Shure M97XE vs ORTOFON RED??
- Thread starter can-man
- Start date
Well, this trained listener agrees it sounds boring. It is totally devoid of the life I hear in live music. I think it is actually quite coloured. It just flat and undynamic sounding.
While I do have a Zyx now, I am not comparing it directly to that. Rather, knowing what is in the grooves now, I find the Shure is very far removed from what is there. Again, the dynamics, the LIFE, of the music are just gone.
Nor does the Ortofon compare to the Zyx. However, it captures much more of the essence of what is there.
jazzwolf
Super Member
I've never heard a red so I can't comment on that but I have an M97XE and I must agree it is a really boring cartridge and just has no life. It's a great tracker but everytime I put it on my turntable and listen to a few records I wind up taking it off and putting on another of my cartridges. There is no way that it compares to the sound of my other Shure cartridges (V15 III, M97HE, M91ED or M75E). This cartridge was supposed to be the replacement for the M97HE but they are light years apart. The M97HE just sounds fuller and it doesn't have those rolled off highs.
spiralfool
Active Member
I agree 100 percent.:thmbsp: The tipped up highs of the latest craze MC are just the ticket for some tired old ears. For many of us, however, it becomes a bit too much. Those aggressive carts can be like the kid at the front of the class who always have their hand up ready to impress everybody. Eventually you wish they would just sit and relax and let the mood flow.
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
If fantastic imaging and soundstage, powerful dynamics, amazing detail retrieval, and crystal-clear resolution are "gimmicked sound" then I'm sold on the gimmick. I'm being sarcastic because to my ears (and apparently many others) there's a fine line between neutral and lifeless. Music is supposed to sound alive, not flat and dull, which is how the M97XE sounded to me. I would be astonished if anyone listened to the Shure and then a decent MC cartridge and actually preferred the sound of the M97XE, to be honest with you.
To those who like Ortofon, is dynamics an area where their better cartridges typically excel?
I like what I like. End of discussion for my personal system. On the other hand I said the M97eX will end up on the living room TT as it will offend the fewest folks with its "neutral" sound. My ears are what they are. They have 13 cartridges to choose from and don't choose this one very often.
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
Again I want to point out that I don't think the M97XE is a bad cartridge. Someday there will be a place for mine, which is currently on reserve. Either to test new records, play badly-warped ones, or, even more likely, on a setup I'll loan or donate to a friend. So I don't mean to put down anyone who likes or really likes the M97XE, I just disagree 100% that many MC cartridges sound gimmicky compared to it. If anything the MC cartridges are more likely to sound the most natural - that is the case with what I've heard and it's hard to believe that the more expensive ones are all aggressive and unnatural sounding.
grateful
Super Member
Mr Lin, Please listen to live unamplified music and see if you hear imaging and soundstage. Music in a concert hall does not sound like that. It sounds smooth refined somewhat diffuse. Sometimes it has bite sometimes it is laid back. It does not sound zippy of fat or thin. It sounds like a mass of instruments playing in a reverberant space. You hear the instruments and you hear the room good and bad.
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
Really? When I see live music I get a sense of where the instruments are in relation to each other, hence my impression that improved imaging and soundstaging = better sound.
grateful
Super Member
You may believe that, but if you closed your eyes you could not localize instruments at all. The reverberant sound makes that impossible unless you are sitting right in the orchestra. You certainly cannot do that at a rock concert with amplified sound. In many cases the sound is mono. Speakers that are beamy tend to produce a false sense of imaging. I have a $30 clock radio with an ambiance circuit that will blow you away with it's imaging when you throw the switch. It is a gimmick.
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
We'll have to agree to disagree on this. If in some instances it's a "false" sense of imaging, it is still there regardless.
lini
just me...
Did I imply that anywhere? Then sorry for the false impression. I guess, if I should recommend a Shure for a Dual 1225, then I'd suggest to snag an old M75II, M91 or M95 from ebay and put on a NOS Shure ED version needle. And from Ortofon I'd probably recommend a 520II or snagging an old VMS20/30II from the bay and putting on a new D20EII needle...
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
Indeed.
Well maybe?
I did not know we were/are restricted to "unamplified" music? I know a number of local musicians who augment their Dulcimers and Harps with pick-ups and try to keep it natural, but still reach the "nose bleed" seats with the hall speakers (usually KLH commercial ones around here). I can see that MAYBE the M97 would be OK tied to that tree? But I think my AT150MLX would be a much better choice for definition and detail? It certainly is for me
I did not know we were/are restricted to "unamplified" music? I know a number of local musicians who augment their Dulcimers and Harps with pick-ups and try to keep it natural, but still reach the "nose bleed" seats with the hall speakers (usually KLH commercial ones around here). I can see that MAYBE the M97 would be OK tied to that tree? But I think my AT150MLX would be a much better choice for definition and detail? It certainly is for me
grateful
Super Member
I think of unamplified instruments as a standard. After all if you add amplifiers and speakers you really don't have any reference to what the original sound really is. The PA system is coloring the sound of the instruments. If you like that sound buy PA speakers and equipment that has that coloration. As you can see I don't want to hear the equipment at all just the music. AR used to do those tests with their speakers back in the 60s and 70s. They had a small orchestra and would record the performance. Then they would have the orchestra play and stop and have the speakers take over playing the previously recorded tape. The audience could not tell the difference. To me this is a meaningfull standard of loudspeaker and system performance. I think all good Shure cartridges sound like this, M97xe included. If you hear definition or excessive detail that sounds like coloration to me it is not natural. You can get that same effect by twiddling with a eq unit. It tends to wear thin. The Shure M97XE requires extended listening to appeciate it's low distortion and completely uncolored sound. If it sounds dull to you a slight boost of the treble contol may improve it's appeal.
gusten
Addicted Member
I´m not particularly fond of these new 2Ms because of the rather high mass.
On normal tonearms the resonance frequency will be a little to low for my taste. Even on a Technics 1200 it will be below 8Hz with the standard headshell. The OM series are in this respect much better with the 2,7grams without the extra weight.
Of course with a really low mass arm below 8grams it seems reasonably good.
But still, I would choose for example an AT110E or an AT95SA over these two mentioned.
/gusten
On normal tonearms the resonance frequency will be a little to low for my taste. Even on a Technics 1200 it will be below 8Hz with the standard headshell. The OM series are in this respect much better with the 2,7grams without the extra weight.
Of course with a really low mass arm below 8grams it seems reasonably good.
But still, I would choose for example an AT110E or an AT95SA over these two mentioned.
/gusten
solarmusick
Active Member
I'd like to replace my Rega P1's default stylus (the Ortofon OM 5E) with either a 2M Red or Blue soon. I've read some very impressive, in-depth reviews on them from a magazine scan (I'll look for it if anybody is interested), both earned 5/5, so I think I'll stick with Ortofon even though I've wanted to experiment with other things, I don't have the income now. An added bonus is the 2M series is very pleasing to look at aesthetically, and I know it's not the best thing to go by, but who honestly can resist a nice looking cart? 
