Record clamps: Ok, consider me converted.
- Thread starter jgordon
- Start date
perryinva
IS it vintage????
I (rarely, as it really needs to be wall mounted to eliminated football vibration effects) use a restored HK T60, which has a belt drive, tuned 3 point suspension designed (must use) for the weight that came with the TT. I agree it does seem platter mat and suspension dependent. The T60 uses a rock hard sound deadening mat, with virtually no grip on the record. When I use the clamp on my YP-D8, with various mats, I notice no discernible difference while on the T60 it is very apparent.
Russellc
Addicted Member
Similar results here. My table has used the Teres screw on clamp until recently when it was replaced by a Bren 1.....works just as well and a lot faster without the screwing and unscrewing between each play.
The Teres only contacted the album around the perimeter of the clamp's base. A small spacer went on the spindel before the album. The combination is supposed to sort of force the records edge flat to the platter. Didnt seem to work so well as the Bren 1 and the Merrill/Scillia Perimeter clamp does however.
Like you, I have found the results of clamps in general to be positive, but more subtle like you said. Maybe its just the combination with the Merrill/Scillia Platter system, but the addition of the perimeter clamp, periphery clamp or whatever really did make a larger difference than the clamp alone, I was surprised at that improvement. Its alittle steep at 450.00, but Vinylnirvana has put a few on Ebay from time to time at 199.99. In fact they had a few just recently. Cant recommend it enough, at least in combination with their platter system.
Russellc
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Russellc
Addicted Member
Agreed as to the weight of the device, 2 lbs is an awful lot! Both of the two I have had put together wouldnt even come close to 2 lbs! The weight and periphery clamp I use were also recommended by the manufacturer of the subchassis which also has the bearing fitted to it, which of course, they also made. Seems odd that Linn would make something less robust? But, they may be following another route where they dont have a need for it? Another poster said something about the subjective nature of all this, much agreed!
Russellc
Russellc
Addicted Member
Similar observations here, the Merrill/Scillia platter system is topped by a thin lead mat, and without something the album can easily "lose traction" especially when cleaning!
Russellc
here's the pickering red button clamp on my 3 point suspended for those interested trying one. They do look good when spinning !
Similar to your Pickering mine is a Qysonic Research from Fullerton, CA (long defunct). I think I bought it in the late 70's. I'm going to start using it again for 2 reasons...
1. Very little inpact on TT springs when installing.
2. Does a great job of of attenuating higher frequencies specifically when music is being played on the loud side. Yes it sounds better.
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MWalt
Super Member
Instead of a weight or a clamp try this: http://www.trans-fi.com/resomat.htm
My TT is designed to work with the clamp that came with it. I have a Reso Mat and like it better. I know, goes against traditional thought, but so have a lot of other successful ventures.
My TT is designed to work with the clamp that came with it. I have a Reso Mat and like it better. I know, goes against traditional thought, but so have a lot of other successful ventures.
jgordon
Super Member
The deuce is restored and mcshaned. Had the work done by Don Sachs. Messed around with a few guys working on it, then had enough issues with that work that I simply decided to send it to the best guy I could find. Sounds fantastic now.
As far as the Resomat, that's actually very similar to a platter mat that I had put together a while back. Eliminated the plastic platter, but did use five cork dots to support the disc. Felt that there was significant improvement over the stock felt mat. I've been trying to figure out a way to do a direct test between the cork dots / resomat approach and the felt mat / clamp approach. Haven't found one yet, as I stuck the dots directly to the platter.
As far as the Resomat, that's actually very similar to a platter mat that I had put together a while back. Eliminated the plastic platter, but did use five cork dots to support the disc. Felt that there was significant improvement over the stock felt mat. I've been trying to figure out a way to do a direct test between the cork dots / resomat approach and the felt mat / clamp approach. Haven't found one yet, as I stuck the dots directly to the platter.
MWalt
Super Member
When I first read about this platter mat, I thought the same thing. But, I was intrigued and figured that for around $50 it was worth a try. So I bought one and like it. I tried with a clamp and without a clamp on my Basis turntable. Here is an excerpt from the manufacturer:
Let me start by dispelling a few myths about clamping:
First, a clamp is needed to flatten out warps. Well, it may flatten mild warps at the center of the record, but the outside will still be wavy unless you also use a periphery clamp. What actually happens in practice is you get voids under the vinyl, so some parts of the record are in contact with the platter, other are not. In any case, forcing a warped record flat is bound to strain & distort the shape of the grooves so you will get an inconsistency across the record. I find most good setups will play moderately warped records with no problem.
Second, clamping is necessary for good bass. For those that may say clamping a record improves bass, I say think again. Bass is more bloated so may appear increased. Again, all you are hearing with a clamp is colouration & reflections.
Third, a clamp is necessary to prevent record slippage. I had set up a measuring device to test this theory, played a whole record side @ 2g with a Paratrace stylus (much drag) to find to my surprise no movement occurred.
Enter the Reso-Mat. The idea with this mat is to have absolutely no influence on the record. It sits on cones with minimal contact with no clamping. Vibrations from the stylus are free to dissipate in the open air with no reflections. There is nothing to dampen the record either.
The net result is a super clear dynamic portrayal of the music with extreme detail retrieval. Treble that seemed harsh or sibilant on some recordings is greatly tamed. Modern recordings done in the digital domain are rendered listenable....& I have a pile of those which I am now rediscovering! Bass becomes cleaner & more distinct. If a deep bass note is present, and your system is capable of producing deep bass, the floors will still shake.
Another effect of this mat is to increase the noise floor. Not only are the cones stopping reflections from the record, but also minimising noises from the environment & drive mechanism of the turntable, be it motor or bearing, from getting through to the stylus. Less external noise has the effect of opening & widening the soundstage.
I have to say this mat represents a good time spent in R & D with different cone materials. Wood was rejected, for instance, as the bass disappeared! The material used for the cones gave the best results over a wide range of materials. The mat has been extensively tried in the field, & all testers have rejected their traditional rubber/acrylic/cork/whatever mats & clamp is favour of the Reso-Mat.
marc mc
Super Member
I had someone tell me about the Reso-mat a few months back. It is actually a very old idea with the mitchell skeleton probable being the most known table to employ it. I have a buddy that runs that table.
Ed Meitner wrote a series of articles over 20 years ago that are pretty much word for word as the post above and did the high fi mag tour with his AT-1 platterless table. I took a Thorens 318 and turned it into a platterless version after reading the Meitner articles, I took a ton of flack for even suggesting platterless back then. I shocked a few people with the music that table could make sitting on a Sound Orginisation stand. A couple years ago i rebuilt that table and currently us it as a fully suspensionless platterless table with and Alphason arm and a Clearaudio Aurum Beta S cart. In that case with no platter at all i use a massive weight to replace the platters inertia. My Lenco has the cork pods and a light weight.
Marc mc
Ed Meitner wrote a series of articles over 20 years ago that are pretty much word for word as the post above and did the high fi mag tour with his AT-1 platterless table. I took a Thorens 318 and turned it into a platterless version after reading the Meitner articles, I took a ton of flack for even suggesting platterless back then. I shocked a few people with the music that table could make sitting on a Sound Orginisation stand. A couple years ago i rebuilt that table and currently us it as a fully suspensionless platterless table with and Alphason arm and a Clearaudio Aurum Beta S cart. In that case with no platter at all i use a massive weight to replace the platters inertia. My Lenco has the cork pods and a light weight.
Marc mc
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marc mc
Super Member
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Apoplectic
Well-Known Member
About how much would one of those set you back? How do moderately warped records play on it? It seems like they would have a fair chance of slipping on those cones.
Greyson
Super Member
They're sold here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Trans..._HomeAudioHiFi_Turntables&hash=item2a160fcabd
I've looked at them before but I don't know which camp I fit in to. Less surface contact or more surface contact, there are arguements for both sides. I've just stuck to my stock mat and Michell clamp.
I've looked at them before but I don't know which camp I fit in to. Less surface contact or more surface contact, there are arguements for both sides. I've just stuck to my stock mat and Michell clamp.
MWalt
Super Member
I think I only paid 50 or 60 bucks. Warped records DO pose a problem. Personally, I won't even play a warped record anymore.
Pio1980
AK Member
Compare the audible sound coming off the disc with no amplification with this device and with the standard full-contact/clamped record. The better damped disc should be quieter without 'peakiness' to the sound. The peakiness will be (a) resonance mode(s).