Mcintosh XR-3 VS JBL Century 100

[VintagePlus]

I just need an opinion from you knowledgable folks. I currently have a set of Mcintosh XR3 speakers but am considering a switch to JBL century L100's.
Which is the better sounding speaker?

 

[Dr. Mordo]

I have a set of JBl 4311Bs, which are the same thing as a L100.

They really stink.

I know people love L100s, but they are the diametric opposite of a neutral sounding speaker. They color the sound so much I can hardly believe it, and not in a good way. I love JBL. I have 6 sets of JBLs. The L100s are by a long shot the worst of the bunch.

It is impossible for me to believe that anything made by Mcintosh could possibly be inferior to a L100.

 

[nbarber]

Do you have an opportunity to A/B them? Asking what speaker sounds like can be like asking what a sound tastes like. You will get all kinds of opinions with all kinds of adjectives but it's all subjective. I have a set of L100's that I have preferred to all the other speakers I have tested.

 

[shortcuttomo]

I have a set of JBl 4311Bs, which are the same thing as a L100.

They really stink.

I know people love L100s, but they are the diametric opposite of a neutral sounding speaker. They color the sound so much I can hardly believe it, and not in a good way.

Really.

I've only heard the 4312, but to my knowledge the 4311 was the preferred studio rock monitor from the late 60s to early 80s.

I've always assumed that a monitor speaker like that would be quite neutral. I know they were a midrange-focused speaker, but I've never heard anyone say they were the "diametric opposite" of a neutral speaker.

Interesting!

greg

 

[Uncle Paul]

Really.

I've only heard the 4312, but to my knowledge the 4311 was the preferred studio rock monitor from the late 60s to early 80s.

I've always assumed that a monitor speaker like that would be quite neutral. I know they were a midrange-focused speaker, but I've never heard anyone say they were the "diametric opposite" of a neutral speaker.

Interesting!

greg

The 4311 was voiced to be a drop in equivalent of the Altec 604 monitors that were prevalent at the time in control rooms. The L100 was the consumer version, and the 4312 is a later version. They are by no means neutral, but can be tweaked quite a bit. There are many posts on the subject of these speakers and tweaks if you care to search.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3883768&postcount=39

 

[carbonman]

The L100 is really a long way from neutral. The McIntosh speaker in good electronic repair (good caps and surrounds) will sound much better than the JBL.
I had a pair of 4311's that I loved for the 17 years I had them. Once I bought a better pair of speakers, the 4311's were unlistenable. I've been working my way up the speaker food chain ever since. My wallet hates me.

 

[kfa888]

Agree. The L100 is a fun speaker and i like it for pounding out rock when i feel like it but are far from flat / accurate IMHO. As are many speakers that are loved.

 

[Dr. Mordo]

I just re-read my post, and I don't like it. I could edit it, but figured it would make more sense to leave it.

I really shouldn't say the L100/4311Bs 'stink'. That is unnecessarily harsh. What is true about them is that they color the sound very dramatically. That heavily colored sound may be your cup of tea; certainly many people love them. But for me, I need a more neutral speaker.

And, for what it's worth, I have spent hours tweaking both the L-pads in the speaker and the eq on my amp (Pioneer SA-9500II, which has a four band eq) , and I cannot get them anywhere close to neutral sounding. There is a very awkward peak in the upper midrange, and due to a very weak crossover design the L-pads can do almost nothing to tame it.

Greg: What I have read, although I cannot point you to the source, is that the 4311Bs were a consumer monitor. They were a less expensive way for a 70s consumer to get a speaker in his house that claimed to be a studio monitor. But they are functionally identical to a L100. They have a very simple crossover that does little to control the sound, and actually creates that sharp peak in the upper midrange. My plan is to build new crossovers for mine. I suspect they could be much better speakers with a more tightly controlled frequency allocation.

 

[shortcuttomo]

Good stuff guys. I didn't know anything about them but just assumed they were in studios everywhere because they were neutral.


I took a listen to the 4312 but liked the Energy 22 speakers much better.

Greg

 

[Zilch]

Good stuff guys. I didn't know anything about them but just assumed they were in studios everywhere because they were neutral.

They were in studios everywhere because it was their intended use, well executed, to mimic the inaccurate Altec 604 that was then industry standard, in a smaller package for use nearfield, on the meter bridge.

Engineers took them home and liked how they sounded there, misapplied, and thus the consumer L100, the quintessential West Coast rock speaker with boomy bass, forward midrange, and rolled-off highs was born. 4311(B) was sold through pro dealers only up until pricing was deregulated and consumers discovered they were cheaper than L100s. JBL never called them "Studio Monitors," however.

[Says not right on the label.... :thmbsp: ]

 

[marc mc]

I took a listen to the 4312 but liked the Energy 22 speakers much better.

I took crap about a year ago for saying something along those lines. Up here many audiophiles were heavily influenced by what came out of the NRC and some local guys that rocked the world with their speakers. The government invested heavily in the developement of great speakers in the form of grants to use the facilities.

The speakers coming out of the UK and the speakers from the NRC were sole in every shop I knew back then. I can never remember JBL, Altec, Advent or AR speakers having any impact on what was going on up here. The better ADS speakers like the 910 had a following but that was it.

I grabbed a pair of L100's and set them up in the livingroom to sell and thought they sounded bad. I have a pair of Mac XRT-18's on that system that my wife uses all the time and I play while at the computer. I asked the boys and her what they thought of them and I got a chorus of NO's.

I had a pair of McIntosh ML-1C given to me that I liked and used for parts so I have little doubt the XR3's would be the way to go.

marc mc

 

[shortcuttomo]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you. I thought the 4312s were thoroughly outperformed by the 22 Reference speakers. And those 22s were in themselves bettered by the 22 Reference Connoisseurs.

Of course there's something of a price difference there, of course.

greg

 

[marc mc]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you. I thought the 4312s were thoroughly outperformed by the 22 Reference speakers. And those 22s were in themselves bettered by the 22 Reference Connoisseurs.

Of course there's something of a price difference there, of course.

greg

But Greg if you remember we had speakers like the Paisley reference 2's, Paradigm 7 se and even the Energy ESM's that got alot of the music right at half the price of the 22's. We were spoiled with the options that API and the NRC provided.

Any and all those speakers would have handed the JBL's I found and sold its hat.

marc mc

 

[shortcuttomo]

Yeah, agreed. It was a pair of ESM-2s that eventually led me to the 22. I've also never run into a Clements speaker despite some searching a while back, but by many accounts he was possibly building some of the best speakers in the world at their price point - too bad he couldn't seem to get the word out!

It was undoubtably a great time to be a Canadian speaker manufacturer. We've come a long, long way.... :sigh:

greg

 

[marc mc]

Yeah, agreed. It was a pair of ESM-2s that eventually led me to the 22. I've also never run into a Clements speaker despite some searching a while back, but by many accounts he was possibly building some of the best speakers in the world at their price point - too bad he couldn't seem to get the word out!

It was undoubtably a great time to be a Canadian speaker manufacturer. We've come a long, long way.... :sigh:

greg

I had the ultimate 22 collection. Every model, spare boxes, crossovers and 13 extra drivers. The RT-7, RB-8's handed all of it their hat.

I still use the extra drivers for DIY but everthing else now belongs to someone else. I love the 22's, but they are not even close.

BTW lets not forget the impact Dayton-Wright had on the market up here. I still own and love 5 pairs of Micheals speakers.

marc mc

 

[shortcuttomo]

Haha yeah, I think I told you earlier that the Clements RT-7 has been my goal for some time. Those and/or the Veritas 1.8/2.8 have always been on my list. The only ones I've ever stumbled across have always been in another part of the country, and/or out of my price range at that particular moment. Of course they seem to get snapped up fairly quickly as well.

(Out of mild curiosity, have you ever heard an Energy Veritas 1.8 or 2.8? Both of those speakers get serious respect, and I've always been curious as to how they would fare against the RT-7.)

When I was researching Clements I stumbled across some speaker company he now has in the States. I guess he's still soldiering on. Not sure if/how his product as changed, but for some reason - if I remember correctly - I didn't think he was using a ribbon any more.

greg

p.s. I see the 22 tweeters hanging in the background with a woofer above it in the cab...another DIY project I guess? I've never seen those Dayton-Wright speakers before, though.