Shure M97XE vs ORTOFON RED??

[Dansk]

I got an M97xE a year and a half ago, and I haven't been terribly impressed with it. It does the job, it sounds okay, but it never sounds better than okay.

I know what a truly awesome card SHOULD sound like, because my brother happened upon an old Supex that he uses on his SL-1700mkII. The response of that thing is just astonishing. While the M97 can match redbook on a good day, the Supex simply blows CDs out of the water. There's no competition.

I need to get a decent MC someday...

 

[Mr. Lin]

I need to get a decent MC someday...

Yes, everyone does.

 

[Tapehead47]

I was lurking because I recently got back to vinyl. I surfed around for a good cart and the M97xE kept popping up. And the reviews were very positive so I bought one thru Amazon for $66.

It is okay. Not great. But it's playing my LPs, tracks well, and I'm thrilled I didn't sell all my old vinyl! However, I'm using a receiver at this time and the phono stage may be responsible for the 'merely okay' sound I'm experiencing.

When I get my Hafler DH-110 preamp I'll be able to make a better judgement. At this time I'm using a Kenwood receiver KR-A5030 just for my records. I'm keeping my fingers crossed the Shure sounds a bit better with the Hafler.

Rick

 

[Mr. Lin]

I was lurking because I recently got back to vinyl. I surfed around for a good cart and the M97xE kept popping up. And the reviews were very positive so I bought one thru Amazon for $66.

It is okay. Not great. But it's playing my LPs, tracks well, and I'm thrilled I didn't sell all my old vinyl! However, I'm using a receiver at this time and the phono stage may be responsible for the 'merely okay' sound I'm experiencing.

When I get my Hafler DH-110 preamp I'll be able to make a better judgement. At this time I'm using a Kenwood receiver KR-A5030 just for my records. I'm keeping my fingers crossed the Shure sounds a bit better with the Hafler.

Rick

Rick:

To summarize what a lot of us have been saying here, the M97XE is a solid cartridge, a good budget choice, but there are better cartridges out there in the same price range. I know, this is subjective.

It's good that you recognize how critical your amplification and phono preamp are, and that with something different you might in fact be very happy with the Shure. If you want [more of] my advice, just take your time, it'll work itself out eventually. Not literally, but you know what I mean.:thmbsp:

 

[TOO LOUD???]

I've been thinking about getting a new cartridge I was looking at the M97xE cause I like my older Shures (my main one the body came unglued from the mount I guess 20+ year old glue has it's limits I repaired it but still I think it's time for a new one) every AT I've heard sound bright to my ears I still have one though. I think I might try an Ortofon or maybe a Grado, I'm not crazy about the idea of spending $$$ I like inexpensive <$100.00.

 

[Tapehead47]

After reading this thread I think I'll buy an Ortofon Red, maybe this summer. Or maybe something a little better! Less than $200, for sure.

I've had AT, Ortofon, Sure V's, and others and so far my favorite was an AT. Can't remember what model as it was about 30 years ago.

I replaced it with an Ortofon OS bought and installed at Sensuous Sound here in Tampa. The cart was a dud. One channel was half the volume of the other. And SS wouldn't make good on it, even though they installed it.
It was big money for my nearly empty wallet: about $80 in 197X (late 70's).

I still have it, too. And I'm going to install it on spare shell one of these days and see if it works.

Rick

 

[catman]

G'day all, I'm new here, and I'm from Australia. I've followed this thread with interest and although it's a couple of months old now I'd like to add my 10 cents worth regarding the M97xE. I actually have two M97xE's along with several Ortofon Super OM's and an Ortofon 2M Red.

Yes I agree that the 2M Red is a lovely cartridge, however I think I like my Shure M97xE's more! I bought my first M97xE back in 2004 and yes initially I was disappointed with how 'dull' it sounded. It took me a fair while to realize the reason, excessive 'shunt' input loading capacitance.

Shure recommends around 250 picofarads of overall shunt capacitance and my evaluations show that value to be pretty well 'spot on'. Being a high inductance cartridge, the shunt capacitance can potentially have drastic effects on the high frequency response, particularly too much capacitance. This is a very useful article http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html

With long interconnect cables it is easy (in fact likely), to have way too much shunt cable capacitance. A digital capacitance meter can be a most enlightening test instrument for measuring the exact value of interconnect and tonearm wiring capacitance (remove the cartridge headshell firstly of course, for this test). One can safely assume of value of 50 picofarads or so for the phono preamp internal wiring. This is one of the advantages to having a dedicated phono stage which can be located (physically) close to the turntable with short interconnect leads to the phono preamp input.

Getting the right recommended value of input shunt capacitance makes a big difference to the high frequency response of the Shure M97xE. With the right value of input shunt capacitance, the M97xE sounds beautifully clean, smooth and balanced with a lovely top end, not dull at all. Regards, catman.

 

[hakaplan]

Well you are absolutely correct in that excess capacitance can affect high frequency response. However many of us have swapped out our old cables for new, low capacitance cables, and with a load capacitance of about 250pF for me, at least, the M97xE sounds very good--just as you describe, but it's just that some other carts sound better. Clean, smooth, and balanced can sound dull or boring to someone who likes or is used to a more lively or vibrant sound. I also think that the low output of the M97xE has a negative effect on many listeners.

 

[catman]

Yes, I really like the sound of the M97xE with the right amount of capacitive loading. Indeed, as I also use low capacitance cables I had to add small value capacitors to the input jacks of my DIY phono stage.

The lowish output of the M97xE is 'interesting' as in my setup this works out well as my line preamp has a little too much gain which is nicely padded down by the M97xE.

In comparison, when using my Super OM's or 2M Red, the volume control never goes past a quarter of its rotational range! Regards, catman.

 

[spiralfool]

I think the M97xE is a very good cart on its own, and an exceptional cart when price is considered. If one's system tends toward warm sound, then a brighter cart would probably suit that system better. But for a neutral to bright system, the M97xE is excellent. Most records are cut too bright anyway, so a somewhat rolled off top end is not a problem; they sound just right with a Shure.

I don't think the M97xE is the greatest cart ever made, but it is certainly one that I want on hand and play often. Much like my Denon DL 103, it just has a very good feel to it. I have no interest at all in bright carts like the AT 440mla or the Ortofon 2M Blue. I would like to get a V15 III and see how it compares to the M97xE.

 

[Reticuli]

I disagree with this completely. Maybe the fact that I have never heard a Shure that I love has something to do with it....
Anyhow, the Ortofon is a NEW, clean sheet of paper design. Yes, Ortofon is actually using modern technology to produce new and better designs. To me, it seems that Shure has pretty well given up on phono cartridges. The tooling for the M97 is long since paid for, so they can keep turning them out on the cheap. If Shure was truly interested, they would have thrown some engineering resources into the V15-V to keep it in production.
It actuallly begs the question of whether or not there are phono catridge engineers left at Shure.
Keep in mind that there is a LOT more to the sound of a phono cartridge then the size and shape of the stylus....
E

Bingo. Those engineers are long gone. That's why they couldn't adapt to the OEM V15xMR cantilever being discontinued, as AT did with the 150. All current shure carts are either cosmetic changes or parts mixed and matched from prior designs.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

I favor Ortofon here in this comparison. They have a better design and quality control is less chancy. The 2M Red is excellent sonically and tracks superbly. Why not? And Ortofon still cares dearly for vinylphiles and still gives us improved cartridges regularly. Shure seems to be a sideline on cartridges. No really new ground from them.

 

[cableguy]

I disagree with this completely. Maybe the fact that I have never heard a Shure that I love has something to do with it....
Anyhow, the Ortofon is a NEW, clean sheet of paper design. Yes, Ortofon is actually using modern technology to produce new and better designs. To me, it seems that Shure has pretty well given up on phono cartridges. The tooling for the M97 is long since paid for, so they can keep turning them out on the cheap. If Shure was truly interested, they would have thrown some engineering resources into the V15-V to keep it in production.
It actuallly begs the question of whether or not there are phono catridge engineers left at Shure.
Keep in mind that there is a LOT more to the sound of a phono cartridge then the size and shape of the stylus....
E

I am in agreement there...I have never been impressed by the Shure...

Whenever a question about the M97XE comes up I usually insert my opinion that it's "sound" is boring. Just based on what people have said here on AK about the 2M series I would recommend that in a heartbeat over the Shure.

Ditto!

 

[catman]

G'day all, it's nice to see an old thread pop up again! Interesting comparing my earlier comments with the present, and of course in the interim I and others have discovered what slightly increased resistive phono stage loading to around 62 k or thereabouts can do for the M97xE, a lot!

At 62 k and lowish shunt input capacitance, as I've said many times before, and even with the standard stylus, I have absolutely no complaints with the sound of the Shure M97xE and although build issues have been well documented, my three just keep on working, year after year! I love the M97xE! :thmbsp: Regards, Felix aka catman.

 

[DrMux]

Just received the Shure today and replaced my Nagaoka MP-110. I prefer the Shure M97xE. And it was about $40 cheaper.