Pink Floyd slams Pandora

[89grand]

This topic looks like it's heading for a lock. Maybe it can get back on topic with Pandora and musicians instead of tax rates, people supposedly being too rich, starving children, etc.

 

[pitabread]

We're talking about people being fairly compensated for their work. For every Pink Floyd their are 1000 starving songwriters and musicians being screwed by the music industry. Screwing them further doesn't feed anybody, let alone some kid in Uganda.




Whatever you make, you're making more than most of the world. Probably more than 90% of the world. So why don't you take 90% of your earnings, sell all of your stereo equipment, and send it to those starving children? Because what really is the difference from being in the top 1% as opposed to the top 10%? Where's the cutoff? Why is your money yours, even though you're wealthy by global standards, while the money of anybody who makes more than you "ours"?

If I thought it would make an impact the same as if Roger gave away 90 percent of his wealth I'd do it tomorrow.
But as it stands, 90 percent of very little is not going to touch the sides.
But then again I dont bang on about the atrocities happening in the world in the public eye as a lot of super rich musicians do.

 

[pitabread]

This topic looks like it's heading for a lock. Maybe it can get back on topic with Pandora and musicians instead of tax rates, people supposedly being too rich, starving children, etc.

Quite right, sorry guys, my fault.

 

[JohnVF]

So are you, Matteos, out there giving everything that you earn over the median world yearly income of $1225?

This topic is about earnings. And people should be ENTITLED to what they earn. And you earn by doing. And musicians and songwriters DO the work. I can see paying for distribution but the product is made by the songwriters and musicians. They should earn a high percentage of the selling price the consumer pays.

 

[62sunbeam]

I'm guessing they're happier with the royalty agreement they have with spotify than the one They have with Pandora.

Can't imagine there's much if anything more to it.

Oh, and by the way, they do not get the same deal as everyone else on Spotify same as the Beatles get more from Apple than anyone else.

All about the Benjamin's! Big freaking bags full of Benjamin's!


By the way, which one's Pink?



Eric

 

[pitabread]

So are you, Matteos, out there giving everything that you earn over the median world yearly income of $1225?

This topic is about earnings. And people should be ENTITLED to what they earn. And you earn by doing. And musicians and songwriters DO the work. I can see paying for distribution but the product is made by the songwriters and musicians. They should earn a high percentage of the selling price the consumer pays.

They dont though , last I heard the record company took most of it.
They should be entitled to what they earn , arnt they? And what they earn should be their decision, so people like Roger could easily say I've earned enough and I will give something back to the people without whom I'd have earned nothing, the fans.
Didn't Trent Reznor do this lately?

 

[JohnVF]

They dont though , last I heard the record company took most of it.
They should be entitled to what they earn , arnt they? And what they earn should be their decision, so people like Roger could easily say I've earned enough and I will give something back to the people without whom I'd have earned nothing, the fans.
Didn't Trent Reznor do this lately?

Roger's given plenty to me through his music.

I can not believe how entitled some of you are. Its his money, its his decision. And you saying that "its his decision but it should be that its our money not his" is not really saying its his decision.

 

[+48V]

Cable and XM aren't replacing physical media.

Huh? Pandora?

MOG, Spotify, Rhapsody, and rdio I'll give you that...but Pandora? :scratch2:

Does AM/FM "replace" physical media?

 

[matteos]

So are you, Matteos, out there giving everything that you earn over the median world yearly income of $1225?

This topic is about earnings. And people should be ENTITLED to what they earn. And you earn by doing. And musicians and songwriters DO the work. I can see paying for distribution but the product is made by the songwriters and musicians. They should earn a high percentage of the selling price the consumer pays.

I think if you have more money than you can possibly spend, and that takes into account that you might be out there spending it like MC Hammer, you probably should give some of it away, or even all of it like Buffet after you're dead. But you are not obliged to do so. To me having that much money is just akin to getting buried with your slaves in a big pile of gold at the bottom of a pyramid... I'm not saying you can't do it, or you are somehow evil (at least if you've earned your money fairly) I'm just saying... Why? What's the point of accumulating so much wealth? To raise bratty kids like Hilton or Kardashian?

I do think though if you have an amount of money like Bono, you are obliged to shut up if you aren't planning to give away a sizeable chunk. Anybody who wails about the starving poor whilst sitting on a big stack of money needs to shut up.

 

[matteos]

Roger's given plenty to me through his music.

I can not believe how entitled some of you are. Its his money, its his decision. And you saying that "its his decision but it should be that its our money not his" is not really saying its his decision.

I'm personally defending the rights of musicians to make money. Something which the vast majority don't. I'm not saying I'm entitled to anybodies money.

I do wonder though how likely going forward from 2013 anybody with the artistic merit of say a Waters or Bowie or a McCartney would make similar levels of money. I don't think it would happen anymore. You'd maybe have the manufactured stars like Bieber or gaga pulling in those levels of income, but I'm not so sure anybody else would

 

[pitabread]

Roger's given plenty to me through his music.

I can not believe how entitled some of you are. Its his money, its his decision. And you saying that "its his decision but it should be that its our money not his" is not really saying its his decision.

It is , to me however whining over a few quid when you are worth 150 plus million (declared) is a show of character.

 

[MaloCS]

Sure, that's all true.

But why, if you were absolutely wealthy (and we're not talking rich people here, we're talking people with absurd amounts of money) not just donate the majority of it after you die? Do something positive. Keep enough back for your kids to not have to struggle. There is a limit to how much money anybody needs.

I see people like Bono, who has something like $600 million. A lot of it made through smart business decisions, not just from music, but things like investing in Facebook, moving their money from Ireland to the Netherlands in order to avoid paying so much tax. Which is I guess "Tax dodging" but was supposedly done in protest.

I just wonder what the point is of accumulating so much wealth. Bono is always banging on about Africa. He could personally give half a billion dollars to fund well building, road building projects, schools etc and he wouldn't notice, it wouldn't affect his lifestyle at all.

He says he cares about these pet projects and so many rich celebrities claim they do, they are raising "awareness".. What good is awareness? How is it going to help a child starving to death that I know about it? I may donate $20 to charity, the majority of which will be swallowed up by the charities administrative costs. But he could go around everything, it's his money, he can get around all the corruption and waste and affect something positive.

I know I've gone on a rant now, so apologies. I just find it amazing that there are people with so much wealth, who claim to care and could affect a great change with no actual hit on their own lavish lifestyle and the majority don't.

:tresbon: :thmbsp:

 

[pitabread]

John Lennon once wrote ''Imagine no possessions, I wonder if you can'' whilst playing a large brown Steinway upright piano that later sold for over $2 million, the video to the song depicts him in a white suit, in his mansion, playing a big glossy white piano. He was worth something like eight hundred million dollars when he died.

''Imagine no possessions, I wonder if you can''

There are some people to whom this scenario is very much not in their imagination.

 

[+48V]

This topic looks like it's heading for a lock. Maybe it can get back on topic with Pandora and musicians instead of tax rates, people supposedly being too rich, starving children, etc.

Agreed. Such a misunderstood issue this. Lends itself to go off topic and into the weeds.

It's my hope that we can continue to have a civil and intelligent discussion here.

Given the superficial gist, parroted rhetoric, and down right inaccuracies from Waters, Gilmour, and Mason in the Pink Floyd piece (among several of same all about the web) it deserves a much better understanding & appreciation of the facts.

So cheers to us keeping this topic within the bounds of AK's rules of decorum & civility.

 

[sheltie dave]

An Open Letter to Pandora, from 125 Concerned Musicians...
Thursday, November 15, 2012
by paul

The following is an open letter to Pandora, signed by 125 concerned musicians. It has just been posted and signed.


A Musicians' Perspective on Pandora.



We are big fans of Pandora. That's why we helped give the company a discount on rates for the past decade.

Pandora is now enjoying phenomenal success as a Wall Street company. Skyrocketing growth in revenues and users. We celebrate that. At the same time, the music community is just now beginning to gain its footing in the new digital world.

Pandora's principal asset is the music.

Why is the company asking Congress once again to step in and gut the royalties that thousands of musicians rely upon? That's not fair, and that's not how partners work together.

Congress has many pressing issues to consider, but this is not one of them. Let's work this out as partners and continue to bring fans the great musical experience they rightly expect.

Signed,

Bryan Adams, Alabama, Greg Allman, Steve Angello, Rodney Atkins, Sara Bareilles, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Clint Black, Jack Blades, Blondie, Jonatha Brooke, Jackson Browne, Jimmy Buffett, Oteil Burbridge, The Cab, Colbie Caillat, Camper Van Beethoven, CoCo Carmel, George Clinton, Keyshia Cole, Common, Easton Corbin, Cowboy Mouth, Cracker, Randy Crawford, Robert Cray, David Crosby, Joel Crouse, Sheryl Crow, Drew Davis, Taylor Dayne, Dead Kennedys, Raheem DeVaughn, The Doors, Down, The Dream, Vikter Duplaix, Missy Elliott, Lupe Fiasco, The 5th Dimension, Flyleaf, John Fogerty, Guy Forsyth, The Game, Vince Gill, David Gilmour, Genevieve Goings, Martha Reeves, Rihanna, Eric Roberson, Darius Rucker, Rush, Bobby Rush, Joe Sample, David Sanborn, Skid Row, Michael W. Smith, Britney Spears, Dave Stewart, Survivor, T.I., Susan Tedeschi, Robin Thicke, George Thorogood, Toto, Butch Trucks, Derek Trucks, Josh Turner, Frankie Valli and Bob Gaudio (The 4 Seasons), Dionne Warwick, Roger Waters, Bobby Whitlock, Whodini, Chuck Wicks, Otis Williams (The Temptations), Ann and Nancy Wilson (Heart), BrianWilson, BeBeWinans, Zac Brown Band, Andy Grammer, Amy Grant, CeeLo Green, Gyptian, Warren Haynes, Don Henley, Hootie and The Blowfish, Mallary Hope, Bruce Hornsby, Mick Hucknall (Simply Red), The J.Geils Band, Jaimoe, The Jazz Crusaders, Billy Joel, John Paul Jones, Mick Jones (Foreigner), Journey, Jim Kerr and Charlie Burchill (Simple Minds), KISS, Jana Kramer, Ludacris, Maroon 5, Nick Mason, Duff McKagan, Megadeth, Janelle Monae, Alissa Moreno, Jason Mraz, Nas, Graham Nash, Ne-Yo, Stevie Nicks, Night Ranger, Ted Nugent, Owl City, Christina Perri, Katy Perry, Pink Floyd, Robert Plant, John Pointer, The Pointer Sisters, Primus, Marc Quinones, Joel Rafael, Trisha Yearwood, Bonnie Raitt.

For every band worth hundreds of millions, there are a thousand bands that have a net worth of ...nothing. Everyone who has partied to bands on the local club circuit, helped roadie up and coming bands out of three hundred seat gigs, knows they dream of one day hitting it big, like Pink Floyd. If no one stands up for royalty rights now, the game will be over. The industry never, ever sides with musicians.

It seems like a battle of big money vs. big money, but you could put Robert Johnson and Oliver Sain writing this letter, and no one would care two figs about it. Fair is fair, whether the musicians are represented by figureheads worth millions, or destitute musicians.

Labor negotiations are always convulated, but this totally is a case where the industry, (or in this case Pandora) would have zero reason to exist if not for the musicians whose property rights they are attempting to undercut. In Pink Floyd's case, I can readily understand why they not want three decades of sustained brilliant artistic output that has provided them a livelihood, to be dramatically reduced in value by a legislative commerce act, without their input into the affair.

 

[RamblinE]

This is funny coming off last week when Pink Floyd released their entire collection to US Spotify.

wot Pink Floyd?

What HVHiFI said +1.

You can't complain about one free/paid subscription service right after you've just released your entire catalog on another...

 

[JohnVF]

Spotify isn't fighting for congressional intervention towards screwing artists

 

[+48V]

......................
Labor negotiations are always convulated, but this totally is a case where the industry, (or in this case Pandora) would have zero reason to exist if not for the musicians whose property rights they are attempting to undercut. In Pink Floyd's case, I can readily understand why they not want three decades of sustained brilliant artistic output that has provided them a livelihood, to be dramatically reduced in value by a legislative commerce act, without their input into the affair.

Pandora (along with a multitude of other independent internet radio stations) is simply asking for parity in the rate setting process.

Just because their "signal” emanates via the internet instead of a tower, satellite, or piece of coax they pay a significantly higher “digital tax” than the other guys. That's not fair.

If the playing field was level chances are we wouldn’t be having this particular debate

 

[matteos]

Pandora is asking for government intervention in a private market dispute. If they want to pay Pink Floyd less they should negotiate with Pink Floyd, if Pink Floyd and all the other artists say go jump off a bridge then they need to come up with a newer and better business model.

Netflix and Hulu don't have every film or TV show available to stream. They negotiate with the people who hold the rights.

I know that music and film are treated differently due to historic reasons but Honestly there needs to be new legislation. Musicians need to be able to opt out of streaming services if they want (is this even an option?)

 

[JohnVF]

When I can type an artists name into my FM tuner and have it spit out a playlist of that artists music, and only that artist, I will consider FM and Pandora the same thing. The listening habits are different. Pandora is not FM.