Let's mod a PL-41 !
- Thread starter Naptown Rob
- Start date
http://www.woodsthebest.com/ipe_decking/ipe-wood.htm
Hey, you could put one of those bubble levels over one of those holes.
I use a Grado Sonata on my Sumiko FT-# and it is a very good match. The Sonata is a very sweet and extended cartridge. Perhaps colored compared to the average MC cartridge, but beautifully so. It is also deep with excellent resolution. Very organic.
Hey, you could put one of those bubble levels over one of those holes.
I use a Grado Sonata on my Sumiko FT-# and it is a very good match. The Sonata is a very sweet and extended cartridge. Perhaps colored compared to the average MC cartridge, but beautifully so. It is also deep with excellent resolution. Very organic.
MWalt
Super Member
Another good idea! I was also thinking about a strip of the carbon fiber you use so much in some of your work. Maybe that with a bubble level attached to it.
I like it! See above.
That is one nice cart and it may well end up on this arm down the road. For now, I have to go with what I have lying around. What do you think would sound best on this arm, Denon Dl-110, Shure M91ED with JICO SAS stylus, or a practically brand new Ortofon 2M Blue? I had the denon 110 on my Sony PS-X6 and it seems to be a great combo, so I will probably keep it on that. Deli is working his magic on the PS-X6 as we speak, so it is just laying around.
So far on my list for future carts I have in order of cost: Grado Sonata 1, Dynavector10x5, and Denon DL 160. I am always open to ideas...
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I think of the FT-3 as pretty low mass, and I love the sound of the M91. I vote for the Shure. As much as I love the DL-110 I would save that for one of your mid to high mass arms. On the other hand, try them both and let us know your impressions.
MrIgotNomoney
Well-Known Member
Mark
That is sweet !!!!!
bob
That is sweet !!!!!
bob
Jonesy09
Super Member
Wow! You 41'ers have been busy. I stop paying attention for one minute and you're swapping arms and polishing platters and such. Great read and some beautiful work done here guys.
Question. The mis-matched DIN issue was metnioned a while back. I ran into that problem as referenced here. And here.
Has anyone figured a way to secure the smaller sized Cardas DIN in the bottom of the tonearm tube?
Question. The mis-matched DIN issue was metnioned a while back. I ran into that problem as referenced here. And here.
Has anyone figured a way to secure the smaller sized Cardas DIN in the bottom of the tonearm tube?
thedelihaus
Nocturnal transmissions
Mark,
I think the bubble level is a great idea for the larger top hole, and as per our discussion, adding a few smaller badges in japanese writing- one for the top that says Sumiko, and one in front wood panel that says Pioneer.
It will vault the looks right over the top into boutique territory.
As for carts, the arm, if I recollect, is 20-21g effective mass, putting it right into the medium mass category. If it were mine, I'd start to consider that 103, or even better, a 103R.
The 160 is running $180 right now, and the 103 as cheap as $119- if you needed to run an additional rear weight, the Jelco 250/370/750 heavy weight fits, and a metal 3gr shim would run you under $4, while a high-end brass shim $15-$20.
I have a feeling this combo would beat your beloved 5.1.
Now, the 5.1's arm is excellent, and I like it better than a Rega RB300 (though other factors may have influenced my decision), but the Sumiko MMT Premier is, I feel, better than the Stock RB300 too (before anyone freaks out, a modded RB300 or RB700 is a different story).
You have the nicer FT-3, and with a re-wire, comparable to the rare FT-4, if not nicer than that.
I'm thinking both tables are begging for the next step up in carts.
Though I'd love to hear what you think of the Denon DL-110 and the Ortofon Blue on this arm.
I think the bubble level is a great idea for the larger top hole, and as per our discussion, adding a few smaller badges in japanese writing- one for the top that says Sumiko, and one in front wood panel that says Pioneer.
It will vault the looks right over the top into boutique territory.
As for carts, the arm, if I recollect, is 20-21g effective mass, putting it right into the medium mass category. If it were mine, I'd start to consider that 103, or even better, a 103R.
The 160 is running $180 right now, and the 103 as cheap as $119- if you needed to run an additional rear weight, the Jelco 250/370/750 heavy weight fits, and a metal 3gr shim would run you under $4, while a high-end brass shim $15-$20.
I have a feeling this combo would beat your beloved 5.1.
Now, the 5.1's arm is excellent, and I like it better than a Rega RB300 (though other factors may have influenced my decision), but the Sumiko MMT Premier is, I feel, better than the Stock RB300 too (before anyone freaks out, a modded RB300 or RB700 is a different story).
You have the nicer FT-3, and with a re-wire, comparable to the rare FT-4, if not nicer than that.
I'm thinking both tables are begging for the next step up in carts.
Though I'd love to hear what you think of the Denon DL-110 and the Ortofon Blue on this arm.
thedelihaus
Nocturnal transmissions
Here's a blurb from High-End Audio.com...
"...Sumiko MMT- I sold a large number of these tonearms during my "phono heyday" in the 1980's. They were the finest value at the time, the "RB-300" of its day. They still hold up today, since their VTA is adjustable, and the build quality is decent. A Reference if in good condition. Perfect for "first timers" who want adjustability and good value. At its "best", it is still not as good as the Rega RB-300 at ITS "best", but it's more difficult to hear the Rega at its best.
Sumiko FT-3- This was the enhanced and more expensive version of the MMT, and not a replacement. It had slightly better performance and build quality. It was not quite as good a value as the MMT, though still very respectable in that regard..."
On the Origin Live RB250- which I personally think would be a very nice alternative-
"...Origin Live Rega RB-250- We have heard a relentless flow of good things, from numerous people, about this tonearm within the last two years. Enough to feel that there must be something to it, but none of us has any experience with the Origin, so we can't comment on it, let alone consider it a Reference.
I would seriously consider the Origin if you are "on a budget" and looking for the finest new tonearm you can buy for the money. I would."
Now, the above site isn't as fond over a stock Rega RB250-300, but the basic design is excellent in my book.
I'd choose a stock Sumiko over a stock RB250/300, and I think a modified Sumiko will perform almost as good as a modified RB250/300 for a fraction of the cost. A rewired MMT or FT-3/FT-4 would run you $450-$600 average, while the RB-250/300 with the Pete Riggles/Origin Live mods gets up to $750-$800.
But, at $750-$800, the RB250/300 with mods should have the lead over the sumiko.
Just hashing over this for reference to anyone wanting to mod a PL-41.
Both a stock or modified Sumiko (or Jelco) or modified RB-250/300 or stock RB-700 are all great choices.
"...Sumiko MMT- I sold a large number of these tonearms during my "phono heyday" in the 1980's. They were the finest value at the time, the "RB-300" of its day. They still hold up today, since their VTA is adjustable, and the build quality is decent. A Reference if in good condition. Perfect for "first timers" who want adjustability and good value. At its "best", it is still not as good as the Rega RB-300 at ITS "best", but it's more difficult to hear the Rega at its best.
Sumiko FT-3- This was the enhanced and more expensive version of the MMT, and not a replacement. It had slightly better performance and build quality. It was not quite as good a value as the MMT, though still very respectable in that regard..."
On the Origin Live RB250- which I personally think would be a very nice alternative-
"...Origin Live Rega RB-250- We have heard a relentless flow of good things, from numerous people, about this tonearm within the last two years. Enough to feel that there must be something to it, but none of us has any experience with the Origin, so we can't comment on it, let alone consider it a Reference.
I would seriously consider the Origin if you are "on a budget" and looking for the finest new tonearm you can buy for the money. I would."
Now, the above site isn't as fond over a stock Rega RB250-300, but the basic design is excellent in my book.
I'd choose a stock Sumiko over a stock RB250/300, and I think a modified Sumiko will perform almost as good as a modified RB250/300 for a fraction of the cost. A rewired MMT or FT-3/FT-4 would run you $450-$600 average, while the RB-250/300 with the Pete Riggles/Origin Live mods gets up to $750-$800.
But, at $750-$800, the RB250/300 with mods should have the lead over the sumiko.
Just hashing over this for reference to anyone wanting to mod a PL-41.
Both a stock or modified Sumiko (or Jelco) or modified RB-250/300 or stock RB-700 are all great choices.
thedelihaus
Nocturnal transmissions
More from High-End Audio on the Audioquest/Jelco/Sumiko arms, and a Denon DL-160...
NOTE: The Audioquest PT-6 is very similar to the Sumiko FT-3 and 4.
A few small details aside, the differences are the Audioquest comes with a sleeved arm tube and length is a tad shorter on the Audioquest (so the audioquest will not be a drop-in on the Pioneer).
Now, I re-wired and sleeved the Sumiko FT-3 for you, so it's performance is more in line with the Audioquest, which in stock form is kinda like a deluxe FT-4.
Okay, back to the Jelco/Audioquest/Sumiko info form high-end-audio.com....
"...A veteran reader/contributor has sent me some information...
""...I think the long term report is that the Denon DL160 is a fairly good cartridge...The Audioquest PT-6 tonearm probably has a lot to do with the sound, as it was a much better tonearm than the Rega RB300 that was an option during the early 90's when I bought the VPI HW-19. I discovered that the Audioquest tonearms were built by Jelco in Japan. Graham did an upgraded version called the Robin... If a person can't find a PT-6 through PT-9 at a low price on the used market, then maybe the Jelco tonearms are a real hot tip in the low priced tonearm market. Dealers who sold both usually recommended the Audioquest tonearms over the RB300 tonearm. One internet dealer had bought up the entire Audioquest tonearm stock when I was checking Denon cartridge prices last summer, and flatly stated it was far superior to the Rega competitors. One thing I noticed is that the tracking force and anti-skating adjustments were very accurate on my PT-6. The strong magnets in the DL160 preclude using a stylus force gauge that employs iron in the design, so that is a good thing. The silicone damping reservoir and plastic damped tube seem to work well. The Jelco tonearms may have an undamped tube, but it can be wrapped with a similar material...It could also be that the Denon DL160 just loves the PT-6 tonearm, as my cartridge/tonearm frequency sweep test track that spots the resonant frequency of the tonearm/cartridge combination failed to note a resonant frequency. I repeated the test as it seemed strange. The compliance is stiff enough that there should have been a resonance within the test frequency band, but I just couldn't spot it, visually or aurally. I keep the silicone reservoir rather full, so that probably helps. Maybe I got lucky and have a really good marriage of tonearm and cartridge. I can play music really loud without feedback being an issue.""
NOTE: The Audioquest PT-6 is very similar to the Sumiko FT-3 and 4.
A few small details aside, the differences are the Audioquest comes with a sleeved arm tube and length is a tad shorter on the Audioquest (so the audioquest will not be a drop-in on the Pioneer).
Now, I re-wired and sleeved the Sumiko FT-3 for you, so it's performance is more in line with the Audioquest, which in stock form is kinda like a deluxe FT-4.
Okay, back to the Jelco/Audioquest/Sumiko info form high-end-audio.com....
"...A veteran reader/contributor has sent me some information...
""...I think the long term report is that the Denon DL160 is a fairly good cartridge...The Audioquest PT-6 tonearm probably has a lot to do with the sound, as it was a much better tonearm than the Rega RB300 that was an option during the early 90's when I bought the VPI HW-19. I discovered that the Audioquest tonearms were built by Jelco in Japan. Graham did an upgraded version called the Robin... If a person can't find a PT-6 through PT-9 at a low price on the used market, then maybe the Jelco tonearms are a real hot tip in the low priced tonearm market. Dealers who sold both usually recommended the Audioquest tonearms over the RB300 tonearm. One internet dealer had bought up the entire Audioquest tonearm stock when I was checking Denon cartridge prices last summer, and flatly stated it was far superior to the Rega competitors. One thing I noticed is that the tracking force and anti-skating adjustments were very accurate on my PT-6. The strong magnets in the DL160 preclude using a stylus force gauge that employs iron in the design, so that is a good thing. The silicone damping reservoir and plastic damped tube seem to work well. The Jelco tonearms may have an undamped tube, but it can be wrapped with a similar material...It could also be that the Denon DL160 just loves the PT-6 tonearm, as my cartridge/tonearm frequency sweep test track that spots the resonant frequency of the tonearm/cartridge combination failed to note a resonant frequency. I repeated the test as it seemed strange. The compliance is stiff enough that there should have been a resonance within the test frequency band, but I just couldn't spot it, visually or aurally. I keep the silicone reservoir rather full, so that probably helps. Maybe I got lucky and have a really good marriage of tonearm and cartridge. I can play music really loud without feedback being an issue.""
MWalt
Super Member
Deli, are you advocating the DL-160? *grin*
In all honesty, I like the 110 so much that I am thinking about getting a 160 anyway.
thedelihaus
Nocturnal transmissions
I'm advocating the DL-103R based solely on discussions from friends, and the DL-103 at $119 is foolishly cheap.
The DL-160 is one of my all-time favorites, and for my low mass ADC LMF-2 arm, I'm huge on the Ortofon OM/Super OM30- so the heavier Ortofon Bronze, though not cheap, would be another top contender.
Mike from AudioLab in Cambridge sings the praises of the Ortofon Red, Blue, Bronze and Black- The Red the "best $200 cart for $99!", the blue marginally, but noticeably better, the Bronze a dramatic leap, and we didn't discuss the black.
So- as I like spending your money for you
) ), I'd go with the 103 or 103r, DL-160 and Ortophon Bronze.
The DL-160 is one of my all-time favorites, and for my low mass ADC LMF-2 arm, I'm huge on the Ortofon OM/Super OM30- so the heavier Ortofon Bronze, though not cheap, would be another top contender.
Mike from AudioLab in Cambridge sings the praises of the Ortofon Red, Blue, Bronze and Black- The Red the "best $200 cart for $99!", the blue marginally, but noticeably better, the Bronze a dramatic leap, and we didn't discuss the black.
So- as I like spending your money for you
) ), I'd go with the 103 or 103r, DL-160 and Ortophon Bronze.
thedelihaus
Nocturnal transmissions
I wonder who's more excited about Mark Walter's PL-41, him, or me!
I love helping restore one of these, vicariously through you guys.
And glad I could contribute some "hands-on" help with the updated arm and possibly some custom badge work.
I love helping restore one of these, vicariously through you guys.
And glad I could contribute some "hands-on" help with the updated arm and possibly some custom badge work.
MWalt
Super Member
No, it is the A-17 Integrated Amp. I really like this hybrid, good quality build and is basically the CV-15 with an amplifier section. Has the same two 12AX7's and 12AU7, along with a tube rectifier. I have replaced all but the rectifier with good old American NOS tubes. Still looking for the right replacement for that. It sounds way better than it's price range.
Very cool, lots of good being said regarding ShengYa Audio. I'm auditioning a Vincent (ShengYa) SA-31 hybrid pre and I like it. It has "personality".
Cheers,
Paul
ps...sorry about Bob Sanders, the guy can't catch a break.
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MWalt
Super Member
So- as I like spending your money for you
No problemo. My wife is way better at it than you anyway
Thank you for your kind words. I want this thread to be a sticky someday. NaptownRob started this thread over 350 posts ago and look where it has gone. Still a long way to go to catch up with the e-wave thread.
You and many others have helped immensly on this thread. But, I will say that my PL-41 has been as much your project as mine. Not possible without you, Finnbow, NaptownRob, Isotonic, Mrigotnomoney and others. We still have a ways to go!
I love that amp. As for Sanders, piss on him. We can still win a few games without him. We did fine last year without the dude. He stays hurt!:tears:
PickyEars81
Super Member
Refinish
I want to stain and refinish my pl-41. Everything is clean, but the finish is old and dull and the stain has faded a bit. The base is walnut, correct? Any recommendations for a stain/finish that won't have any negative impact on the sound or the vinyl itself? When I was going to school, I did staining/finishing for extra cash, but it was always home interior - not electronics...
I want to stain and refinish my pl-41. Everything is clean, but the finish is old and dull and the stain has faded a bit. The base is walnut, correct? Any recommendations for a stain/finish that won't have any negative impact on the sound or the vinyl itself? When I was going to school, I did staining/finishing for extra cash, but it was always home interior - not electronics...
MWalt
Super Member
It is plywood with a walnut veneer. I wouldn't sand down too far. My original plinth was bad to the point where I ended up doing new veneer with cherry.