Rek-O-Kut Rondine Jr. L-37 Restoration Begins.

[bhundu]

Hmm. I only mentioned dampening the platter as that was the main noise I was getting from the idler wheel on it. It had an audible knock and whir. It was isolated down to this wheel/platter cause by process of elimination. Unfortunately I can't say whether the idler sand-down or the platter dampening was the better. I didn't test in between.

Remind me if I don't post an image of the cork dampenened platter on the BSR. All the time while working on it, I was thinking "why am I wasting my time on this". It was a very rewarding experience in the end and I got a chance to apply previously learned techniques to a new table without any internet instruction.

That last sentance is a lie. There was a decent basic BSR service vid posted on youtube by an Aussie guy. Thanks Aussie Mate!

The bearing lubricant is something I'd like to talk about.

I've read that the reason for an idlers attack is a powerful motor and a slightly resistant bearing (grease). The argument was explained by a car being towed with the brake slightly on, verus a car being towed with no brake (belt drive). On a belt drive the front car travells at the same speed, but as the hills and valleys approach there is taughtness and loosenes on the towing rope. One sitting in the towed car may experience a bit for lurching and stalling while going down the hills and up the valleys.

The good idlers have one thing going for them. A massive torquey motor. Suppossedly the slight drag using grease on the bearing keeps that pulling rope tight all through the mountain range, and gets that up front attack.

Thoughts?

 

[Brett a]

The good idlers have one thing going for them. A massive torquey motor. Suppossedly the slight drag using grease on the bearing keeps that pulling rope tight all through the mountain range, and gets that up front attack.

Thoughts?

I like it!!! makes sense to me. And I don't see how a good, clean grease would adversely affect the noise floor or the platter speed--not with this "washing machine" motor.

I'll give that a try sometime. I have a tub of white lithium bearing grease on hand (not literally). I suppose that'd work for such an experiment.

Once i get the Denon mounted, I can rip some new reference tracks and go from there.

 

[bhundu]

Cheers Brett. I'll report on my findings too once I get around to it. My service kit should arrive any day now. Then to go to Lenco Heaven. I'll need to read through them again but I have a feeling one of the Lenco pages mentioned a combo of grease and oil in the bearing.

 

[CharlieWhite]

Try the 'Champion' motorcycle chain lube/grease out also and let me know what you think.

 

[Brett a]

So I've had a few days to spend with the DL-103 running through the Musical Fidelity V-LPS and I have to say....

...I'm pretty disappointed.

I didn't know what to expect from the Denon; i knew it unlikely to approach the AT OC9MLII, but it's hardly any better than the Shure M91ED running through the Art DJ.

I want to be clear that I knew going into this that the price tag was simply the cost of experiencing this cartridge; and for that reason, I can't feel like I wasted any money. I'm getting what I knew I was buying; an experience.

I find that the presentation is so forward and bold that it qualifies as in-your-face (no, the signal is not running too hot). There's hardly any depth to the soundstage (Is there even a soundstage? maybe they're just 2-dimentional images across a single plane).

And perhaps the worst part is the Denon really amplifies the ROK's motor noise to a level that I'm not sure I can abate (sending the first idler out for rebuilding today--one at a time, so i can still use it). I've already damped the inside of the platter and some of the transmission plates with Dynamat.

Now I know there are many factors here, which is to say I'm not pinning this all on the Denon. It may be that this arm and table are not a good platform for it. And maybe the cartridge will settle in and lay back a bit after some use.

but the high noise floor and lack of transparency have driven me back to listening to the Well Tempered. (again...people should have such troubles!!)

I have not abandoned hope however. Once i get a fresh idler on it, I can judge from there what makes sense to do next (if anything). the idler doesn't quiet it down sufficiently, I'll consider going back to the Shure MM and may not bother with the expense of a Baltic ply plinth.

The truly unfortunate part of all this is now I'm longing for a Thorens or Garrard (which I can't justify affording)

 

[dnewma04]

Brett, I've used DL103s a few times and unfortunately, that was generally the conlusion I had come to. I always considered it a very subpar MC cart and was surprised that so many liked it. I had heard it only on medium mass arms. When I tried it with a massive arm you saw in my pic, it was a different cart all together. I'm not sure if it was the oil damped arm or the massive weight of the arm, but the two sounded great together. I had my fingers crossed that the ROK arm would be a combo that might work as well together. Unfortunately, you seem to stuck in the same place that I was with the DL-103 in the past.

 

[Brett a]

I wonder if there's anything i can do w/ the ROK 120 arm to help the situation, like maybe stuff it with foam earplugs or add some kind of damping mass to the outside (heatshrink maybe)?

:scratch2:

 

[dnewma04]

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try?

 

[AvFan]

This is a very fun thread to read! You've got to love a turntable with a motor that size.

So I've had a few days to spend with the DL-103 running through the Musical Fidelity V-LPS and I have to say....

...I'm pretty disappointed.

Sorry to hear the DL-103/V-LPS combo was such a disappointment with the Rek-O-Kut arm. Have you had a chance to make sure what you've heard is not the V-LPS?

 

[Brett a]

This is a very fun thread to read! You've got to love a turntable with a motor that size.

Right on!!! Fun is what this is all about!

Sorry to hear the DL-103/V-LPS combo was such a disappointment with the Rek-O-Kut arm. Have you had a chance to make sure what you've heard is not the V-LPS?

I did run the Denon through my Jolida JD9 for a couple days while I was waiting for the Musical Fidelity to arrive. But it's hard for me to say for sure since a day had passed between listening to the Jolida and hooking up the MF. But I can say for certain that even through the Jolida, the Denon generally didn't approach the performance of the OC9. But as someone said in response to my inquiry at the time, it's not really fair to compare a $200 cartridge with a $600 one.

One easy thing for me to do when I get some time would be to swap the Musical Fidelity into the Jolida's place in my main rig. And when i have even more time, mount the Denon on the Well Tempered in place of the Audio Technica.

 

[Redboy]

Brett, can you get into that tonearm wand without butchering the thing? You might try pouring it full of sand for additional mass and damping.

I'd still like to see you put that WT tonearm on this table, too. I don't know what that would involve, but I think the fluid-damped arm would be a great match to the torquey, sorta clunky motor.

Getting those idlers refurbed will do good things, and I'll be interested to hear that report.

Finally, you could send the platter and bearing assembly to Jim Howard for a little love...

 

[Brett a]

Brett, can you get into that tonearm wand without butchering the thing? You might try pouring it full of sand for additional mass and damping.

I'd still like to see you put that WT tonearm on this table, too. I don't know what that would involve, but I think the fluid-damped arm would be a great match to the torquey, sorta clunky motor.

Getting those idlers refurbed will do good things, and I'll be interested to hear that report.

Finally, you could send the platter and bearing assembly to Jim Howard for a little love...

I haven't had the change to look at the ROK arm and see if it's possible to open the arm tube. If it is, it'd be fun to try different things inside it (hopefully without disturbing the tonearm wires)

It seems like the Well Tempered arm would be very easy to mount. It only requires one hole for the mast and one screw to attach the external block housing the RCAs onto the plinth.

 

[Brett a]

I wasn't thinking the main bearing was part of the noise floor issue, but this morning I noticed that it gets quieter when i clamp the record with a spindle clamp. ---that to me points to vibration radiating up from the main bearing shaft, no?..or maybe the LP is simply damping the surface of the platter?

 

[Redboy]

I wasn't thinking the main bearing was part of the noise floor issue, but this morning I noticed that it gets quieter when i clamp the record with a spindle clamp. ---that to me points to vibration radiating up from the main bearing shaft, no?

Sounds plausible. I can't see from the photos of your plinth if you have much room under the turntable plate, but if you could find a way to brace the bearing underneath, that might do good things for you. A lot of the Lenco guys are firmly "anchoring" the end of the bearing well to their plinths, and reporting good results. It makes good sense to me.

 

[madwing]

nate, by "anchoring" you mean they're creating an enclosed space below, so the bottom end of the thing is anchored in a bottom plate? or are they using a strip of wood/material with a hole drilled in it? or? any link to a thread at lenco heaven?

 

[Redboy]

nate, by "anchoring" you mean they're creating an enclosed space below, so the bottom end of the thing is anchored in a bottom plate? or are they using a strip of wood/material with a hole drilled in it? or? any link to a thread at lenco heaven?

I've seen it done both ways, but I can't find a photo of the most elegant solution that comes to mind, a cross-brace bar with an integral clamp that was affixed to the bottom-side of the plinth.

EDIT: Found a couple examples from our own mfrench, builder extraordinaire!
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=1087.msg47422#msg47422

 

[Brett a]

So I put the Pioneer arm back on last night mounted with the Shure M91ED with high compliance stylus (N91?).

It definitely quieted the noise floor to the point where the swoosh of the vinyl is louder than the motor. (what more could you ask for?) But the damn stylus picks up every little tick and pop on the LP!

So what i have here is two varieties of unsatisfactory. However, listening to the Shure again does show me that the ROK L-37 is quiet enough to enjoy w/o distraction. So going forward with a better MM cart (or a Jico for the M91) is a viable option.

I'm still going to try to make the Denon DL 103/ROK 120 arm combo work though.

 

[Brett a]

Ok, so things are looking up a bit. Last night I installed a set of gold-plated RCA jacks on the ROK 120's arm board, replacing the little PCB and basic cables it was running through.

I hooked it up with a set of shielded Tributaries digital/video cables and things have really spread out and opened up. The images are much clearer and the details and timbres are more available. Still no 3-dinentionality though.

This is what it looks like this morning:

This is the cable set I was using. They came off the Yamaha donor 'table pictured back in post #30

.


This beast really dwarfs not only the Well Tempered, but the formerly massive-looking Shanling amp. I think the next plinth I build will be smaller.

 

[Redboy]

Nah, don't go any smaller. You need a place to put your brush.

 

[Brett a]

Anyone care to tell me what songs they'd like me to needledrop with this badboy when I get a chance?

I created a poll here:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=415478