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Got curious since I own a pair. Looks like the Chinese are making generic versions of the iconic MC275, claiming its a 1:1 clone.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001524328160.html
But in your picture, the units says McIntosh and I cannot see how they can get away with it. They used to make M&K clones and the company went under.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001524328160.html
But in your picture, the units says McIntosh and I cannot see how they can get away with it. They used to make M&K clones and the company went under.
trainbuftony
Electron Herder
Before anyone sics the McIntosh legal team on these jokers, can someone verify that they have not actually copied a 275 opt?
If someone is making cheap copies, and they work, I'm not above going right around McIntosh to obtain them.
Are they the real deal unity coupled with a tertiary feedback winding?
Wheres my first and second price breaks?
Inquiring minds want to know...
If someone is making cheap copies, and they work, I'm not above going right around McIntosh to obtain them.
Are they the real deal unity coupled with a tertiary feedback winding?
Wheres my first and second price breaks?
Inquiring minds want to know...
Umm, they’re in CHINA where our patents and copyrights aren’t enforced, do what they want.
MACKIE1975
Super Member
Copy the winding is easy. Usually the copy will use inferior parts and no quality control.
The only thing left is reliability.
The only thing left is reliability.
MACKIE1975
Super Member
A fake Rolex can never match the weight of the original and this is often used to tell a fake from a real one. Similarly, it should be fairly easy to detect a fake MC275 just from lifting it, or perhaps those buying a fake know its a fake. A neighbor owns a replica 911 that I can spot it a block away as a fake and have wondered who he is trying to impress.
trainbuftony
Electron Herder
I guess I wasn't crystal clear.
I'd like to analyze a sample of the Chinese copy against the genuine article. It would be real simple to tell if it's an exact copy.of the windings. If it's an exact copy, and performance is identical then I for one don't care about minor differences in the quality of materials. In general the quality of materials used in transformer winding has gone up over the years. Are they going to sound substantially different with plastic tape, in place of fish oil soaked paper?
Probably not...
The Chinese laugh at our patent laws.
This is an opportunity to reflect on our culture, and how it could change with the times, which we will of course not do.
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.
Real McIntosh 275s will hold their value.
I'd like to analyze a sample of the Chinese copy against the genuine article. It would be real simple to tell if it's an exact copy.of the windings. If it's an exact copy, and performance is identical then I for one don't care about minor differences in the quality of materials. In general the quality of materials used in transformer winding has gone up over the years. Are they going to sound substantially different with plastic tape, in place of fish oil soaked paper?
Probably not...
The Chinese laugh at our patent laws.
This is an opportunity to reflect on our culture, and how it could change with the times, which we will of course not do.
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.
Real McIntosh 275s will hold their value.
I am personally opposed to supporting sales & marketing of a counterfeit item, which is what this is. Passing a fake as an original. It would have been bad enough making a generic replica, but to actually badge it as an MC275? That is criminal.
Flattery part sounds good only to the buyer of the fake item, but what about the survival of an American company and its employees?
Flattery part sounds good only to the buyer of the fake item, but what about the survival of an American company and its employees?
clinic-audio
all on YAMAHA untill 1990
It would be real simple to tell if it's an exact copy.of the windings.
Think seriously about it . How can you make copy of something made in USA with wires and laminations coming from USA ?
it's an exact copy, and performance is identical then I for one don't care about minor differences in the quality of materials.
You can't get the same thing and I will add that if some members like to be XXXXXX by some !
Even in a dream they can't be the same
Making comparison with original do not interest me at all ! and if you were working on MCINTOSH product like I did since 42 years , you will not even think that they are "sounding" like original MC275.
Think seriously about it . How can you make copy of something made in USA with wires and laminations coming from USA ?
it's an exact copy, and performance is identical then I for one don't care about minor differences in the quality of materials.
You can't get the same thing and I will add that if some members like to be XXXXXX by some !
Even in a dream they can't be the same
Making comparison with original do not interest me at all ! and if you were working on MCINTOSH product like I did since 42 years , you will not even think that they are "sounding" like original MC275.
trainbuftony
Electron Herder
All speculation at this point.
China has been making transformers for s while. Do the electrons passing through a given transformer know where the materials were sourced from?
Do they make decisions based on copyright law?
No they follow ohms law.
I have no doubts that anyone with the technical skills and equipment could clone an exact copy.
Does it perform the same?
Does it cost less?
I'm in.
I have no loyalty to corporate America.
Not even McIntosh.
I've searched deep inside my -30s and there isn't any magic there. Its accomplished using resistors, capacitors, tubes, wire, and iron. Basic materials available anywhere...
All I'm saying is reserve judgment until you test one. They could have made an exact copy, or they could have potted some mystery transformer and called it a McIntosh, or anything in between those scenarios.
Bring me one, theres a real 275 about 5 min from me at a friends home.
We can put them head to head, test them out, and then we will know.
Until we have measured, we can't know.
China has been making transformers for s while. Do the electrons passing through a given transformer know where the materials were sourced from?
Do they make decisions based on copyright law?
No they follow ohms law.
I have no doubts that anyone with the technical skills and equipment could clone an exact copy.
Does it perform the same?
Does it cost less?
I'm in.
I have no loyalty to corporate America.
Not even McIntosh.
I've searched deep inside my -30s and there isn't any magic there. Its accomplished using resistors, capacitors, tubes, wire, and iron. Basic materials available anywhere...
All I'm saying is reserve judgment until you test one. They could have made an exact copy, or they could have potted some mystery transformer and called it a McIntosh, or anything in between those scenarios.
Bring me one, theres a real 275 about 5 min from me at a friends home.
We can put them head to head, test them out, and then we will know.
Until we have measured, we can't know.
Materials make a huge difference, better steel and better copper, the equipment and knowledge necessary to make them, equipment and knowledge necessary to know why a certain process or material was used, reverse-engineering is an art, and although the Chinese have an interest in selling to the 90% buyers, they don’t really care about that top 10% that is able to understand and detect the difference. I’ve owned a Yaqin tube amp, it was crap, even though the circuit design should have yielded good quality sound, because they either didn’t know or didn’t care about using high-quality materials and processes. Much like making a filament light-bulb for example, if everything looks and measures the same but there are impurities or irregularities in the tungsten filament then the light will burn out in a fraction of the time of the better quality lamp. Those who didn’t understand some of those factors and purchased or designed the cheap bulb just did what they knew. I’ve had so many similar experiences with far-east sourced components that were made wrong and unusable because the Chinese (etc.) casting/machining/molding/etc. company didn’t fully understand the design (thank you Purchasing for constantly wasting our time and money on trying to save pennies).
However I won’t disagree with you train, nothing but speculation based on parallel experience / extrapolation, no way to know without extensive testing and validation. Personally I’ll stick with what I know works, the “buy once cry once” is certainly a lesson I’ve learned in life and buying quality has served me well.
However I won’t disagree with you train, nothing but speculation based on parallel experience / extrapolation, no way to know without extensive testing and validation. Personally I’ll stick with what I know works, the “buy once cry once” is certainly a lesson I’ve learned in life and buying quality has served me well.
If you are that curious, why not buy one yourself for a one on one test?
trainbuftony
Electron Herder
Because my bank account balance will not allow it.
Not at this time.
I own the test gear, my friend owns the genuine article, and if someone can bring me a "fake" one, I can find the differences.
If I can't find the differences, you should buy the copy, assuming its cheaper.
Thats the offer.
Take it or leave it.
My location is in Northern California.
Let's call the boys and have a shoot out.
It will be fun, I promise.
(^that's very real)
In order to comply with the terms of my probation I'm expressly disallowed from importing fake unity coupled amplifiers for about 7 more years.
(That's a joke)
This thread is from 2010, so its been going on for a while it seems.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/counterfeit-mc275s.335798/
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/counterfeit-mc275s.335798/
Besides my enjoyment of the performance and capability that genuine McIntosh equipment represents, I also have a total respect for the man behind the Mac name. For me then, anything other than a genuine piece is completely unacceptable, no matter how good a copy it might be. It all originated from the minds of Frank and Gordon, so it's their version of their designs that have meaning for me. The combination of Mac performance from genuine Mac gear? Priceless!
Dave
Dave
