter and long-requested home improvements for the Mrs. are at the top of the list...

 

[sony6060]

That's quite a sermon; I'm glad you added the disclaimer at the end, because I am certain that neither gigbyt nor I intended any such suggestion. I am also among the "dissatisfied"; further exacerbated by the acoustic memory I have of my limited exposure to the Khorn.

The best my Fortes have sounded were when they were set up as a 2.1 channel music-listening system, being fed by a McCormack DNA-1 Deluxe power amp, with the sources routed through a McCormack TLC-1 passive preamp. I found this setup to be so revealing, every interconnect I tried affected the quality of sound, and there were recordings that I transported to, and could easily describe the location in three dimensions of the singers and instruments.

When I altered the system to play surround, I lowered the quality of the power and pre- sections, and the resulting changes (along with the extra digital signal processing) took away the detail in music sources, and even changes back to some higher-end gear have not fully compensated for the loss.

My Fortes at their best brought music alive to me, but that was blown away by the sound I heard from my audition of the Khorns. With orchestral music in particular (especially - not surprising - the horn section), there was a realism that could literally fool me into thinking that I was there, to a degree that my own system could never do... I credit this to the larger mid-horn and whole-room bass horn of the Khorn.

I have fantasies of constructing Cornscalas to try to approach this same sound (no appropriate corners for Khorns in the house), but finances do not allow.

I do not doubt that SET12's friend preferred the modded Forte to the Khorn, nor would I claim it as false without having heard them myself. I just find find it shocking that the same sound I have heard from the mighty Klipschorn could ever come from a Forte... Would that life and career allowed for more playing around with my own, but an upcoming wedding of my daughter and long-requested home improvements for the Mrs. are at the top of the list...

How does various Klipsch speakers compare to Altec 604s? Are the 604s more hype than performance?

Edit 12 hours later- It appears my question above shut this long term postings down. Was kind of wary when I posted last night.

 

[moray james]

604 are the real deal no doubt about that I prefer them to the Tannoy DC. I have not compared to Klipsch but I would personally expect a 604 to sound better than a Cornwall or Chorus ll but that's just my expectation. Best regards Moray James.

 

[hotroady]

How does various Klipsch speakers compare to Altec 604s? Are the 604s more hype than performance?

Edit 12 hours later- It appears my question above shut this long term postings down. Was kind of wary when I posted last night.

I have Altec Model 19's a couple prs of flagship Klipsch. 604'S and 19's are more comparible to Khorns than other Heritage lines.

 

[sony6060]

I have Altec Model 19's a couple prs of flagship Klipsch. 604'S and 19's are more comparible to Khorns than other Heritage lines.

Will 604s make the clean low bass of a Forte? Enclosure size?

 

[moray james]

Here is what you need to know about the 604. Great Plains Audio is Altec today, read the history. All you ever need to know about Altec is here and see the link for 604 info. Bass extension will be comparable to a Cornwall. Hope this is of interest. Best regards Moray James.

PS: GPA can also recharge all your old Altec Alnico motors.

http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/2_way.html
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads/604_8H_III.pdf

 

[nrap]

The guys are Great Plains are awesome
they are just up the highway a few minutes from me, they'll do work on JBL stuff as well
guy i know had a pair of the 604s and recently had an accident and destroyed the cone of one of them =(

I go back and forth between my chorus i and forte ii
i think that may change once i get the stands put under the fortes
they do sound very very similar though.
had a great listening session with the chorus the other day. with some types of music they are great. But i think the forte seems to be more consistent across genres maybe
or maybe i just put too much thought into all of it?

 

[SimplyOrange]

I apologize if I'm late in this thread.

I had a pair of CF3s, and wasn't really satisfied with them. The Forte's did the trick :thmbsp: And that was without any of the Crites upgrades. But soon going to upgrade the tweeters and eventually the crossovers. I really love these speakers though, especially the bass response :yes:

 

[moray james]

I apologize if I'm late in this thread.

I had a pair of CF3s, and wasn't really satisfied with them. The Forte's did the trick :thmbsp: And that was without any of the Crites upgrades. But soon going to upgrade the tweeters and eventually the crossovers. I really love these speakers though, especially the bass response :yes:

Do you know which CF3 revision you had? There were three revisions with the first being the very best ans the second being second best. Dual tens bu the way will push as much air as 1 1/2 twelve inch woofers. I is likely that you never listened to your CF raised up either. When the horns are centred on your seated ear level thy are excellent.
You might want to consider opting for the titanium mid diaphragm for your forte that to me has the single largest impact you can make with drivers, the biggest improvement you can make is crossover and cabinet brace work and re tune you passives down a little lower about 3-4 Hz. I have had Quartet, Forte, Forte ll, KLF20 and CF3 and rate the CF3 the very best of the lot with some mods and raising the horns (a must). Best regards Moray James.

 

[SET12]

if you have a product and you just love it to death and you would not change one aspect of it one iota then leave it alone and take it to the grave with you just the way it came to you. That's great that's fine by me and that is very commendable and you have my respect and a little envy in seeing you find your happiness.
But if you are sniffing around hi-fi shops and spending time listening to your buddies system with a little lust in your heart or you are spending your time lurking in haunts such as these then there is a tale to be told and that tale is one of dissatisfaction and of wanting more. And if you want more what is the crime or sin in that? So by yourself more or make more out of what you have to hand.
What if I told you that there are ways to make those Forte not sound screechy while still using the original parts? What is it do you think that makes a Khorn sound so much better? Would it be a sin to learn what that something was and then apply that to a Forte? If what you started with has somehow lead you to looking else where for your pleasures then why the strong need to defend it so? "are they really klipsch speakers still, once they have had their components stripped out and replaced?"
My point is that you were not happy with them yet you defend them and shun the thought any disparaging remark against them while at the same time you are yourself looking for more. Why not take what you have and see fit to move forward with what has served you well til now?. I think that the reason that you cannot see your way to doing this is simply fear. Fear that you do not know what yo are doing. Fear that you may make a mistake, Fear that others will see you as a fool or see yo as someone who think you know better than they. Fear of wondering "how will I know"? Fear of fear.
So if these fears overwhelm you then do what you need to do. For me I choose to confront all those fear and take the chance and take the risk and learn from each and every mistake and failure. The failures teach you the most. To get up and to carry on when I make the mistake.
I am weary of hearing that "you can't do that" or "you should not do that" or "so and so would not approve of that". My gear my decisions my choices. I come hear to share and to learn and I only know one way to learn and that is by doing. What did PWK do in his life?
Rant over, please don't take this personally I see this all over and I think it is a shame I simply used your post as a springboard. Best regards Moray James.

Well said :thmbsp:

Just as PWK was a pioneer so was the late Steen Duelund. He often would design networks where the cost of the network components were more costly then the drivers themselves. Today Steens parts are used in many of worlds finest loudspeakers. When I acted on a hunch that I could substantially better the stock networks in my Forte's I was unaware of Steen Duelunds thoughts on the subject of networks or his designing of parts that he spent a life time doing.

I sure understand why today well beyond what I even remotely hoped for. Like this RF25 project. The network mod replacement cost as much as the RF25's were new. For DaveC the performance had to my ears yielded a level of of performance that virtually would have cost him thousands IMO his return on investment yielded at least a 5x return. They are that good.

I was just partially satisfied with the Forte sound, but I stumbled on North Creek Inductor site and was so intrigued after reading George's Inductor FAQ's with his background and education. I took the risk, but the journey wasn't real easy but I had to start somewhere and before I knew it the project was completed. Little did I know it would me one of the most satisfying projects I have ever undertaken.

SET12

 

[thamnosma]

Like I said before, SET12, I think you ought to market those networks. Some people will go for Crites' restoration of the original network, other for ALK affordable re-design and perhaps yours at the appropriate mark-up.

I just got my VPI Aries back from Upscale Audio with a new replacement Dynavector 20x cart, so got that plugged into the system replacing the temporary Victor TT71. The Victor is a nice stand-in but the VPI has opened things up and the Fortes are really rockin' but cleaner. I can really see how one might build on what the Fortes offer in their basic configuration.

 

[SET12]

Like I said before, SET12, I think you ought to market those networks. Some people will go for Crites' restoration of the original network, other for ALK affordable re-design and perhaps yours at the appropriate mark-up.

I just got my VPI Aries back from Upscale Audio with a new replacement Dynavector 20x cart, so got that plugged into the system replacing the temporary Victor TT71. The Victor is a nice stand-in but the VPI has opened things up and the Fortes are really rockin' but cleaner. I can really see how one might build on what the Fortes offer in their basic configuration.

Its $500 in parts a lone. $300 North Creek 12AWG inductors, $120 in Mundorf Supreme caps, and $80 for auto-transformers. To be worth my time and effort I would require about $750. Are you looking for some?

Glade to hear that your enjoying your phono. My phono is currently retired but if it was up and running the Fortes would be frighten by the sight of it.

The system doesn't look like much but it sure sings.

Here are some opinions I pulled from my now 40 page thread on my networks on what could be achieved if your wondering just how far a pair of Fortes can go. Also with a second opinion from jdg123 who drove 450mi to hear them needless to say he wasn't disappointed only more enthused more then ever of what is possible from Klipsch. He eventually switched his LaScala ALK ES networks for DIY ALK Universal's which work better with his now 1.6 watt monoblock amplifiers that he built from a circuit design of mine.

Hello gentlemen,

I am not one who posts much on forums, but I cannot hold myself back any longer. SET12 has been a great friend and audio buddy of mine for many years now. I have seen his talents in regards to diy audio grow from doing audio repairs, to modifying circuits, to doing some absolutely outstanding scratch build projects. This guy is incredible with the knowledge that he has accrued over the years and he has earned my total and complete respect. It is both an honor and my pleasure to have him as my friend.

So what has prompted me to write this post? Let me tell ya......I was at SET12's house today and we had about a 3 hour listening session, like we do from time to time. Now keep in mind, he has been doing a lot of mod's to his speakers which has been well documented here over the past 30 some pages. I have heard these speakers of his ever since he has had them and have heard them after each step of the modification process. Each time I could hear improvements in what he was doing. A few weeks ago, I was at his home listening to his system and I told him that I cannot believe how far these speakers have come along since he has started. These speakers are a different animal......in a completely different league all together and I told him how proud of him I was in what he has accomplished. But I still didn't come on the forum and write about it.....I guess maybe because I just don't feel comfortable writing in "reviewer speak" .

So why now? He did something today that not many people have the opportunity to do. He gave me an A/B/A audition of his modified speakers vs. a stock pair of Fortes. We all have made upgrades over time with various aspects of our systems and much of the time we have to rely on our memories of what something used to sound like. Well today, we didn't need our memories and we had quite an experience to say the least. We listened to his first. Beautiful sounding as always. Then we quickly hooked up the stock Fortes. Now please try and understand my intentions as I go on here. I am not trying to be rude, offensive, or disrespectful in any way, shape, or form. I am trying to be constructive with my comments but will be also direct and to the point. When we switched over to the stock Fortes, I could not believe my ears. The difference that I heard from going from the modded Fortes to the stock Fortes was so great that I think I may have been in shock. It has been so long since I have heard a stock pair of Fortes that I had forgotten what they had sounded like. My memory of them were that they were dynamic, fun to listen to, and overall a decent speaker. After listening to the modded Fortes and then switching over to the stock.....I literally could not listen through the entirety of a whole song. They were lifeless, they sounded restrained and congested. They sounded like what detail they had was being smeared. And what got me the most was the tonality. The voice, the piano, the cymbals, etc.....none of it sounded right. I literally asked SET12 to stop playing the song because it was grating on my ears....the listener fatigue was so high, and the sounds coming from the stock speakers were so displeasing that I could not take it any more.

Now, I know that these words are probably not going to sit well with a lot of you who own stock Fortes. But please understand me that when I write these things....I am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. What I am trying to do is light a fire under you to either come and hear SET12's speakers for yourself, or do these mod's and create a monster of a speaker system.

With these modded Fortes...the voices, and timbre of instruments sound correct. You do not hear the Klipsch's horns and their resonance distorting the sound as it leaves the speaker. These modded Fortes sound effortless across the entire frequency. Very balanced sounding. I know there are people that think...."I'll upgrade from Fortes to K-horns instead of keeping the Fortes and doing the mod's." Let me tell you from personal experience. That will not be an upgrade and you will have regrets if you do that. I have owned K-horns and I would take SET12's modded Fortes as they are right now any day over the K-horns that I once owned. These modded Fortes sound like each driver had their own amplifier. There was no sign of congestion. They are smooooth! They are full of detail throughout the entire frequency and the entire soundstage (which is the biggest soundstage I have ever heard!) They are full sounding and have dynamics that seem to belie the laws of physics. When you look at these speakers, you certainly will not think that they look very big......but these modded Fortes will beg to differ with you and will win that argument all day long with the sound they throw at you. They are huge sounding! These speakers are no longer Fortes, and I dare say they are no longer Klipsch. I have to believe that they are head and shoulders above and beyond anything Paul Klipsch had ever heard come out of his workshop, and I believe with all my heart that if he could hear SET12's modded Fortes....that he would be as proud of him as I am.

These modifications that SET12 has done to these speakers are seriously real upgrades. So many times people will make changes to their audio system hoping for it to be an upgrade in sound and performance and all they end up with is a change in their system.....not necessarily for the better, just something different. I understand that there are financial costs associated with these upgrades, but I will tell you flat out that it will be worth every penny you put into it and many times over. The only regrets that you will have is wondering why you waited so long to do it. If you can't afford to do everything all at once, please do yourself a favor and talk with SET12 and get his opinions on which things to tackle first and which ones make the most sonic benefits for the time and money that you will be willing to put into it. SET12 is a top notch guy and loves to talk about all things audio. He'll steer you in the right direction.

And I should probably say that I have no financial interests or ties whatsoever to the proprietors of these various mods. I just want to convey to everyone what I have heard and witnessed so that it may be of help to you.

Warmest regards,
No Regrets

I had the pleasure of visiting and listening to SET 12's system last week. He's a seriously nice guy, very helpful and true to the cause: good amps, good system, good sound. I am not sure what is the most significantly different about his system. He and I connected over issues of crossovers and amp power supply. He has very little that is stock in his whole system save the interconnect from CDP to amp and even that was a sonic surprise. What he has got going on is really breathtaking.

I hope I can use the phrase: balls-of-steel here, cause I just did. It is the only way I can discribe the percussive force his system puts forth. If you have ever sat in from of someone who is practicing drums so that you only concentrate on the drums, they sound different in isolation (I have a friend who is a drummer). There is a scariness to that impact sometimes, you feel it in your whole body and it can make your heart race. And there is a very specific sound to each drum, not just by type of drum but within each type they vary by materials and manufacture. Each drum has a signature, I have never heard it portrayed so well by any speaker, ever.

I have some heavily modified Klipsch La scalas that I use in conjunction with a pair of HSU subwoofers, under their own power, with their own feed and crossovers; I can't touch what SET 12 has in his livingroom. It is powerful!

The top end is sweet and clear too. He did not tune for only that percussive bass.

My system is different, I have come to love it for what it does well but now...I want a little more of that mighty magic. True to form, he has offered to answer my questions and assist me in securing "that sound" through better circuts and better materials. Knowledge rocks! You should hear for yourself what it does for SET 12's system.

jdg123

SET12

 

[sony6060]

Trying to get my arms around this.........

Its $500 in parts a lone. $300 North Creek 12AWG inductors, $120 in Mundorf Supreme caps, and $80 for auto-transformers. To be worth my time and effort I would require about $750. Are you looking for some?

Glade to hear that your enjoying your phono. My phono is currently retired but if it was up and running the Fortes would be frighten by the sight of it.

The system doesn't look like much but it sure sings.

Here are some opinions I pulled from my now 40 page thread on my networks on what could be achieved if your wondering just how far a pair of Fortes can go. Also with a second opinion from jdg123 who drove 450mi to hear them needless to say he wasn't disappointed only more enthused more then ever of what is possible from Klipsch. He eventually switched his LaScala ALK ES networks for DIY ALK Universal's which work better with his now 1.6 watt monoblock amplifiers that he built from a circuit design of mine.

SET12

I owned a few speakers & migrated to Klipsch Forte. Scan Speaks do not get it. A 7" Scan Speak woofer does not play musical bass. Horns are more dynamic. I hear potential in these Fortes.

I bought these speakers with Crites tweeters, an internal brace & Crites crossover capacitors upgrade.

I just found K52 titanium midrange kit with Crites 6kHz filters. I am reading North Creek air core inductors (2) per speaker are important.

What else am I missing? Dampening tricks to horns? Even better crossover capacitors? I see Solen? Solen never did it for me. Mundorf Silver- ok. Duelund- $450 each? Right?

For the hell of it I also bought a Altec 604D just to hear the horn side. Frankly, I am skeptical of the horn being out of this world and worry the 604 will not play as musical bass as the Forte. Perhaps the midrange is to die for, but I am not finished with the Forte either. We shall see.

 

[SET12]

I owned a few speakers & migrated to Klipsch Forte. Scan Speaks do not get it. A 7" Scan Speak woofer does not play musical bass. Horns are more dynamic. I hear potential in these Fortes.

I bought these speakers with Crites tweeters, an internal brace & Crites crossover capacitors upgrade.

I just found K52 titanium midrange kit with Crites 6kHz filters. I am reading North Creek air core inductors (2) per speaker are important.

What else am I missing? Dampening tricks to horns? Even better crossover capacitors? I see Solen? Solen never did it for me. Mundorf Silver- ok. Duelund- $450 each? Right?

For the hell of it I also bought a Altec 604D just to hear the horn side. Frankly, I am skeptical of the horn being out of this world and worry the 604 will not play as musical bass as the Forte. Perhaps the midrange is to die for, but I am not finished with the Forte either. We shall see.

I have heard mini monitors like the Pro Ac Response II's http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/792proac they are a $3000 mini monitor that do have bass which have a custom 6.5in scan woofers and we are not talking your typical ordinary bass from a typical 6.5in driver there is nothing wimpy about them. I have heard a # of speakers that produce very high quality bass from small drivers. I have heard these Lorelei http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-lorelei.html and while I listened to them for the first time I was looking all over the room for the sub, just like people do with my Forte's. They are pretty incredible but don't have the efficiency of a Klipsch.

Glad you have found the Titanium's, I had gathered they weren't available. I have the Forte 1's and the Forte ones crossover point is higher as it uses 1.5uf caps vs the 2uf caps that the Forte II uses. The Klipsch specs say 6000hz for the Forte I while the Forte II specs say 7000hz. The tweeter comes on later for the Forte 1 due to the smaller cap size so I think the Klipsch published spec is wrong. It was one option that Bob mentioned that might be done was to shift the crossover up for the tweeter anyway. I have no issues with the Forte 1 in this regard. And in reality the tweeter network is wrong according to ALK by PWK's own admission to him. ALK talks about the issue on his website. ALK also talks about why the mid network is wrong to. But its my understanding that PWK preferred a high impedance network for lower distortion. In the end subjectively the stock network values work for me.

North Creek Inductors are very important. Iron core inductors simply compress the sound substantially. The two stock inductors changed to North Creek are a substantial improvement more than caps IMO. Though I don't take any part lightly. The Crites 6khz kit uses an iron core inductor of substantial mH size which can be costly in a North Creek air core of a large AWG. IMO using an iron core in the mid is going to do more harm then good at least with a Forte 1 so if I had a Forte II I would shift the crossover frequency up its a simpler solution IMO.

Yes the horns are damped with caulk rope.

Yes I use better caps, the Solen is used in parallel with the woofer. My amplifiers run on Solens in the final power supply stages on my amplifiers they work very well for that. I would never use a Solen in a crossover network in series with any driver but I really like DaveC's Mundorf "M" caps with North Creek so perhaps I will try them out. Although I am using a 2uF Mundorf "M" cap in parallel as a bypass to the 45 uF Solen being used to get the 47uF total that the network specifies. But if your using an iron core inductor for the Forte bass IMO your missing a lot of imformation and control more so then what the cap is doing. The stock inductor is using what appears to be 22AWG wire that is 40ft long after measuring its lenght.

Duelund now has a couple of new lines of caps that could be used. Mine are the Copper VSF 1 uF 100VDC now on sale for $141 each http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_duelund_vsf_speaker.html yes I use Mundorf Silver\Oil for the tweeters with the Duelund coupled to the Auto-transformer.

I use German C-Cores with 14- 1db attenuatin steps pictured here in contrast to the stock auto-transformers which are rather poor in contrast to the performance from the C-Cores including shipping cost me $250 a pair when I purchased mine but now I estimate about $300 shipped from Germany they normally come with 1.5 db steps. The 1 db steps can be had for the asking at no charge.

Here is a link but it won't last long http://www.ebay.de/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221192790187&ssPageName=ADME:B:FSELE:1123

Here are the Crites in yellow contrasting the stock and from what I'm told ALK uses the same.

I believe I have heard a 604D at AKfest but can't be absolutely sure. If I did it wasn't set up like this 604H http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/altec/dream.html

Looks to be very interesting, I would like to hear them. But I have yet to hear anything like what these Fortes are doing with 10 watts or what jdg123's modified LaScala's are doing with 1.6 watts. I should say I have but often at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars.

The beauty of the Forte is its size and what it can do in a large or small room. Also the fact that thousands were made and can be had for as little as 5-$700 in pristine condition. I like the fact that the driver replacements can be relatively easy to acquire. Even if the Titanium mids stop being manufactured I can always purchase used Klipsch products to get them. BTW it sounds like if you have the right Altec it is quite capable of some really nice low end in the right cabinets.

What I really like to do is design amplifiers. I needed an efficient speaker so the Fortes worked good for my 10 watt SET mono's then I wanted to hear more after I heard a friends LaScala's modified with ALK networks which made them sing and thought I should try something little did I know I would create something that could stand with giants.

SET12

 

[sony6060]

I have heard mini monitors like the Pro Ac Response II's http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/792proac they are a $3000 mini monitor that do have bass which have a custom 6.5in scan woofers and we are not talking your typical ordinary bass from a typical 6.5in driver there is nothing wimpy about them. I have heard a # of speakers that produce very high quality bass from small drivers. I have heard these Lorelei http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-lorelei.html and while I listened to them for the first time I was looking all over the room for the sub, just like people do with my Forte's. They are pretty incredible but don't have the efficiency of a Klipsch.

Glad you have found the Titanium's, I had gathered they weren't available. I have the Forte 1's and the Forte ones crossover point is higher as it uses 1.5uf caps vs the 2uf caps that the Forte II uses. The Klipsch specs say 6000hz for the Forte I while the Forte II specs say 7000hz. The tweeter comes on later for the Forte 1 due to the smaller cap size so I think the Klipsch published spec is wrong. It was one option that Bob mentioned that might be done was to shift the crossover up for the tweeter anyway. I have no issues with the Forte 1 in this regard. And in reality the tweeter network is wrong according to ALK by PWK's own admission to him. ALK talks about the issue on his website. ALK also talks about why the mid network is wrong to. But its my understanding that PWK preferred a high impedance network for lower distortion. In the end subjectively the stock network values work for me.

North Creek Inductors are very important. Iron core inductors simply compress the sound substantially. The two stock inductors changed to North Creek are a substantial improvement more than caps IMO. Though I don't take any part lightly. The Crites 6khz kit uses an iron core inductor of substantial mH size which can be costly in a North Creek air core of a large AWG. IMO using an iron core in the mid is going to do more harm then good at least with a Forte 1 so if I had a Forte II I would shift the crossover frequency up its a simpler solution IMO.

Yes the horns are damped with caulk rope.

Yes I use better caps, the Solen is used in parallel with the woofer. My amplifiers run on Solens in the final power supply stages on my amplifiers they work very well for that. I would never use a Solen in a crossover network in series with any driver but I really like DaveC's Mundorf "M" caps with North Creek so perhaps I will try them out. Although I am using a 2uF Mundorf "M" cap in parallel as a bypass to the 45 uF Solen being used to get the 47uF total that the network specifies. But if your using an iron core inductor for the Forte bass IMO your missing a lot of imformation and control more so then what the cap is doing. The stock inductor is using what appears to be 22AWG wire that is 40ft long after measuring its lenght.

Duelund now has a couple of new lines of caps that could be used. Mine are the Copper VSF 1 uF 100VDC now on sale for $141 each http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_duelund_vsf_speaker.html yes I use Mundorf Silver\Oil for the tweeters with the Duelund coupled to the Auto-transformer.

I use German C-Cores with 14- 1db attenuatin steps pictured here in contrast to the stock auto-transformers which are rather poor in contrast to the performance from the C-Cores including shipping cost me $250 a pair when I purchased mine but now I estimate about $300 shipped from Germany they normally come with 1.5 db steps. The 1 db steps can be had for the asking at no charge.

Here is a link but it won't last long http://www.ebay.de/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221192790187&ssPageName=ADME:B:FSELE:1123

Here are the Crites in yellow contrasting the stock and from what I'm told ALK uses the same.

I believe I have heard a 604D at AKfest but can't be absolutely sure. If I did it wasn't set up like this 604H http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/altec/dream.html

Looks to be very interesting, I would like to hear them. But I have yet to hear anything like what these Fortes are doing with 10 watts or what jdg123's modified LaScala's are doing with 1.6 watts. I should say I have but often at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars.

The beauty of the Forte is its size and what it can do in a large or small room. Also the fact that thousands were made and can be had for as little as 5-$700 in pristine condition. I like the fact that the driver replacements can be relatively easy to acquire. Even if the Titanium mids stop being manufactured I can always purchase used Klipsch products to get them. BTW it sounds like if you have the right Altec it is quite capable of some really nice low end in the right cabinets.

What I really like to do is design amplifiers. I needed an efficient speaker so the Fortes worked good for my 10 watt SET mono's then I wanted to hear more after I heard a friends LaScala's modified with ALK networks which made them sing and thought I should try something little did I know I would create something that could stand with giants.

SET12

I owned Pro Ac 2.5 Response- no contest compared to Forte. Perhaps my ears, my equipment matches better- it is what it is per my ears. I build SET amps for fun. Iron is expensive, but......

So just build new crossovers & skip the Crites 6kHz add on. I'll pay the costs, but those German iron transformers. How does one buy them? Not listed in eBay USA. EDIT- Never mind, I just sign in & bought them. Thanks for heads up. In fact, parts kind of look like girls to me. Those are nice puppies.

 

[Polarbear]

"Like I said before, SET12, I think you ought to market those networks. Some people will go for Crites' restoration of the original network, other for ALK affordable re-design and perhaps yours at the appropriate mark-up."


I really doubt there's much of a market for $2000 dollar crossovers.

 

[sony6060]

Forte Schematic with Parts Mods

So, this is correct? I am not sure of German C core wiring.