Let's mod a PL-41 !

[RickB]

I want to stain and refinish my pl-41. Everything is clean, but the finish is old and dull and the stain has faded a bit. The base is walnut, correct? Any recommendations for a stain/finish that won't have any negative impact on the sound or the vinyl itself? When I was going to school, I did staining/finishing for extra cash, but it was always home interior - not electronics...

I'd take the mechanics out of the plinth, clean the plinth with turpentine, and then re-oil it with 50/50 turpentine and boiled linseed oil....rub the oil in, let it penetrate for a bit, and the rub the surface until pretty dry...let cure overnight and repeat this the next day...you want the oil to polymerize in the wood, not on the surface...this will add to the chatoyance of the wood without putting a glossy film over the wood....

I'm a huge fan of real oil finishes, I did the plinth for my AR-XA in BLO after sanding it to 1200 grit and then waxed it with Minwax Special Dark wax.....this gives it a glossy finish, but it's different from a varnish finish, it is as if the wood itself is polished out and doesn't have some kind of plasticy sludge on the surface....

I'm also a fan of dyes over stains...stains seem to obscure the grain and details in the wood while dyes do not...I've even made clear, fine grained pine look just like cherry by using dyes then followed by wood conditioner followed by stain to help even the coloration...then I hand rubbed BLO into the wood, let it cure, and then applied a water born polyurethane on top...I used the poly vs. lacquer as this wood was being used in a stand and I felt like the poly would be more durable in a very, very thin film...

So, with the Pioneer, I'd give it a good cleaning and if the veneer is in good shape I would give it a VERY light block sanding with no coarser than 320 grit free-cut style paper, clean it again with turps, let it dry, and then oil it with the 50/50 mixture of turps and BLO a couple or three times, I really wouldn't worry about staining it as on mine it seems as if the wood is just natural color with an oiled finish...the original oil finishes on a lot of stereo gear from the 60's and 70's was not glossy, had no surface film, and was very flat, not glossy...

Good luck and have fun!

 

[MWalt]

That is nice work, Rick! :thmbsp:

 

[RickB]

Thanks!

 

[PickyEars81]

Yes, very nice and good advice. Thanks for all of your help.

 

[MrIgotNomoney]

I want to stain and refinish my pl-41. Everything is clean, but the finish is old and dull and the stain has faded a bit. The base is walnut, correct? Any recommendations for a stain/finish that won't have any negative impact on the sound or the vinyl itself? When I was going to school, I did staining/finishing for extra cash, but it was always home interior - not electronics...

If the veneer is in good shape....
Id use Formby's furniture refinisher, with a really fine 0000 steel wool, just to remove the original finish. then a few coats of Watco Danish oil.
This should give you a very smooth satin finish, not changing the color of the wood.
I use both products and have gotten great results.
bob

 

[RickB]

Well, I was going to put mine back into service today...I recently got the Delrin thrust plate we were all anxiously waiting for, thanks again, Finn...so I took the bearing apart to install it...well, I looked at the end of the shaft and it looked like Hell!

It had been run on the steel thrust plates/shims that were in there before and the tip of the shaft was all scratched, looking at it through a 10X magnifier showed just how bad this was....no wonder this table had sounded good to me the last time I used it but just didn't seem to have as black a background as my Linn or Micro Seki....

So, I spent the afternoon polishing the shaft...I wrapped some protective tape around the shaft where the record sits, chucked it into a drill, and started to polish it...

I first worked it lightly with 320 wet or dry to take out the really bad concentric scratches in the tip of the shaft...then I went to 400...then on to 600...800...1000...1200...2000, and then, the good stuff, MicroMesh!

I worked the shaft and tip from 3200, to 3600, to 4000, to 6000, to 8000 and then all the way up to 12,000 grit, yes, that's twelve thousand grit!

Those specks you see on the surface are actually dust, not imperfections in the shoulder...I used stacked close-up lenses on my old Olympus UZ2100 to get this macro shot of the tip....it does show up more striation than you can see with a 10X loupe, but I am totally happy with the way it looks....the vertical part of the shaft was also polished to this level.

This gave a really, really nice polish and should help lower the noise floor considerably, as riding on the steel thrust plates with that scored of a bearing surface could not help but induce noise! The Delrin plate will also help reduce frictional noise...I cleaned out the bearing, wrapped the threads with Teflon tape, filled it with Castrol Syntec 80W/90 synthetic hypoid lube, and put it back together, very carefully tightening the bottom cap to apply just enough pressure to take out 99% of the vertical play, but still leave enough to be loose enough to not bind at all...

I guess it works pretty well, I just turned the platter where it took 1 second to complete a revolution, so I guess approximately 60 RPM, and it took 3 minutes for the platter to stop turning...that's pretty good considering that the Syntec is a fairly viscous lubricant....

I also replaced the heat shrink I had on the arm with a new piece of clear that just barely fit over the nut, and in fact had to trim it after shrinking it down...this left a slightly ragged edge so I cut a piece of colored heatshrink to cover this end and trim it out a bit...

But, even though I thought I was being careful and covered the stuff below the arm with some aluminum foil to help protect it from heat damage from my heat gun, alas, I still f-ed it up!...

Oh well, it's just a little cosmetic detail, I trimmed off all the stuff that was splooged all over the place in an attempt to clean it up a little...oh well...I'll find another clip one of these days...or make something...but for now, it's gotta stay....

Since I took all the time getting the shaft polished I'm not going to be able to put it in the system before SWMBO gets home from work, so that will have to wait for another day...

It was still fun, though, getting this old beast ready!

.

 

[MWalt]

Well, I was going to put mine back into service today...I recently got the Delrin thrust plate we were all anxiously waiting for, thanks again, Finn...so I took the bearing apart to install it...well, I looked at the end of the shaft and it looked like Hell!

It had been run on the steel thrust plates/shims that were in there before and the tip of the shaft was all scratched, looking at it through a 10X magnifier showed just how bad this was....no wonder this table had sounded good to me the last time I used it but just didn't seem to have as black a background as my Linn or Micro Seki....

So, I spent the afternoon polishing the shaft...I wrapped some protective tape around the shaft where the record sits, chucked it into a drill, and started to polish it...

I first worked it lightly with 320 wet or dry to take out the really bad concentric scratches in the tip of the shaft...then I went to 400...then on to 600...800...1000...1200...2000, and then, the good stuff, MicroMesh!

I worked the shaft and tip from 3200, to 3600, to 4000, to 6000, to 8000 and then all the way up to 12,000 grit, yes, that's twelve thousand grit!

Those specks you see on the surface are actually dust, not imperfections in the shoulder...I used stacked close-up lenses on my old Olympus UZ2100 to get this macro shot of the tip....it does show up more striation than you can see with a 10X loupe, but I am totally happy with the way it looks....the vertical part of the shaft was also polished to this level.

This gave a really, really nice polish and should help lower the noise floor considerably, as riding on the steel thrust plates with that scored of a bearing surface could not help but induce noise! The Delrin plate will also help reduce frictional noise...I cleaned out the bearing, wrapped the threads with Teflon tape, filled it with Castrol Syntec 80W/90 synthetic hypoid lube, and put it back together, very carefully tightening the bottom cap to apply just enough pressure to take out 99% of the vertical play, but still leave enough to be loose enough to not bind at all...

I guess it works pretty well, I just turned the platter where it took 1 second to complete a revolution, so I guess approximately 60 RPM, and it took 3 minutes for the platter to stop turning...that's pretty good considering that the Syntec is a fairly viscous lubricant....

I also replaced the heat shrink I had on the arm with a new piece of clear that just barely fit over the nut, and in fact had to trim it after shrinking it down...this left a slightly ragged edge so I cut a piece of colored heatshrink to cover this end and trim it out a bit...

But, even though I thought I was being careful and covered the stuff below the arm with some aluminum foil to help protect it from heat damage from my heat gun, alas, I still f-ed it up!...

Oh well, it's just a little cosmetic detail, I trimmed off all the stuff that was splooged all over the place in an attempt to clean it up a litlle...oh well...I'll find another clip one of these days...or make something...but for now, it's gotta stay....

Since I took al lthe time getting the shaft polished I'm not going to be able to put it in the system before SWMBO gets home from work, so that will have to wait for another day...

It was still fun, though, getting this old beast ready!

.

Nice job on that spindle/bearing. Did you do anything to the inner bearing? I may try to find another bearing set up to have an extra for mine. I have no idea of the history of mine so I really have no clue as to what the condition is. Oh, by the way, I may have an extra tonearm mount for you if my arm upgrade experiment pans out.

 

[RickB]

I didn't do anything to the bronze bearing but clean it...I figured that the amount I took off the center shaft would give a tiny bit more clearance, plus the high pressure additives in the hypoid lubricant would pretty much fill any small imperfections in the bronze and perhaps help with keeping things lubed...

 

[MWalt]

I didn't do anything to the bronze bearing but clean it...I figured that the amount I took off the center shaft would give a tiny bit more clearance, plus the high pressure additives in the hypoid lubricant would pretty much fill any small imperfections in the bronze and perhaps help with keeping things lubed...

Pretty much my mindset as well. I did the exact same to mine.

 

[thedelihaus]

 

[Holst]

I have to say, great thread guys. I just discovered it, I'd say thanks for pushing the price of the PL-41 I bought last year for 75 to 699 but I never sell anything.

Here's my custom plinth, a stereo cabinet my Dad built for my cousin back in the 60's. I refinished it last year.

 

[Isotonic]

I have to say, great thread guys. I just discovered it, I'd say thanks for pushing the price of the PL-41 I bought last year for 75 to 699 but I never sell anything.

Here's my custom plinth, a stereo cabinet my Dad built for my cousin back in the 60's. I refinished it last year.

That looks interesting More Pics?

 

[MWalt]

Deli, those are awesome! I am mounting the arm now. I would have been done by now, but I had to take a trip to PA to buy some nice Infinity Kappa 7's. (show pics later) I drilled the holes for the base, but ran out of screw threads, so I am going to Lowe's and get some spacers. Should I use the Ortofon or the DL-160 as a cart?

 

[thedelihaus]

A little birdy has told me you mounted the Denon DL-160, Mark.

Looking forward to hearing your impressions!

 

[MWalt]

Update!

I just finished another step in my PL-41 project. It took some work, but I finally got the Sumiko Premier FT-3 arm on and working. There were a few things that I learned along the way, so I thought I would share them with you. I must have measured a few hundred times to get the correct distance from spindle to center of the arm shaft. I finally got the nerve to drill, and drill I did. I mounted the tonearm base and determined that I needed nylon spacers because the provided screws were too long. After a trip to Lowes, I remounted the base and then determined that the stock arm hole needed to be widened. So I got out the trusty old dremel tool and used a sanding bit and opened it up a little. Success! I then mounted the arm and subsequently my new Audioquest cable and Denon DL-160 cart. At the lowest height the arm is just about right for VTA with this cart. I‘m not sure how a different sized cart would fare, but the 160 is pushing it. I got my alignment right and then went to set VTF only to find out that the cart was too light to balance. Back to the drawing board, so I added a three gram spacer weight and repeated the process. Second time is a charm as everything balanced out well. I adjusted TF to 1.6 and put on a record. So, how does it sound? It sounds so good that I am surprised by it. Here are some pics:

Here's a pic of the widened arm hole.

The mounted base

The under side of the base

Installing the tonearm cable

The end state

I am still not done by a longshot. I have to build the new 3/4 inch baltic birch base and install the leveling/isolation spikes. I am alsoo going to buy another cart for it. Probably not for a while, but something significantly better, because I think this setup deserves it. The good news is that yesterday I picked up a nearly mint pair of Infinity Kappa 7's and I think they contributed to the beauty of the sound. I will update as I do further refinement.

 

[Isotonic]

Excellent!

 

[thedelihaus]

 

[thedelihaus]

PS-

If you don't want to go with a big spirit bubble level, they sell mini versions too.

 

[MWalt]

The bubble level I used in the pics is just one that I use to level TT in general that don't have a built in. Where did you see that one? Also, how do you add silicone fluid to the cueing on the Sumiko? I looked, but couldn't see a way to add it. The cueing drops like a rock. I also need a finger lift.

A couple of notes from this mod:

I think any tonearm that comes close to the original in terms of length and distance to spindle will work providing it has a low profile. Rob found that one out the hard way with his Micro Seiki. Even the Sumiko was borderline with the Denon I am using. Also, the metal base is easier to cut and drill into than I thought. That is something to consider for others that are willing to try this. Lastly, the Denon 160 is a hell of a bang for the buck cart. I can only imagine how a $700 cart would sound on this.

 

[thedelihaus]

The bubble level I used in the pics is just one that I use to level TT in general that don't have a built in. Where did you see that one?....

You can get them all over eBay for a few bucks. Often sold as "end of Tonearm" spirit level.

...I also need a finger lift....

NeedleDoctor sells the replacement Sumiko finger lifts, $9. I don't like them- they (and almost any finger lift) have been tested to pick up vibration, and transfer it to the tone arm.

I'd say more than half of the photos on the internet run the Sumiko FT-3 and FT-4 without them, and I feel this is best.

...Also, how do you add silicone fluid to the cueing on the Sumiko? I looked, but couldn't see a way to add it. The cueing drops like a rock....

I filled up two of these pots recently- notorious (like the Sonys) for going dry.

Unscrew the top lift- and take it off. Drop the piston from the carrier frame. Use a syringe and inject the tiny guide hole with silicone damping fluid. Re-assemble.

Do you need some more fluid? I just got a new thing of it. Or you could use the stuff I sent you in the glass jar. Let me know.

I tested the arm lift, but sans cartridge. Sorry about that. The added cartridge weight must be weighing it down enough to speed up the action dramatically.