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New Project Very Early TD 124

I have a 69 Firebird convertible. I can’t tell you how many people have suggested changes to make it faster and more modern. I balk at every step and kept it as original as possible. Still looks the same as the day it came from the factory. It’s just my preference.

I totally get that. And if it's collector car value you're interested in, complete originality is the way to go, as you doubtless know. But I note that you didn't claim that your Firebird's performance couldn't be improved - just that you choose not to. So the question is, "Is your TD124 primarily for listening, or primarily a collector's item?" You'll probably say it can be both, but which is its primary purpose in your mind?
 
I'll be the first to admit that my results are based purely on listening and no scientific measurements. But what I heard made me happy, and isn't that what matters?

With that out of the way, my experience removing the mushrooms was twofold (and to restate, this was with the same massive plinth, first with, then without the mushrooms). One, which was somewhat expected but I didn't believe it until I heard it, was that the table became quieter. Lower noise floor. I could crank it up louder before hearing any noise between tracks. After all, the entire stated premise of the massive plinth, as I've always heard it, is to absorb vibration. The mushrooms create a buffer between the table and plinth so all of that mass can't do its job. I'd even go so far as to say that a massive plinth with mushrooms probably doesn't perform any better than a hollow box with mushrooms, thought it might look better.

Second, and completely unexpected, was that the slam, or PRAT, that idlers are so good at was noticeably improved. Upon hearing it, I surmised that by mounting the table solidly I made the entire platform more rigid, allowing the stylus to trace the groove more accurately. Again, this is admittedly unscientific, and just my brain trying to explain what I hear.

Your account corresponds closely with others that have used a heavy plinth design, believe Steve at theanalogdept has said about the same….

I’ll certainly post my findings but it’s gonna be a while ;)

VR
Andy
 
I totally get that. And if it's collector car value you're interested in, complete originality is the way to go, as you doubtless know. But I note that you didn't claim that your Firebird's performance couldn't be improved - just that you choose not to. So the question is, "Is your TD124 primarily for listening, or primarily a collector's item?" You'll probably say it can be both, but which is its primary purpose in your mind?

Damn… that’s a great question. You’re right on the car. Could be improved with a 400 vs 350 engine. Updated Tranny. Dual carbs and fuel injection. Just not where I ever wanted to go with that car. The good news with the table is the reversing the mentioned changes is sooper easy. Definitely gave me something to think about.
 
Ok have it in hand, and it’s always good when it looks better in person than in the photos:thumbsup:

Everything is extremely clean, only issue, besides the known problem with the speed selector band, is that one of the screws in the power block is stripped. The little block that the power cord attached to, the Bakelite in each is broken by someone using too large a screwdriver:no:

Still has the plastic bearings, but there’s no sign of any galling, put some wax on the shaft and the thing looks like a mirror! I’ll get the micrometer out tomorrow and check tolerances…

The well had a slightly larger ball bearing installed, little over 7mm, just enough to avoid using the clutch, clean out the old oil, put in a 6mm bearing and ISO 46 turbine oil.

Hooked up a DBT and variac and boom, it came up to speed :thumbsup: Extremely quiet but miles to go before I listen….

Here’s a few photos:

F3EC0372-88E1-41F3-A1C1-E07C0034C78D.jpeg D8E9FDC7-CDE4-43E4-B402-6B34EF66B970.jpeg 3CCFDA25-C3D0-4B8A-A0B8-5ACAB7E39197.jpeg 6B211AD5-D353-47A6-B9DD-5CDE7BF3E9D3.jpeg

Excited to get this one done,

Andy
 
How did you determine the ball bearing was incorrect? I mean you just got it. Looks like you still have a bubble in the level. Amazing. How was it packed? Always curious about that. Any pictures of the packing? Excited for ya!
 
It was packed extremely well, came from fellow AK member @olyguy :thumbsup: big box with each individual piece inside its own box….

Noticed the clutch wasn’t lifting the top plate, and everything looked right as far as the clutch was concerned so I started looking for possible reasons.

It occurred to me that a larger ball bearing would cause the clutch not to engage, got the micrometer and it measured over 6mm, didn’t do real precise measurements on the ball so it’s probably a 1/4” just saw it was 7mm.

Replacing the ball fixed the clutch immediately, so I got lucky ;)

Checked the bubble level and it’s really close, actually close enough to level the table….

I’m going to make sure it’s lubed properly, then do some test runs in 33 rpm, have most of my refurbish parts in hand but the steel ribbon is still on the way.

Noticed that Audiosilente sells a ceramic block to replace the Bakelite one, just hate to pay shipping on something that small:no:

Andy
 
Beautiful!
Really good condition, nice specimen. Even the original idler looks like it's in good shape.
Make sure to check the capacitor across the plunger switch. Mine went bad and boy, could the turntable send a pop audible through the speakers each time the switch was actuated.
Have fun!
 
I still run one. One recurring issue I had was a buzzing and drop in speed. Would happen at random. Tried several grounding points and frustrated myself beyond belief. Turns out what was causing it was the switch that is actuated by the on/off lever. There is an adjustable part which pushes against the switch. Adjusted that and no issues.
TD124, #13458.
 

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I still run one. One recurring issue I had was a buzzing and drop in speed. Would happen at random. Tried several grounding points and frustrated myself beyond belief. Turns out what was causing it was the switch that is actuated by the on/off lever. There is an adjustable part which pushes against the switch. Adjusted that and no issues.
TD124, #13458.

Love that arm. I used the same on a TD124. Was a nice match.
 
I still run one. One recurring issue I had was a buzzing and drop in speed. Would happen at random. Tried several grounding points and frustrated myself beyond belief. Turns out what was causing it was the switch that is actuated by the on/off lever. There is an adjustable part which pushes against the switch. Adjusted that and no issues.
TD124, #13458.

Thanks for the input, and I have the same arm:thumbsup:

Have owned several types but that one is by far my favorite, and it has very little in the way of “bells and whistles”:eek:
 
Did some work today checking tolerances just to make sure there’s no issues:05EFB74D-BC48-4717-9029-C95BB004FE9B.jpeg

Installed the new thrust plate and pad from Audiosilente

F9642270-46AB-4AF1-82AE-BFE6EAC82FB0.jpeg

Checked the platter runout with a dial indicator, however can’t figure out how to load a video at the moment :dunno:
Good news is the dial indicator’s movement was almost undetectable :thumbsup: (platter to tonearm, lateral movement)

Have it playing a test record right now, start with a 1kHz to 10 kHz sweep then a silent track, oscilloscope hooked to the speaker output of the amp. Have a video of this also, so when I figure out how to load it….

Anyway the silent track test is impressive, also have it hooked up to a Tube W&F analyzer, it’s around.02 W&F, for comparison my enhanced Russco is about.04 W&F ( thanks to @BillWojo :naughty:) so no one would find fault with either one.

Have silicone motor mounts from Audiosilente, so I’ll install those next….

The motor speed was fast at 122 volts, (33.89) so I hooked it to a variac and it’s very happy around 112 volts

more to come,

Andy
 
The motor speed was fast at 122 volts, (33.89) so I hooked it to a variac and it’s very happy around 112 volts
Nice job Andy! The E50 motor stabilizes over time when it reaches a working temperature. Depending on the season (and lube), it can take anything from 40 to 60 minutes, sometimes more (especially the Mk-I with the smaller coils). Reducing the working voltage isn't a permanent solution. In fact, it's not going to stay happy for long. The eddy current break is the standard way to finalize and fine tune speed when the motor finally stabilizes.
 
Nice job Andy! The E50 motor stabilizes over time when it reaches a working temperature. Depending on the season (and lube), it can take anything from 40 to 60 minutes, sometimes more (especially the Mk-I with the smaller coils). Reducing the working voltage isn't a permanent solution. In fact, it's not going to stay happy for long. The eddy current break is the standard way to finalize and fine tune speed when the motor finally stabilizes.

Thanks, I’ve read some similar comments, and you’ve certainly the experience, I’ll keep close tabs on it. Was thinking I’d just plug it into the bucking transformer that powers my other gear, so I’ll just adjust the brake at 116 volts.

It performed well today for about 3 hours, I’ll pay more attention to the speed tomorrow….

Andy
 
Using a test record with an oscilloscope is a very useful tool in determining signal to noise ratios, in other words looking for noise (rumble)

The first photo was taken at the end of the tone track mentioned above, note the signal strength, volume is at right around 85 db

CB237CDC-F809-43E8-B064-E0C9D482B878.png

Next photo is during the silent track, volume was not touched, this is what one wants to see, nothing ;)

5934F978-4D93-4B8D-AB37-EAF9260C8FC7.png

VR
Andy
 
Checked shaft endplay, and checked the platter centering as described at http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/td124page.html
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Didn’t need to, was just curious…

Also changed the motor mounts, the original ones were still in excellent shape. Didn’t realize the new gel mounts from Audiosilente are 2 piece, forgot to take a picture of the new ones…one note, it’s easier to replace them one at a time.

Made some thin paper shims and adjusted the Eddy brake as suggested above, warmed up motor, and speed is very stable.
559CCA00-F407-426F-92B9-53D7D80DF1AE.jpeg
 
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