Pioneer, Sanaui or Harman Kardon

[Mark Davis]

What would you say would be the better choice.

HARMAN/KARDON STEREO RECEIVER, MODEL# 430 Twin

PIONEER STEREO RECEIVER MODEL SX-626

SANSUI STEREO MODEL 800.

 

[Blue Shadow]

The Pioneer is picked by Pioneer fans.
The Sansui is liked by a number of folks (the brand, overall not this particular unit, exactly) and Sansui fans

Thaer are lots of people that like the HK and this one the first in the line with dual power supplies (two transformers) is a very nice sounding unit.

The HK is the one in this group. And it is the Most Powerful but not by much on specs alone.

 

[buttahman]

If they are in roughly equal cosmetic and electrical condition I would have to go with the HK. Yes, the Pioneer is better built and has more connects, including pre out main ins. But the HK's twin power construction and separate power and speaker buttons carry the day IMO. I must admit I am biased as I have the 430, but I have experienced Pio and Sansui in the same room and with the same speakers and it more than held it's own.

I'm not familiar with the 800 but I suspect it is older than both of the others.

 

[Stillhouse]

I had a chance to buy a 430 a few years ago for cheap and kinda wish I had. Love my SX-990, but those HK twins are nice.

 

[superdog]

I've been through a lot of vintage gear but other than a hk model 29 IIRC I have come across no hk gear in the wild.

 

[quiet]

I sold my 626 and will keep the my 430.
I don't know the 800.

 

[Super Noob]

Have may quality receivers... and my Sansui 800 is just absolutely mind blowing.

It is the only receiver I have under 50 WPC... I rebuilt it and cannot say enough good things about it. Always wanted to try out a twin HK.

Here is a feel what I listen to = Realistic STA-2100 & STA-2000, Marantz 2325, Sansui G7500, Pioneer SX-850, Pioneer SX-750.

 

[dlucy]

What would you say would be the better choice.

HARMAN/KARDON STEREO RECEIVER, MODEL# 430 Twin

PIONEER STEREO RECEIVER MODEL SX-626

SANSUI STEREO MODEL 800.

The Pioneer SX-626 has a very "warm" sound due to its cap-coupled output design. It's relatively easy to recap (and replace the few noisy-by-now transistors). It is a classic and many people love these receivers.

The hk 430 is the lower end of the "twin powered" series which came right after the very popular 330A-330B-330C series. The hk 430's twin power supplies should give it some better performance (power wise and in dynamics) than the 330 series. The 430 is also direct-coupled like the 330C, which means it'll sounds a bit more neutral when compared to the cap-coupled output design of the 330A and 330B. The whole twin series is adored for its looks and performance.

I'd love to say something smart and factual-sounding about the Sansui 800, but I've never worked on or heard one of them, so I can't.

Reading the thread it sounds like you've already made your decision, cool enough. For anyone doing a bit of searching, just my $0.02 on the Pioneer and HK.

 

[ChicagoTom]

Wow, honestly all three of these are winners. I've owned a Sansui 800 and an H/K 730 (more powerful than the 430, but similar sound).

IMO, the amp portion of the 430 is terrific, but the preamp is not so good. Others will say the same about the H/K if you do some digging. The Sansui 800 on the other hand, has an EXCELLENT amp and a very good preamp. My vinyl sounded WAY better on my Sansui 800 than on my H/K 730, both of which were all-original and in great condition. So I'd pick the 800 in a heartbeat. I've onwed more than 30 vintage receivers over the past 5 years or so, and the Sansui 800 is at or very near the top of that list, and certainly the best lower-powered unit I've ever heard.

The SX-626 also has an excellent reputation. Some Pioneers of the eras had dumb proprietary speaker connectors, so if you're still considering it, check that issue out.

 

[dlucy]

The SX-626 also has an excellent reputation. Some Pioneers of the eras had dumb proprietary speaker connectors, so if you're still considering it, check that issue out.

THAT is definitely a big issue for consideration. It only matters when you're plugging in the speakers and setting up your system, but those connectors are a stumbling point if you haven't dealt with them before.

 

[quiet]

Goof proof

 

[Super Noob]

I've onwed more than 30 vintage receivers over the past 5 years or so, and the Sansui 800 is at or very near the top of that list, and certainly the best lower-powered unit I've ever heard.

Windy City Tom = That Baby Sanusi 800 is under the radar for sure. I bought my for almost nothing and was mint. It had some crackle sound present.

It was my first rebuild / cutting teeth receiver. Once finished I knew there was something special. The noise in the end was tied to the flakey trim pots. Fresh caps and some new transistors = keeper.

Sansui 800 = Cap Coupled.

 

[quiet]

I don't have the 800 but do have the 5000A. It's a very good unit with lots of punch but that punch is turning out to be color added. The 626 I had was warm and woolly, even more color added. My 430 is much better than the 626, smooth with more power, less color. Skip the 626. I will keep the 5000A and 430.
I have many that are better than these three.

 

[slev]

I don't have the 800 but do have the 5000A. It's a very good unit with lots of punch but that punch is turning out to be color added. The 626 I had was warm and woolly, even more color added. My 430 is much better than the 626, smooth with more power, less color. Skip the 626. I will keep the 5000A and 430.
I have many that are better than these three.

Hi Quiet - Do you have a few brands/models that you suggest that pull ahead of the 430? I was about set to get a 430 or Sansui 2000X or 6/7/8, but I'd love to hear your preferred models. Thanks - Michael

 

[quiet]

Of the ones I have.
Sherwood S-8900A (least pretentious, great sound, good power, I think one of Sherwood's best)
Sony STR-6065 (maybe the best all around)
JVC vr-5551 (biggest good surprise)
Kenwood TK-140X (best sound!!!) Ding! Ding! Ding!
Rotel RX-800 (excellent unknown and overlooked unit)
HeathKit AR-1500 (most under rated by factory, great build, great sound)
Magnavox 1500 (best hardware, most over built, smooth powerful sound)
Sansui 5000a and 2000a (most dynamic, bottom to top) I think you would like it. I do.
Marantz 2226 (as expected)
Lafayette LR-3500 (best bang for the buck!!!)
Pioneer SX-1000TW and SX-780. (typical good Pioneer)
Realistic STR-120b (very good unit, nothing to gripe about, plenty good sound)
Yamaha CR-600 (a bit sterile with some speakers but good strong sound none the less, speaker sensitive)
I like the Harman 430 and 930 but find them to have a thick slow sound. Good for horn speakers. They are not prone to distortion under load. That rich bottom end holds up very well. But I'm not a big fan.

 

[Blue Shadow]

Of the ones I have...

Keep in mind that Quiet is a user not a rebuilder or a buyer of rebuilt and all his units are being compared as used units available on the market today, no matter their age. I'm sure he looks for good condition. I do not know how that will affect sonics of the units as he describes them.

 

[dlucy]

Hi Quiet - Do you have a few brands/models that you suggest that pull ahead of the 430? I was about set to get a 430 or Sansui 2000X or 6/7/8, but I'd love to hear your preferred models. Thanks - Michael

Not sure if this changes anything for you, but a HK 430 twin powered receiver is actually a HK 330C plus separate power supplies for each channel.

The twin power supply gives better channel separation (so they say) and better dynamics (again, this is not my firsthand experience on how they sound. I can only speak to the schematic and internals parts).

 

[quiet]

YES, age has proven to have a BIG effect on the sonics of a unit. Lots of units coming and going. After the same unit comes through several times I begin to get an idea of what it was when new. If a unit that presents with less than average performance comes in, but test good, I keep it till a better example of the same shows up to compare and verify. When you have 24 units plugged into the comparator it's easy to spot a faulty unit. LOTS of discarded units go down the road. The scope helps root out a dud when it sounds suspect. But doesn't tell what the sound will be when it "shows" as good. A faulty unit can sometimes still maintain it's sound signature, till it blows.
I can't tell what model a unit is by listening to it blind. But some times the brand. Most of the time I can tell if it's direct coupled, cap coupled, what generation if prior to 1980 or whatever.
Great hobby. No rabbit holes. Whatever shows up get's played with.

 

[quiet]

Not sure if this changes anything for you, but a HK 430 twin powered receiver is actually a HK 330C plus separate power supplies for each channel.

The twin power supply gives better channel separation (so they say) and better dynamics (again, this is not my firsthand experience on how they sound. I can only speak to the schematic and internals parts).

I think the 630, 930, 430 730 twin power units DO hold up better on channel separation. And the more the demand and lower the hz the more it shows.
I don't hear the premium dynamics part though. Buy very smooth for sure.

 

[slev]

Of the ones I have.
Sherwood S-8900A (least pretentious, great sound, good power, I think one of Sherwood's best)
Sony STR-6065 (maybe the best all around)
JVC vr-5551 (biggest good surprise)
Kenwood TK-140X (best sound!!!) Ding! Ding! Ding!
Rotel RX-800 (excellent unknown and overlooked unit)
HeathKit AR-1500 (most under rated by factory, great build, great sound)
Magnavox 1500 (best hardware, most over built, smooth powerful sound)
Sansui 5000a and 2000a (most dynamic, bottom to top) I think you would like it. I do.
Marantz 2226 (as expected)
Lafayette LR-3500 (best bang for the buck!!!)
Pioneer SX-1000TW and SX-780. (typical good Pioneer)
Realistic STR-120b (very good unit, nothing to gripe about, plenty good sound)
Yamaha CR-600 (a bit sterile with some speakers but good strong sound none the less, speaker sensitive)
I like the Harman 430 and 930 but find them to have a thick slow sound. Good for horn speakers. They are not prone to distortion under load. That rich bottom end holds up very well. But I'm not a big fan.

Thanks for the very detailed reply - lots to chew on...