New Separates from Line Magnetic...
- Thread starter RGA
- Start date
libertycaps
Analogue "AAA" vinyl.
Great thread. Need to wipe the drool off my keyboard now. Proud owner of the LM-215CD CDP (Thanks, Art K!) for over a year now. Seamless thus far and keeps sounding more and more lush. The LM-212 budget pre-amp could bump my PAS3 off it's spot in the future when it becomes widely avail in the US.
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They sure have quite a few products but from a marketing standpoint they need to reconsider pricing. Case and point, the 211IA and 216IA are just a couple hundred dollars apart then comes the 218IA at double the 216IA price then after that for just over another 1k you have the 501IA, 518IA and the 510IA all bunched together price wise. There are no offerings in the 2k-3k price range and the gap between the 216IA and 218IA is huge at double the price. I also think that the customer gets over whelmed when looking at the 501,518 and 510 being in the same price ballpark, as we all want the best at any given price point.
RGA
Super Member
I think the issue is that we are too used to SS amps. More watts equals more money.
Tube amps are often grouped in price because the cost in making them are close. EL34, KT88, and KT120 for example. Audio Note is similar. $4k and $5k amps jump to $9k for the 300b Meishu.
The more pertinent question is whether the 211 and 216 will hang in with $2500 amps. I think they do. It takes a 218 to really make a noteworthy upgrade. I would mention the Audio Note I Zero as a kickass beautiful sounding $2500alternative but it is only 9watts and looks nothing but it is a big jump over the 211 and 216 if you have sensitive speakers.
Tube amps are often grouped in price because the cost in making them are close. EL34, KT88, and KT120 for example. Audio Note is similar. $4k and $5k amps jump to $9k for the 300b Meishu.
The more pertinent question is whether the 211 and 216 will hang in with $2500 amps. I think they do. It takes a 218 to really make a noteworthy upgrade. I would mention the Audio Note I Zero as a kickass beautiful sounding $2500alternative but it is only 9watts and looks nothing but it is a big jump over the 211 and 216 if you have sensitive speakers.
ultralight
Member
RH67, I can see what you say from a marketing point of view.
However, in the various hobbies I had, I noticed that there are a number of philosophies whether it is in firearms, or guitars, or whatever that can possibly stretch up to strastospheric prices. At one end, there are companies that place itself in the premium category and spend an extraordinary amount of $ advertising. Some actually do make top of the line products, but not all do. By my estimate, some products had about 1/3 to 1/2 of its price in advertising!
On the other end of the spectrum are the few and rare companies whose owners put out excellent products but spend next to nothing in advertising and price their products at a very high ratio of value to dollar in their own country of manufacture. They are not impressed by or motivated by the latest marketing methodologies. This include not making products driven by price points, but rather whether there is a functional reason for a product.
Obviously I prefer the latter approach but since they do not advertise much if at all, they are harder to find and require careful search/evaluation.
My impression is that Line Magnetic belongs to the latter. If I am correct, LM thus offer among the higher value for the $.
UL
However, in the various hobbies I had, I noticed that there are a number of philosophies whether it is in firearms, or guitars, or whatever that can possibly stretch up to strastospheric prices. At one end, there are companies that place itself in the premium category and spend an extraordinary amount of $ advertising. Some actually do make top of the line products, but not all do. By my estimate, some products had about 1/3 to 1/2 of its price in advertising!
On the other end of the spectrum are the few and rare companies whose owners put out excellent products but spend next to nothing in advertising and price their products at a very high ratio of value to dollar in their own country of manufacture. They are not impressed by or motivated by the latest marketing methodologies. This include not making products driven by price points, but rather whether there is a functional reason for a product.
Obviously I prefer the latter approach but since they do not advertise much if at all, they are harder to find and require careful search/evaluation.
My impression is that Line Magnetic belongs to the latter. If I am correct, LM thus offer among the higher value for the $.
UL
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I agree with the statement about LM not selling items at specific price points. That's what makes me skeptical about a lot of speaker cable/interconnect companies, there seems to be a line covering each $100 price point, I doubt they found one tweak/improvement to fill each gap.
I actually have a newbie question. I have an LM518 but besides checking if the 845's hold their bias, how do you know when you replace the driver tubes vs preamp tubes vs the rectifier tubes?
I actually have a newbie question. I have an LM518 but besides checking if the 845's hold their bias, how do you know when you replace the driver tubes vs preamp tubes vs the rectifier tubes?
Tubes can last for years or thousands of hours, i still have tube amps from the 70`s and 80`s with the original tubes and the tubes still test as good to very good.
If you have a tube that is failing you will notice a difference in sound, a lack of bass, smaller soundstage, lack of 3D imaging, detail ect. But as i said this happens after many years or 1000`s of hours, the few exceptions as of late for me have been Psvane power tubes where i had four go bad in less than a month.
Alligator1
Active Member
Man that was a nicely written review. I really like his style (not to mention- he uses tekton m-lores, which is the speakers I plan on getting :thmbsp: )
I recently decided that my first tube amp purchase will be the 211ia(I like the el34/12ax7/12au7 recipe over the 216's).
But after reading that review... I'm wondering if I should save up more & get the 218ia or 518ia. I'm only 36, but going on what he said, it seems like the 218/518 could be one of those 'the last amp I'll ever buy' type of amps. The kind of amp that will save you money in the long run by not moving up incrementaly...
I kind of wish I hadn't read that
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RGA
Super Member
The 211 is very nice - one of the finest PP tube amps I've heard really when it comes to vocals. When I went into the dealer here he was playing a female jazz singer and it was goosebump good driving ATC 100s. (A difficult to drive speaker). On larger music it has more trouble sounding large and weighty.
I have not heard the 218/518 but you're now into SET amplification so you get the smaller amp finesse with the large and weighty. The 845 and 211 are the big power tubes. Although not as expensive in general to 300Bs.
Today I had a few girls over as they were going to the beach and while waiting they wanted dance music - and they like loud with bass so I put on some Armin Van Buuren trance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPPpt08rim4 - the big power supplies (granted I have the 219) can bring the thunder and on speakers not noted for bass it was able to produce a lot of oomph (Audio Note AX Two speakers).
I don't like telling people to spend more than they can afford but at the same time not spending enough can end up costing you more money down the line.
I struggle to find a weakness in the 219. And the 218/518 I suspect will be much closer in sound than the 211 (well it's 7 closer for one).
I have not heard the 218/518 but you're now into SET amplification so you get the smaller amp finesse with the large and weighty. The 845 and 211 are the big power tubes. Although not as expensive in general to 300Bs.
Today I had a few girls over as they were going to the beach and while waiting they wanted dance music - and they like loud with bass so I put on some Armin Van Buuren trance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPPpt08rim4 - the big power supplies (granted I have the 219) can bring the thunder and on speakers not noted for bass it was able to produce a lot of oomph (Audio Note AX Two speakers).
I don't like telling people to spend more than they can afford but at the same time not spending enough can end up costing you more money down the line.
I struggle to find a weakness in the 219. And the 218/518 I suspect will be much closer in sound than the 211 (well it's 7 closer for one).
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Brian
An Old Geezer
As soon as I saw the 212 tube, my first thought was I wonder if they could do a nice OTL using say 12 of them per channel or so, similar to the Futternman design. Why use those puny 6550/KT88s. Imagine a brace of them powering a double set of Beveridge or Fulton e'stats.
Imagine the electric company checking to see if the Smart Meter was woncky and the fuzz coming out to see if you were operating a growup. Once past that, imagine doing a wholesale retubing. But on the bright side (no pun intended) you would not have to fret about rolling tube brands.
Imagine the electric company checking to see if the Smart Meter was woncky and the fuzz coming out to see if you were operating a growup. Once past that, imagine doing a wholesale retubing. But on the bright side (no pun intended) you would not have to fret about rolling tube brands.
Valveglow
Super Member
Lee Harvey
Well-Known Member
Wow!!!! What show was all that gear shown at? Makes me want to book a flight to Hong Kong to go see/play with this stuff. :yes:
Brian
An Old Geezer
I do not know what they are drinking to come up with that stuff but, I want a couple of gallons of it.
Field coil tweeter? #1126 Line Level Preamp! If the drivers sound as good as they look everyone better move over as there is a new sheriff in town. The turntable has a motor that looks like it came from an electric car.
Field coil tweeter? #1126 Line Level Preamp! If the drivers sound as good as they look everyone better move over as there is a new sheriff in town. The turntable has a motor that looks like it came from an electric car.
