I don't recall the model, but pretty sure it was the 354. I think.
As my sister would say, "I can't remember. I've slept since then."
Prices.... Going Up!!!
- Thread starter musichal
- Start date
As my sister would say, "I can't remember. I've slept since then."
And history repeats itself.
Mopeds were a big thing during the oil crisis in the '70's. (no motorcycle license required)
Sears even sold them.
A HS kid I work with has a cool moped...actually a well-used mountain bike with a motor! He already had the bike and bought the motor kit on the 'bay...motor, gas tank, big sprocket for the rear and the necessary controls all included. $110. He's a happy camper
spicer
Lunatic Member
People should war game this, all of it, nothing by accident.
YY1
Addicted Member
Lots of 4 cyl low geared Jeeps actually get markedly better MPG in city driving than at highway speeds.
Mystic
We're all born mad
Consequences of Prices Going Up:
Rising asking --and presumably selling -- prices of new and used automobiles and light trucks, since before the pandemic phenomenon set in, has taken on toll of the rate of purchase of new and used vehicles. Accoding to the Standard & Poor Global Mobility report released this week, the average age of all cars and light trucks in operation thus far in 2022 rose to a new record of 12.2 years:
Average Age of Automobiles & Light Trucks in Operation, 1974 - April 2022
Source: S&P Mobility Report 2022
As 12.2 years includes automobiles and trucks, what are the average ages, respectively, of automobiles only and trucks only in operation as of this point in 2022?
- Average age of automobiles in operation @ 2022: 11.6 years
- Average age of light trucks in operation @ 2022: 13.1 years
So what happened re: the great upward surge in new vehicle sales since 2019?
There was no great upward surge.
There has been, in fact, a marked decline in sales of new vehicles since 2019.
According to data collected by the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (a research center within the U.S. Department of Commerce), the sales level of new vehicles peaked in 2016, held more or less steady in 2017-2019, then plunged in 2020 to level of sales not seen since the late 1970s, where it has remained through December 2021:
U.S. New Vehicle Sales (millions of vehicles) 1977-2021
Source: U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
Consequence of Longer Operation: Reduction in Scrappage
According to the same S&P Mobility report, the number of vehicles that were scrapped fell to a little over 11 million vehicles, amounting to a scrappage rate of 4.2% of total VIO, the lowest scrappage rate in two decades. To contrast: in 2020, approximately 15 million vehicles were scrapped, i.e., a scrappage rate of 5.6%.
Rising asking --and presumably selling -- prices of new and used automobiles and light trucks, since before the pandemic phenomenon set in, has taken on toll of the rate of purchase of new and used vehicles. Accoding to the Standard & Poor Global Mobility report released this week, the average age of all cars and light trucks in operation thus far in 2022 rose to a new record of 12.2 years:
Average Age of Automobiles & Light Trucks in Operation, 1974 - April 2022
Source: S&P Mobility Report 2022
As 12.2 years includes automobiles and trucks, what are the average ages, respectively, of automobiles only and trucks only in operation as of this point in 2022?
- Average age of automobiles in operation @ 2022: 11.6 years
- Average age of light trucks in operation @ 2022: 13.1 years
So what happened re: the great upward surge in new vehicle sales since 2019?
There was no great upward surge.
There has been, in fact, a marked decline in sales of new vehicles since 2019.
According to data collected by the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (a research center within the U.S. Department of Commerce), the sales level of new vehicles peaked in 2016, held more or less steady in 2017-2019, then plunged in 2020 to level of sales not seen since the late 1970s, where it has remained through December 2021:
U.S. New Vehicle Sales (millions of vehicles) 1977-2021
Source: U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
Consequence of Longer Operation: Reduction in Scrappage
According to the same S&P Mobility report, the number of vehicles that were scrapped fell to a little over 11 million vehicles, amounting to a scrappage rate of 4.2% of total VIO, the lowest scrappage rate in two decades. To contrast: in 2020, approximately 15 million vehicles were scrapped, i.e., a scrappage rate of 5.6%.
Spitfirejoe
Cheap Audio Aficionado
I'm not an econ student, so maybe this isn't surprising to others. I just saw the term "Demand Destruction", and knew immediately what it SHOULD mean. Had to double check by reading the article, but I was right. Prices for gas are getting high enough that people are changing their plans/habits resulting in lower demand. At least we know there is a ceiling to what people will pay when they have a choice. I was beginning to think there was none. I'm definitely rethinking summer travel plans. Wanted to drive out to the Del-Mar-Va area for a few weeks, but that's a LONG trip from here. Hmm... maybe I'll just take the Mazda 6 instead of my Ridgeline...
https://markets.businessinsider.com...us-demand-destruction-crude-oil-prices-2022-5
https://markets.businessinsider.com...us-demand-destruction-crude-oil-prices-2022-5
petes'picks
Super Member
I will wait for a reasonable explanation as to why my goto $1 tooth brush is now $3.50. No one will be able to come up with the right answer unless it includes opportunistic PRICE GOUGING. Sure, gas prices have doubled but that accounts for less than half the cost to produce and deliver a consumable item. Even if everyones salary in the supply chain has doubled (it hasnt) and gas doubled my toothbrush should only be about $2.25 right now.
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invaderzim
Super Member
New cars are still in short supply due to various shortages, including, but not limited to, the chip shortage. There is a Honda dealership I drive by that now usually only has between 4 and 12 total cars on their entire new and used lot. I'm seeing new cars with $5,000 to $10,000 regularly added to the sticker price because demand is so much higher than supply.
Rental car companies are actually buying used cars to add to their fleets because they can't get new cars. They used to flood the market with low mileage used cars that helped push prices down. They have to have cars to rent so they are driving the used prices up by paying whatever they have to. The large used car chains are bidding against them on those same used cars because they have to have something for their lots. It isn't unheard of for a couple year old used car to pull in more than it cost new at this point.
Used cars that were $18,000 before the pandemic are now $26,000 to $28,000.
The added 'dealer markup' of 5 to 10K seem terrible, but in the dealerships defense, they once were able to sell 200 cars a month at minimal profit and now have to try to make the same amount of money on 25-50 cars. And if they sold them at MSRP they'd be out of cars in less than a week and would be just sitting there with an empty lot and customers that were angry that they had nothing to sell them.
I don't know if that is the same case with the toothbrush or not. I guess if at every stage there has been an increase it will all add up. From each raw material to the production and even the packaging. And if they have a quarter of the production they had two years ago then they'd have to make more on each one they produce.
I'm sure that plenty of places are price gouging just because they can; but at the same time we had it good for a long time where companies would compete to see who could make the least money selling us things, because there were so many things and limited demand.
Grocery shopping this weekend I saw watermelons and corn at twice what they cost last year. Clearly some things are running way above the 'inflation rate'.
Rental car companies are actually buying used cars to add to their fleets because they can't get new cars. They used to flood the market with low mileage used cars that helped push prices down. They have to have cars to rent so they are driving the used prices up by paying whatever they have to. The large used car chains are bidding against them on those same used cars because they have to have something for their lots. It isn't unheard of for a couple year old used car to pull in more than it cost new at this point.
Used cars that were $18,000 before the pandemic are now $26,000 to $28,000.
The added 'dealer markup' of 5 to 10K seem terrible, but in the dealerships defense, they once were able to sell 200 cars a month at minimal profit and now have to try to make the same amount of money on 25-50 cars. And if they sold them at MSRP they'd be out of cars in less than a week and would be just sitting there with an empty lot and customers that were angry that they had nothing to sell them.
I don't know if that is the same case with the toothbrush or not. I guess if at every stage there has been an increase it will all add up. From each raw material to the production and even the packaging. And if they have a quarter of the production they had two years ago then they'd have to make more on each one they produce.
I'm sure that plenty of places are price gouging just because they can; but at the same time we had it good for a long time where companies would compete to see who could make the least money selling us things, because there were so many things and limited demand.
Grocery shopping this weekend I saw watermelons and corn at twice what they cost last year. Clearly some things are running way above the 'inflation rate'.
Jimbo40
Super Member
17 years from now? At this rate that will be next year at this time.
donprice
Wound up workin' at a gas station....
No direct collusion required - they have signs
. Each morning the station on one side of the street calls the "war room" of the distributor (probably not the offices of the corporate brand flag since in many US markets the major oil companies have divested from retail) and reports what the neighbors are selling for. The war room participants collect intel across the territory and then decide where to move prices on a nearly station by station basis. Ideally, they want to raise prices to match the competitor if they go up first. They really hate it when the rack (wholesale) price drops and one of the neighbors cuts the street price quickly rather than holding the line and taking a few extra cents of profit as long as possible.
Not really price fixing, just market pricing and a very common site here. IDK about Canada, but here a lot of stations are individual operators who determine their prices based on local competition. Years ago at Costco our gas guys had to comp shop 5 stations locally 3x daily and key the prices into a corporate database for our buyers to make pricing decisions from. Now they use a 3rd party service or GasBuddy for all I know.
We also had comp shoppers checking prices on a lot of goods inside the building too; in retail and a lot of businesses, one needs to know what the competition is doing. Not collusion, just homework.
We also had comp shoppers checking prices on a lot of goods inside the building too; in retail and a lot of businesses, one needs to know what the competition is doing. Not collusion, just homework.
Nope they devide and share without any competition the traffic on BOTH sides of the street by fixing exactly the same price on both sides of the street. Which is a felony if can be proven! So nobody turns from one side of the street to the other side direction of the street to get cheaper gas, course there is none due to this to $0.001 exact the sane price. So these two corporation or two pump owners whatever is going on, try to convince me that they have exact the same overhead and whole sale gas price (supply to them?)
Chevron and Petro Canada are Canadian gov. owned by the way!
And note: it doesn't make any difference if it's a group or just two individuals / pump owners in one street if indeed price fixing occurs. But, that's not so relevant course it happens all over town between Petro Canada and Chevron. I'm no Shell fan, at the contrary, but they don't take part in it over here at least. And there gas is more then 9 cents a litre cheaper one street further!?!
And I don't own a car, so it doesn't affect me what so ever! But it's stupid and to obvious! And it makes a nice post
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It's not price fixing unless there is some sort of communication between the sellers. Looking out the window and changing your price because you see the guy across the street's sign indicates he has doesn't cut it. And cost really has little in the real world of making a sale if you want to move product and the other guy is selling it cheaper; you either sell it for less and move some goods or keep it higher ans watch sales, and cash flow/income, plummet.
Here in the US this is what is involved..."US antitrust laws make price fixing “per-se” illegal. – This means that to prove that a firm is guilty of price fixing, it suffices to prove that it met with some of its competitors, and agreed on the prices they will charge (without any inquiry into the actual anti-competitive effects of the agreement)." No meeting, no collusion, no price fixing.
Here in the US this is what is involved..."US antitrust laws make price fixing “per-se” illegal. – This means that to prove that a firm is guilty of price fixing, it suffices to prove that it met with some of its competitors, and agreed on the prices they will charge (without any inquiry into the actual anti-competitive effects of the agreement)." No meeting, no collusion, no price fixing.
grillebilly
Empty Head
Yeah I think price fixing requires collusion between competing businesses. The long arm of the law tends to ignore it unless the participants have a monopoly on the product or service.
At the beginning of the same street another gas station Esso. Two cents cheaper then the Chevron and Petro Canada 'pumps' in same street.
Anyways, thought show you the Vancouver BC gas prices in real time photos.
Note: the Chevron and Petro Canada in former post still have the same higher price per litre.
Further note: Gas or gas or crude price fixing is not that oncommon in 'energie land'.
Most obvious price fixing kartel example we all know and is designated as a criminal syndicate for that reason alone already in most jurisdictions around the world; is known as: OPEC.
Anyways, thought show you the Vancouver BC gas prices in real time photos.
Note: the Chevron and Petro Canada in former post still have the same higher price per litre.
Further note: Gas or gas or crude price fixing is not that oncommon in 'energie land'.
Most obvious price fixing kartel example we all know and is designated as a criminal syndicate for that reason alone already in most jurisdictions around the world; is known as: OPEC.
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Chevron on a corner of again Grandview Highway, and Skeena Street. Sane gas price (shown $216,9 CAD per litre). Regular gas price, not the Diesel Price.
If it's not prove fixing it must be 'communism'
Those were my fuel price per 'gallon' in litre contributions. Back to audio!
If it's not prove fixing it must be 'communism'
Those were my fuel price per 'gallon' in litre contributions. Back to audio!
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