Klipsch Forte acceptance

[grinnell]

I don't have the Fortes but have the smaller Quartets with upgraded tweets and Crites xover. I have used it with my Primaluna PL2 and have it hooked up to a Vista Audio I84 10wpc PP el84 int amp.

The sound is different from my De Capos of course but still pleasing and quite good. Horns are different. I do agree that bracing would help decrease the boxiness and that may be the upgrade i do. The tweets and xovers were done by the previous owner so I can't compare before and after

 

[moray james]

Just initial impressions compared to my other main speaker pair. At least, I understand where JohnVF is coming with his criticism. Yes, it seems Moray has posted often about bracing the cabinet. I'll have to reread some of those posts to understand exactly what to do.

However, initial impressions are just that. Initial. The Sinatra LP I just listened too sounded exquisite. I'm going to have to do some more rock n' roll reviewing to see if these speakers can resolve those recordings as well. I think it's going to be weaker on that front and where some of these mods must really shine.

If you take a look at this thread there are two different cabinets which I braced. The Quarter are by far the better job though the KLF20 was effective it was a very fast and dirty job but it works. The Quartet has each side split lengthwise with a 3/4"x2.5" plywood brace you can see the horizontal front baffle braced along with smaller baffle braces The back baffle is stiffened as much as possible. All panels are then tied together to prevent movement in either direction (in or out). Bracing like this removes mechanical noise and distortion which smears details.
There is no one modification which will solve all the problems a speaker has. You have to deal with all the issues including the new issues some of you mods will sometimes generate. You will end up having to re voice your loudspeaker. If you don't think that you are up to all of this then don't go there of follow a tried example. Just as a small example the high density fiberglass that I used in my H3 was very twitchy to work with not enough and disappointing bass too much and disappointing bass. Just the right amount and bass. A piece the size of the palm of your hand and you could make or break the results. The way that the damping material was applied made a huge difference it the frontal wave was moving across the damping side to side or if the wave was moving into the edge of the fiberglass. A lot of time and effort was taken to achieve the desired results. More time and effort than I think the average diy builder is willing to spend.
I don't tell you this to discourage any of you but to warn you that it is not as easy as it seems but if you persist you can achieve results. All reductions in resonances mechanical and acoustical should be considered a step forward as they all add up and contribute to an improve sounding loudspeaker. Best regards Moray James.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=372783&highlight=klf20

 

[SET12]

I have capacitor upgrades? Can I replace the inductors with 12ga? What are values?

You sure can, prices http://www.northcreekmusic.com/NorthCreekCoilPrices.PDF
These are better then Solens but if had to I would buy the Solens but I just looked and the North Creek 3.0mH are the same price $120.52. The North Creeks would be it for me. Low tension wound to avoid micro fractures and varnish impregnated to kill resonance. You won't believe how good the your tweeters with these in combo with Bob's Titanium tweeters. I tried some Litz Inductors and just could stand them. The North Creek was back to heaven.

The .16mH has to be special wound as mine are and is the next price up which would be $23.55 each.

When you mount these they must be attached with nothing magnetic, meaning plastic tied or nylon tie mounts with brass screws if you have to.

Here is the Forte2

SET12

 

[tem2169]

You sure can, prices http://www.northcreekmusic.com/NorthCreekCoilPrices.PDF
These are better then Solens but if had to I would buy the Solens but I just looked and the North Creek 3.0mH are the same price $120.52. The North Creeks would be it for me. Low tension wound to avoid micro fractures and varnish impregnated to kill resonance. You won't believe how good the your tweeters with these in combo with Bob's Titanium tweeters. I tried some Litz Inductors and just could stand them. The North Creek was back to heaven.

The .16mH has to be special wound as mine are and is the next price up which would be $23.55 each.

When you mount these they must be attached with nothing magnetic, meaning plastic tied or nylon tie mounts with brass screws if you have to.

Here is the Forte2

SET12

SET,

I would love to try some of these mods to my Quartet crossovers, but unfortunately, I wouldn't even know where to start. Any good forum threads on crossover mods? I have Crites crossovers, which I understand are very good improvements on the originals. I took a look at ALK but his solutions don't address the Quartets. Perhaps my return on investment would not be realized given what Bob Crites has improved in the original setup. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[moray james]

Bob rebuilds the original network and in most cases he only installs new same value capacitors sometimes he will also install upgraded auto transformers. So in a nutshell Bob's networks are Klipsch networks. Al Klappenburger does modify the circuits. Best regards Moray James.

 

[SET12]

SET,

I would love to try some of these mods to my Quartet crossovers, but unfortunately, I wouldn't even know where to start. Any good forum threads on crossover mods? I have Crites crossovers, which I understand are very good improvements on the originals. I took a look at ALK but his solutions don't address the Quartets. Perhaps my return on investment would not be realized given what Bob Crites has improved in the original setup. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Here is what I think is your Quartet I don't know what the reference to Heresy X is though. Also I can't make out the cap value but I'm guessing 50uf and the Inductor for the tweeter looks like the fairly standard .16mH that the Forte uses.

As Moray say's here "Bob rebuilds the original network and in most cases he only installs new same value capacitors sometimes he will also install upgraded auto transformers. So in a nutshell Bob's networks are Klipsch networks. Al Klappenburger does modify the circuits. Best regards Moray James."

I haven't seen anything from Al on any work for the Quartet.

To get some of what I have from my modified Forte's from Quartets you would have to at least go North Creek 12AWG on Inductors and that would set you back $334 you can use everything in Bob's networks just substitute the Inductors and you should notice a whole different animal. The North Creeks will be big but you can mount them on the cabinet side walls or possibly the on the bottom of the cabinet. I would use nylon tie mounts with brass screws then nylon tie them down. So your basically just putting additional wire onto the inductors with crimp ends the same size that Bob uses and you disconnect Bobs inductors and connect the North Creeks.

If your thinking about possibly someone else's inductors you'd better think again read this http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/14/147282.html

Why did the other inductors sound different read this North Creek FAQ's and what the difference is between AWG's http://www.northcreekmusic.com/COILS.html

And if you went 10AWG it would cost $560 for the four inductors.

The $334 in not to much to ask IMO. These inductors get a grip on the bass that has to be heard to be appreciated. But of course your associated gear has to be capable as well. If the associated gear is not up to par with the speaker then one thinks the mods shed little improvement. One just can't depend on the speaker alone. Its a system as a whole. Really its the weakest link that is actually expressed in the system.

I always like to say if you love them go for it.

Other alternatives, if I had to choose between your Quartet and your RF35's I see you own I think I'd try the RF35's they maybe less costly. Even though I have some reservations about an 8in woofer in a two way as if the past I found they just didn't have the speed to be used. The mid's always sounded lethargic lacking in impact. But then again I have not heard a two-way using North Creek Inductors either with an 8in two-way speaker

I have heard DaveC's RF25's with 6.5in woofers and they are spectacularly musical with very plentiful bass. Although looking at the RF25 spec's one would believe they might not go deep enough. Though listening to DaveC's RF25's you really don't notice any real low end grunt missing. The thing about the North Creeks is they give you body and coherency with control throughout their working range this is why they may work very well with an 8in woofer giving the 8in a chance while common Iron Core's are simply vague with not much control in my experience. Think about the upper range beyond a sub like 120hz to 700hz or so not good with iron core inductors IMO real missing information and impact. BTW the North Creek tweeter Inductor gives a smoothness so much most people tell me they wouldn't even know they were listening to a horn speaker unless they were told.

DaveC did his RF25's for a $600 investment plus the cost of his speakers $600. $1200 total. IMO it would cost 3-$4000 to get what I like from his modified RF25's in a commercial product. they are a joy to listen to and you can listen all day and never tire of them.

So since you have a sub even if you wanted more low end you part with the quartets and pick up the RF25's for their magical mid range. BTW even with the stock crossovers they are one the more musical Klipsch speakers I have heard with factory networks but of course with mods they are a sheer delight and I can tell you more then one person has been wowed by them and they are running on 10 watts of 300B tube power :scratch2:

A lot of fun.

SET12

 

[wgrr]

Not really sure which side you're landing on here, as the Escalade has a certain snob appeal by itself, but there are significant performance differences between a Cadillac and a Land Rover. At least, the Range Rover. Which might have something to do with this conversation, and might not. The thing with the Range Rover, it can back up everything it says. I've taken the Land Rover off-road qualification training, in a Range Rover (wasn't mine, I did their ads), and it's almost hard to believe what that vehicle is actually capable of, at least in its 2004 guise. The Cadillac, on the other hand, is a sheep in wolf's clothing. Try to cross a river in it with water up to the windshield, or descend a 45 degree rocky slope, or whatever, and you will likely either break an axle at best or drawn at worst. Which is to say that sometimes, in both automobiles and audio, there are reasons that one person carries themselves like their **** is a bit better. Because, well..it is. The Range Rover is an awesome piece of machinery that BMW (used to own LR) spent nearly a billion dollars getting right. The Escalade is....a facade. It will leave you stranded. But I'm sure there is somebody somewhere who is an unabashed "Detroit metal!!!" fan who will swear otherwise, but it doesn't change reality. Some stuff is better than other stuff. And its not because its more expensive, its because it does what its supposed to do, in a superior manner. The Range Rover is an $80,000 vehicle. And it will, in no uncertain terms, pretty muck kick the ass of any other vehicle when asked to leave the highway. I've seen Land Rover Discovery's pulling jacked up Jeeps and raised Ford pick-ups with giant off-road tires out of mud, and the Discovery wasn't nearly the vehicle the Range Rover. Sorry for the somewhat metaphorical tangent but it seems a perfectly apt parallel to the idea that some stuff that costs money, really is THAT much better.

I had a 2006 Range Rover. It was very nice but I wasn't impressed with the ergonomics. I preferred my G280 CDI which is the civilian version of the military 461 Nothing fancy about it but, it was as tough as nails and easy to drive. Back in those days I bought and sold a lot of Mercedes vehicles I regret not keeping the G Wagon and a fully restored 72 280SE 4.5 coupe.

I have owned new Forte II's and liked them until I home auditioned the Chorus II. The Forte's went back to the dealer. I give a lot of credit to the amplifier which, in this case was an MC150 and a C712 pre. Now I have the Cornwall's and they love the MC275 and the C2200. Matching the right amp to speakers is important. It doesn't have to cost a lot of money. A set of Cornwall I's, and some used Bottlehead gear and you can be blown away for less than $1500. Trust me I know. I hooked up my $300 Bottlehead SEX amp (2.5 wpc SET) and used my TT, with a MC cartridge as a source, and my $600 Cornwall's; pure heaven. It sounded pretty good with an old IPod Nano too. To use a cliche, "I heard things in the music I have never heard before".

 

[tem2169]

Here is what I think is your Quartet I don't know what the reference to Heresy X is though. Also I can't make out the cap value but I'm guessing 50uf and the Inductor for the tweeter looks like the fairly standard .16mH that the Forte uses.

As Moray say's here "Bob rebuilds the original network and in most cases he only installs new same value capacitors sometimes he will also install upgraded auto transformers. So in a nutshell Bob's networks are Klipsch networks. Al Klappenburger does modify the circuits. Best regards Moray James."

I haven't seen anything from Al on any work for the Quartet.

To get some of what I have from my modified Forte's from Quartets you would have to at least go North Creek 12AWG on Inductors and that would set you back $334 you can use everything in Bob's networks just substitute the Inductors and you should notice a whole different animal. The North Creeks will be big but you can mount them on the cabinet side walls or possibly the on the bottom of the cabinet. I would use nylon tie mounts with brass screws then nylon tie them down. So your basically just putting additional wire onto the inductors with crimp ends the same size that Bob uses and you disconnect Bobs inductors and connect the North Creeks.

If your thinking about possibly someone else's inductors you'd better think again read this http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/14/147282.html

Why did the other inductors sound different read this North Creek FAQ's and what the difference is between AWG's http://www.northcreekmusic.com/COILS.html

And if you went 10AWG it would cost $560 for the four inductors.

The $334 in not to much to ask IMO. These inductors get a grip on the bass that has to be heard to be appreciated. But of course your associated gear has to be capable as well. If the associated gear is not up to par with the speaker then one thinks the mods shed little improvement. One just can't depend on the speaker alone. Its a system as a whole. Really its the weakest link that is actually expressed in the system.

I always like to say if you love them go for it.

Other alternatives, if I had to choose between your Quartet and your RF35's I see you own I think I'd try the RF35's they maybe less costly. Even though I have some reservations about an 8in woofer in a two way as if the past I found they just didn't have the speed to be used. The mid's always sounded lethargic lacking in impact. But then again I have not heard a two-way using North Creek Inductors either with an 8in two-way speaker

I have heard DaveC's RF25's with 6.5in woofers and they are spectacularly musical with very plentiful bass. Although looking at the RF25 spec's one would believe they might not go deep enough. Though listening to DaveC's RF25's you really don't notice any real low end grunt missing. The thing about the North Creeks is they give you body and coherency with control throughout their working range this is why they may work very well with an 8in woofer giving the 8in a chance while common Iron Core's are simply vague with not much control in my experience. Think about the upper range beyond a sub like 120hz to 700hz or so not good with iron core inductors IMO real missing information and impact. BTW the North Creek tweeter Inductor gives a smoothness so much most people tell me they wouldn't even know they were listening to a horn speaker unless they were told.

DaveC did his RF25's for a $600 investment plus the cost of his speakers $600. $1200 total. IMO it would cost 3-$4000 to get what I like from his modified RF25's in a commercial product. they are a joy to listen to and you can listen all day and never tire of them.

So since you have a sub even if you wanted more low end you part with the quartets and pick up the RF25's for their magical mid range. BTW even with the stock crossovers they are one the more musical Klipsch speakers I have heard with factory networks but of course with mods they are a sheer delight and I can tell you more then one person has been wowed by them and they are running on 10 watts of 300B tube power :scratch2:

A lot of fun.

SET12

So the values for the inductors I would need are .16 and 4?

 

[SET12]

So the values for the inductors I would need are .16 and 4?

That's correct providing the schematic is correct. You could also verify with the Crites network providing the parts are labeled.

A North Creek .16mH has to be specially wound and would cost about $1.50 more or the same price as the next Inductor up.

Cost of North Creek inductors http://www.northcreekmusic.com/NorthCreekCoilPrices.PDF

The thing about the RF series at least for the RF25 is the low parts values which lower costs substantially. Klipsch Heritage in general has low parts values.

One thing that can further sweeten the tweeters is using a 39 ohm Duelund resistor in place as well. They are about $26 each. Worth every penny in my system. I was using Ohmite's that North Creek had found to be the best in a listening survey of 20 resistors that they did. One listen and I nearly threw the Ohmites in the garbage. The Ohmites had a low positive temperature coefficient but not a negative one. A resistor is used in the network to stop the tweeters peakiness or rising impedance with frequency. I once heard a demonstration of this at a speaker seminar and it was very noticeable with and without but the Duelund is substantially better then any resistor that has a positive temperature coefficient and nearly all do.

Duelund Statement below.

"The special characteristic about this resistor is that it displays a negative temperature coefficient. For example, when the voice coil of a speaker heats up, it's impedance rises. The DUELUND Graphite Resistor counteracts this by means of a decreasing impedance. The results are greatly improved dynamics from the driver."

Where to get them http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_duelund.html

Simply put I'll never use anything but for anything I take seriously to listen with.

SET12

 

[lawnerd]

Not really sure which side you're landing on here, as the Escalade has a certain snob appeal by itself, but there are significant performance differences between a Cadillac and a Land Rover. At least, the Range Rover. Which might have something to do with this conversation, and might not. The thing with the Range Rover, it can back up everything it says. I've taken the Land Rover off-road qualification training, in a Range Rover (wasn't mine, I did their ads), and it's almost hard to believe what that vehicle is actually capable of, at least in its 2004 guise. The Cadillac, on the other hand, is a sheep in wolf's clothing. Try to cross a river in it with water up to the windshield, or descend a 45 degree rocky slope, or whatever, and you will likely either break an axle at best or drawn at worst. Which is to say that sometimes, in both automobiles and audio, there are reasons that one person carries themselves like their **** is a bit better. Because, well..it is. The Range Rover is an awesome piece of machinery that BMW (used to own LR) spent nearly a billion dollars getting right. The Escalade is....a facade. It will leave you stranded. But I'm sure there is somebody somewhere who is an unabashed "Detroit metal!!!" fan who will swear otherwise, but it doesn't change reality. Some stuff is better than other stuff. And its not because its more expensive, its because it does what its supposed to do, in a superior manner. The Range Rover is an $80,000 vehicle. And it will, in no uncertain terms, pretty muck kick the ass of any other vehicle when asked to leave the highway. I've seen Land Rover Discovery's pulling jacked up Jeeps and raised Ford pick-ups with giant off-road tires out of mud, and the Discovery wasn't nearly the vehicle the Range Rover. Sorry for the somewhat metaphorical tangent but it seems a perfectly apt parallel to the idea that some stuff that costs money, really is THAT much better.

+1 on the Range Rover. My supercharged Range Rover will kick a$$ over any Escalade. My favorite car reviewer once wrote that he would prefer a Range Rover over a Bentley because it was equal on the Luxury and build quality but was able to go anywhere.

 

[lawnerd]

I had a 2006 Range Rover. It was very nice but I wasn't impressed with the ergonomics. I preferred my G280 CDI which is the civilian version of the military 461 Nothing fancy about it but, it was as tough as nails and easy to drive. Back in those days I bought and sold a lot of Mercedes vehicles I regret not keeping the G Wagon and a fully restored 72 280SE 4.5 coupe.

I have owned new Forte II's and liked them until I home auditioned the Chorus II. The Forte's went back to the dealer. I give a lot of credit to the amplifier which, in this case was an MC150 and a C712 pre. Now I have the Cornwall's and they love the MC275 and the C2200. Matching the right amp to speakers is important. It doesn't have to cost a lot of money. A set of Cornwall I's, and some used Bottlehead gear and you can be blown away for less than $1500. Trust me I know. I hooked up my $300 Bottlehead SEX amp (2.5 wpc SET) and used my TT, with a MC cartridge as a source, and my $600 Cornwall's; pure heaven. It sounded pretty good with an old IPod Nano too. To use a cliche, "I heard things in the music I have never heard before".

Gotta disagree about the Range Rover. I have a 2006 Range Rover Supercharged. When I bought it I was comparing it to the G wagon. Even though I love Mercedes, the Range Rover just kicks ass. It is well made and very comfortable. I can't say the same for the mercedes.

 

[sony6060]

I take the beating now..........

:bash:

I had a 2006 Range Rover. It was very nice but I wasn't impressed with the ergonomics. I preferred my G280 CDI which is the civilian version of the military 461 Nothing fancy about it but, it was as tough as nails and easy to drive. Back in those days I bought and sold a lot of Mercedes vehicles I regret not keeping the G Wagon and a fully restored 72 280SE 4.5 coupe.

I have owned new Forte II's and liked them until I home auditioned the Chorus II. The Forte's went back to the dealer. I give a lot of credit to the amplifier which, in this case was an MC150 and a C712 pre. Now I have the Cornwall's and they love the MC275 and the C2200. Matching the right amp to speakers is important. It doesn't have to cost a lot of money. A set of Cornwall I's, and some used Bottlehead gear and you can be blown away for less than $1500. Trust me I know. I hooked up my $300 Bottlehead SEX amp (2.5 wpc SET) and used my TT, with a MC cartridge as a source, and my $600 Cornwall's; pure heaven. It sounded pretty good with an old IPod Nano too. To use a cliche, "I heard things in the music I have never heard before".

I owned 1974 Cornwalls, preferred the Forte 1 with classical music the only exception. Ok, pass the whip around, I call the doctor in the morning. :bash:

 

[moray james]

it might help

:bash:

I owned 1974 Cornwalls, preferred the Forte 1 with classical music the only exception. Ok, pass the whip around, I call the doctor in the morning. :bash:

if you were to add some comment on what it was that you preferred about the Forte Vs the Cornwall. I expect that is what readers are after the what and why parts. I can imagine that you probably liked the more extended bass response of the Forte over the CW but then the Cornwall can pound hard and can push a lot more air than the 12" in the Forte. That sort of thing. Best regards Moray James.

 

[SET12]

Lot of :bash: around here

Yes , I would say the Cornwall could push more air then a Forte. I even think I'd prefer a stock Cornwall over a stock Forte. But I'd prefer my modified Fortes over a Cornwall and I like a stock Cornwall very much even more then a Khorn. I even had a friend that owned Khorn's here and he prefers my modified Fortes over the Khorns he once owned. That statement turned my heard. I think that a Cornwall done like my Forte's could be done and yield what my modified Forte's do, maybe even better :yes:

 

[sony6060]

if you were to add some comment on what it was that you preferred about the Forte Vs the Cornwall. I expect that is what readers are after the what and why parts. I can imagine that you probably liked the more extended bass response of the Forte over the CW but then the Cornwall can pound hard and can push a lot more air than the 12" in the Forte. That sort of thing. Best regards Moray James.

The Forte produces more bass with nice tone. Do understand my Forte are modified & the Cornwalls were stock. I have a 10 x 14 listening room and the Cornwalls should play in a larger room IMO.

 

[nrap]

Which is the better mid horn?
The tractrix of the forte and chorus ii or the expo on the conrwalls?

 

[l-myers]

Lot of :bash: around here

Yes , I would say the Cornwall could push more air then a Forte. I even think I'd prefer a stock Cornwall over a stock Forte. But I'd prefer my modified Fortes over a Cornwall and I like a stock Cornwall very much even more then a Khorn. I even had a friend that owned Khorn's here and he prefers my modified Fortes over the Khorns he once owned. That statement turned my heard. I think that a Cornwall done like my Forte's could be done and yield what my modified Forte's do, maybe even better :yes:

I find this almost shocking; I don't doubt that your modified Fortes are leaps and bounds above stock, but the little I have heard of the Klipschorn has left an indelible mark on my acoustic memory; I have never heard music that sounds as real and "there" - especially from orchestral material - in any other speaker in any system as from the 60th Anniversary Khorns I auditioned a few years ago.

 

[moray james]

my money goes on

Which is the better mid horn?
The tractrix of the forte and chorus ii or the expo on the conrwalls?

the much newer Hybrid mid horn of the Quartet, Forte ll, Chorus ll and others. Regardless of the CW having a K700 or a 600. They all sound better to me with the titanium diaphragms. The newer horn is a very well built horn with lits of resin in the shot as the horn walls are thick and rigid as compared to later horns which are very thin in the walls.
It has been to long since I last listened to a K600 in a CW so I cannot remember well enough to give a detailed description of the sound and hoe it compares. I have however spent some considerable time working with the K701 (resin version) in my H3 and I can say that with modification work they can be make to sound very good. I expect that the same can be said for the K600. The newer hybrid tractrix horn most likely measures lower as far as distortion goer so I expect it would come out the winner either way. As good as the K701 can be made to sound I would not buy a new speaker if it had a K701 in it. The best sounding Klipsch horn that I have is the one in the CF3 and it is also the largest horn of the lot. Again this horn has thin walls which need reinforcement but that can be done and it's worth the effort. Best regards Moray James.

 

[SET12]

I find this almost shocking; I don't doubt that your modified Fortes are leaps and bounds above stock, but the little I have heard of the Klipschorn has left an indelible mark on my acoustic memory; I have never heard music that sounds as real and "there" - especially from orchestral material - in any other speaker in any system as from the 60th Anniversary Khorns I auditioned a few years ago.

Pretty amazing isn't it?

That's because while the components in network maybe considered good quality. They are not the same subjective high quality. And one pays for this to. Most of the Khorn's network components are the typically same subjective quality found in all of the Heritage Series.

I see you have a large interest in networks. Often I find people just haven't gone far enough. This is also related to associated electronics. If the electronics are not up to par or the same standard as the speaker then what happens is the speakers reflect the electronics limitations. When this happens often people will point to speaker modification's and say there isn't much of a difference in this or that when in reality its the speakers associated electronics that is limiting what can be heard. This phenomena has dropped my jaw a few times.

A for instance, I had a well respected expensive CDP that an acquaintance had brought over for a listen which barely was able to create a sound-stage any wider then the speakers width while my own CDP created a stage 3 times the width. And of course other things go with the width like space and air between things and many other things going on.

Now if I was using the acquaintance's CDP to do speaker tests to evaluate stage size alone between two speakers then one might say that there wasn't much difference.

The point here is that all associated gear needs to be on par if it isn't then doing extreme mods as I have done is not worth a whole lot. This is where the Crites products give the consumer the most bang for ones buck and there is nothing wrong with that. Its just that I need a lot more.

Speaking of that friend, he has some of the best ears that I know of and is an accomplished musician that plays what might be a $30,000 cello owns a $50,000 sound system and hears live music 3-4 nights a week.

Occasionally I have to take the grill cover off my Forte and marvel how such little horns can create such large recorded acoustic image which can extend 10ft to either the left or right of each speaker and very very deep. A stock Forte can not even do this close and I strongly suspect not even the Crites. It's my thought the the inductors are most of the limiting factor. I can hear all of the components of my network's as I built them externally so I can change parts easily to audition them.

As JohnVF has said sometimes the money does indeed make a difference. In this case one of my 3.0mH inductors is now $300 alone which is as much as a pair Crites network replacements. You won't find this kind of investment in a single component in a Khorn nor in most speakers.

SET12

 

[thamnosma]

I'm glad to be listening to these stock before changing the sound. Giving them a good run with a variety of music genres. I certainly hear some weaknesses, but there is "something" to these speakers. (first Klipsch I've owned). These are, for lack of a better word, engaging. They've got "guts". Smoother than I expected given comments about Klipsch harshness. Doing a nice job tonight with a "Best of 10 years after" and Funkadelic "Maggot Brain".

A worthy design that can, from reading the work of several here, aspire to even more and attain it. I have zero idea in what order to try changes, but starting with the ALK networks and live with those for awhile. Perhaps getting them onto stands might be next to tighten bass and lift the mid-horn level. Don't know, but I imagine the road can be fun. At some point, if I end up driven, SET12's networks sure seem intriguing.

In the meantime, I'm just enjoying them.