Show Us Your Sonys!!!
- Thread starter Yamaha B-2
- Start date
Has nothing to do with science. Only with the fact that all 30-year old gear has drifted. And the two Brian has have drifted whatever amount they have drifted. But the next two identical receivers will not have drifted the same amount and/or direction and may, as a result, produce a totally different sound. No one knows and each will be different. That is why there is so much variability between the tuners everyone considers 'high-end' on the FM Tuner Forum. Some of the same model stock tuners that are 20-30 years old sound great and some sound bad. Because they all drift differently due to hours of use/abuse and many intangible things like manufacturing variability in the parts they are made from as well as their assembly. Is the reason that as a minimum one would want to align the tuner to insure they are doing an 'apples-to-apples' comparison.absolon said:
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john_w
Miscreant
If your choice is based on reasons like sentimentality or looks, then of course the sound differences don't matter.
Also, if someone has heard a dozen 6060's and a dozen 6065's they probably have a pretty good idea.
If you have both units in front of you, the offset and bias are in-spec on both units and all contacts are clean, I'd think you could make a more reasonable comparison. Even better to have all the electrolytics replaced, and maybe even transistors.
I once tried to compare a couple of amps straight from e-Bay. Then found they were both out-of-spec. Others tried to tell me, but nooooo...
Still, how far do you take this before you have a reasonable idea? I'd think clean, in-spec and maybe power caps replaced would be good 'nuff. But I'm just guessing.
whitehall is right that the more formal testing is a pain, but perhaps the only way to know for sure. Then you have to decide how certain you REALLY need to be! Sometimes you just have to say "That sounds better to me right now. Good enough!"
Also, if someone has heard a dozen 6060's and a dozen 6065's they probably have a pretty good idea.
If you have both units in front of you, the offset and bias are in-spec on both units and all contacts are clean, I'd think you could make a more reasonable comparison. Even better to have all the electrolytics replaced, and maybe even transistors.
I once tried to compare a couple of amps straight from e-Bay. Then found they were both out-of-spec. Others tried to tell me, but nooooo...
Still, how far do you take this before you have a reasonable idea? I'd think clean, in-spec and maybe power caps replaced would be good 'nuff. But I'm just guessing.
whitehall is right that the more formal testing is a pain, but perhaps the only way to know for sure. Then you have to decide how certain you REALLY need to be! Sometimes you just have to say "That sounds better to me right now. Good enough!"
Brian
An Old Geezer
YB2, as you will note, I do mention it in the writeup. I have always said when anyone does a comparison of 2 units that mileage can vary if both units have not been gone through and brought up to original condition. I have had the 6065 since around '87 and had some notes as to the listening when new and when comparing the 2270 and, much of what I heard with the 6065 during this comparison I heard back then so suspect it has aged rather gracefully. The 6060 I know is not 100% up to snuff since I had 1 of the 6060s gone over and the tech attacked the amp but would not go into the tuner. The unit that the tech went over (he replaced 10 caps) does sound marginally better than the 6060 I am using (since its tuner works) so I suspect it too has aged rather gracefully. While not definite, at this time based on my notes from when I bought the 6065 and the 6060 that was gone through more likely than not with both units totally gone through, my preference result would not change, though the amount of difference could somewhat. I just happen to be lucky to still have those early listening notes. This is something I used to do with each piece I bought years ago. Helped in considering combinations and discussing with others as well as giving somewhat of an objective list to a subjective occurence. Today, nah, I don't do it anymore.
Brian
An Old Geezer
In furtherance of my support for YB2's observation, I bought a Yamaha CA610II and CT610II combination to see what allthe Yamaha hub bub was about. Well, actually I knew since way back when it outperformed much of its competiton on listening tests. The combo had what I remembered as the Yamaha sound and quite good but did not make the grade in any way as to a keeper. I decided though to let the amp go through a checkup but it had a real cometic issue and I was looking for a parts unit or faceplate when Krimney found a unit and offered to forward it to me. It was working including the lights which were out on both of my pieces. I bought it and on delivery popped it on witht eh CT610II and Wharfedales that I had tried the other amp on and guess what; like night and day. Well, not huge difference but enough that it went over the goal from well, better than a six pack of beer to a marginal keeper. I usually do a listen and if I think it has potential, I have it looked at or lay it aside for a major go through such as I have done with the Fisher pair. This pair will not be used again until completely gone through and restored. If I do not see the potential, I lay it aside and it can gather dust. Usually, it goes to a friend looking for somthing nicer than he/she has.
IIRC correctly, someone asked about this TT at one point and Axel knew something of it. But don't recall what was said or if it was earlier in this thread or in another.Lefty said:
Brian - I've got several CT-1010 and ST-J75 tuners. The CT-1010 tuners sound different, as do the ST-J75s. Of those that work well, there is one of each that sounds 'best' and I listen to most of the time.
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ejfud
Audio Pinhead
Just picked up these Sony's today along with a cassette deck. They did not work when leaving the store. On closer inspection, the amp had no jumpers. Everything works great now. Don't need it, but it works.
Gary
Sorry forgot model numbers.
Amp is a TA-3650, Tuner is ST-3950SD (FM Dolby?) and the cassette is a TC-K4.
Gary
Sorry forgot model numbers.
Amp is a TA-3650, Tuner is ST-3950SD (FM Dolby?) and the cassette is a TC-K4.
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Humble.........just don't post your address or Axel may pay you a late-night visit. 
Very nice!! Lovely preamp/amp combo. :thmbsp:
ejfud - the units are a matched pair and both sold for $300, each, new in '77-81. Integrated makes 55wpc and you can read about the tuner here http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/reviewsO-Z.html#sony. Nice set! :yes:
Very nice!! Lovely preamp/amp combo. :thmbsp:ejfud - the units are a matched pair and both sold for $300, each, new in '77-81. Integrated makes 55wpc and you can read about the tuner here http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/reviewsO-Z.html#sony. Nice set! :yes:
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absolon
Super Member
In the bag!
Thanks for the space, I got the 6060F :thmbsp: :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5841498303&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1
Paid a little more than the going rate but it is seller's personal unit and he advises in writing that it is fully functional including the multiplexing circuit.
Probably won't get here before Christmas, but I'm sure looking forward to seeing it.
Thanks for the space, I got the 6060F :thmbsp: :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5841498303&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1
Paid a little more than the going rate but it is seller's personal unit and he advises in writing that it is fully functional including the multiplexing circuit.
Probably won't get here before Christmas, but I'm sure looking forward to seeing it.
Brian
An Old Geezer
Hope it works. My experience has been that if the indicator is not working the multiplexer is also not working. I wrote him and specifically asked him when he tunes into a stereo station and then flips the stereo/mono switch does it change. In his answers he averted a direct answer to the question. I asked the same question of the other that is up for sale and he answered and has changed the ad. That is the 1 I'm tracking to buy and probably send to Punker X to tackle.
Am wondering if the MUX circuit has an adjustment as do the Sony tuners? If you read through the tuner listings for Sony on the TIC you can read about same. IIRC it is in the ST-S555ES info, but I could be wrong.
absolon
Super Member
Brian said:
We'll see. I saw his response to your question but have email responses from him to mine specifically stating the tuner functions in stereo, there is no drift over extended listening, and that the dial reads accurately. It's a bit of a low stakes gamble and the unit appeals to me enough to take it.
Do you have the spec sheet on it? I'm trying to find out about the tape head input to see what I can connect to it.
I've got the schematic and the AUX and the tape head input have the different gains. However, it looks like the tape head input runs through the "equalizing amp" while the AUX goes around it right into the balance/volume controls.
The "TAPE" and the AUX have the same path and the same gain but the "tape head" gets an NAB equalization and some amplification.
On my 6060FW, I noticed that the FM stereo light would not come on and I got only mono output. One other symptom is that the center tuning meter would only swing on the right side and would not swing to the left side or beyond center.
Looking at the schematic, the first place I'd look is at the multiplexer diodes, D207/D208. If one of these is open, then the meter would see DC of only one polarity - always positive or always negative.
However, that doesn't resolve the lack of FM Stereo light or the mono. Maybe the transformer right in front of the diodes, T201?
Anyway, mine's in the shop with some local talent. We'll see what they can do. I'll share the results.
The "TAPE" and the AUX have the same path and the same gain but the "tape head" gets an NAB equalization and some amplification.
On my 6060FW, I noticed that the FM stereo light would not come on and I got only mono output. One other symptom is that the center tuning meter would only swing on the right side and would not swing to the left side or beyond center.
Looking at the schematic, the first place I'd look is at the multiplexer diodes, D207/D208. If one of these is open, then the meter would see DC of only one polarity - always positive or always negative.
However, that doesn't resolve the lack of FM Stereo light or the mono. Maybe the transformer right in front of the diodes, T201?
Anyway, mine's in the shop with some local talent. We'll see what they can do. I'll share the results.
absolon
Super Member
Thanks Whitehall. With the NAB equalization, it looks like it won't be of much use to me.
At this point, I'm just going to hope he is as good as his word. I noted his phrasing in his response to Brian and wondered about it, but so far he strikes me as honest. He is shipping today and has already left feedback for me (good seller! - no attempt to hold me to ransom for his feedback). It looks like he is attempting to establish a business as an ebay seller so a negative within his first dozen or so feedbacks is not something I'd think he would intentionally risk. Time will tell.
If the unit lives up to it's reputation, I'll have it gone over once my Sony separates have been done providing I can find a decent tech to do it. I'll be very interested to hear about your experience with the overhaul and particularly what needed attention. In the mean time, I'm going to start working out the wood case. I've three others to build for the separates as well and have a hunch they are the same size and configuration as what the 6060 requires. I think MDF will be the way to go in order to get the correct thickness and will look for some nice ribbon-stripe figured Honduras Mahogany to cover it. I'll prototype it and then take orders for a production run.
At this point, I'm just going to hope he is as good as his word. I noted his phrasing in his response to Brian and wondered about it, but so far he strikes me as honest. He is shipping today and has already left feedback for me (good seller! - no attempt to hold me to ransom for his feedback). It looks like he is attempting to establish a business as an ebay seller so a negative within his first dozen or so feedbacks is not something I'd think he would intentionally risk. Time will tell.
If the unit lives up to it's reputation, I'll have it gone over once my Sony separates have been done providing I can find a decent tech to do it. I'll be very interested to hear about your experience with the overhaul and particularly what needed attention. In the mean time, I'm going to start working out the wood case. I've three others to build for the separates as well and have a hunch they are the same size and configuration as what the 6060 requires. I think MDF will be the way to go in order to get the correct thickness and will look for some nice ribbon-stripe figured Honduras Mahogany to cover it. I'll prototype it and then take orders for a production run.
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Dick - I have one of the 3-piece cases if you would like to borrow and use as a pattern. Mine is a bit rough, so will be having it veneered prior to use, but is in good structural condition and would serve well as a pattern. PM me if interested.
Brian
An Old Geezer
The case for these was the full sleeve case. My suggestion as to the alternative 3-piece system was b/c the covers mount the same way so a 3-piece case could be made and mounted. Something off like the 6045 would be physically too small. Hopefully the seller simply misunderstood my question and all is well save the indicator lamp. I suspect a lot of persons do not think to check this unless asked. The tape head is all but useless unless you have a reel to reel with no electronics and only the tape head. These were playback units and not usually seen in the US. Companies like Crown, BSR (yep, how may of you have 1 of these) and Ampex sold the transports and the electronics were modular addons.