Shure M97XE vs ORTOFON RED??

[Mr. Lin]

I´m not particularly fond of these new 2Ms because of the rather high mass.
On normal tonearms the resonance frequency will be a little to low for my taste. Even on a Technics 1200 it will be below 8Hz with the standard headshell. The OM series are in this respect much better with the 2,7grams without the extra weight.
Of course with a really low mass arm below 8grams it seems reasonably good.
But still, I would choose for example an AT110E or an AT95SA over these two mentioned.
/gusten

Yeah I still think it was an odd choice on the part of Ortofon to make the 2M series so heavy.

 

[Mr. Lin]

I'd like to replace my Rega P1's default stylus (the Ortofon OM 5E) with either a 2M Red or Blue soon. I've read some very impressive, in-depth reviews on them from a magazine scan (I'll look for it if anybody is interested), both earned 5/5, so I think I'll stick with Ortofon even though I've wanted to experiment with other things, I don't have the income now. An added bonus is the 2M series is very pleasing to look at aesthetically, and I know it's not the best thing to go by, but who honestly can resist a nice looking cart?

Every time I see a picture of someone's turntable here on AK with a 2M cartridge on it I have to comment on how cool they look.

 

[Joey1127]

The Shure M97xE is NOT nude. If you doubt this, check the documentation at vinylengine.com. When Shure made nude ellipticals, the designation ended with a "D" as in "M91ED."

The SHURE M97xE is indeed a NUDE Stylus. If you doubt this, call SHURE Directly and ask them. The stylus is a NUDE Shank. I don't beleive it is square, but it is NUDE acording to SHURE...unless they are lying which I can't imagine why they would.

Joey

 

[Joey1127]

I disagree with this completely. Maybe the fact that I have never heard a Shure that I love has something to do with it....
Anyhow, the Ortofon is a NEW, clean sheet of paper design. Yes, Ortofon is actually using modern technology to produce new and better designs. To me, it seems that Shure has pretty well given up on phono cartridges. The tooling for the M97 is long since paid for, so they can keep turning them out on the cheap. If Shure was truly interested, they would have thrown some engineering resources into the V15-V to keep it in production.
It actuallly begs the question of whether or not there are phono catridge engineers left at Shure.
Keep in mind that there is a LOT more to the sound of a phono cartridge then the size and shape of the stylus....
E

Sorry, the stylus is a CRITICAL factor in reproduction of the sound. If the information being pulled from the grove is in any way blocked or effected by a clunky stylus, the sound reproduced will be effected. While the overall warmth or sound of a cart is indeed related to the internal workings of the cartridge body, a NUDE stylus is going to track and trace a lot better than it's cheep bonded equivilent will. Also, shape is critical for extraction of information...this is old news though. If this did not matter, we woul still be ussing CONICAL styli. Perhaps a 2M BLUE would be a better choice, but givin the budget, that may not be an option so I did not recomend it...and the ? was M97xE or RED....

 

[BrocLuno]

Depends on the cheap bond? Some cheap bonds are way stronger than the vinyl being played or the aluminum cantilever tube. Just because you push a raw diamond through a hole, does not mean it is better attached. Maybe lighter tip mass without the bonding agent, maybe better alignment as in no glue up errors, but they are gluing 757 and 777 jetliners together and I think it's a better technology than a "nude" rivet?

 

[Mr. Lin]

Sorry, the stylus is a CRITICAL factor in reproduction of the sound. If the information being pulled from the grove is in any way blocked or effected by a clunky stylus, the sound reproduced will be effected. While the overall warmth or sound of a cart is indeed related to the internal workings of the cartridge body, a NUDE stylus is going to track and trace a lot better than it's cheep bonded equivilent will. Also, shape is critical for extraction of information...this is old news though. If this did not matter, we woul still be ussing CONICAL styli. Perhaps a 2M BLUE would be a better choice, but givin the budget, that may not be an option so I did not recomend it...and the ? was M97xE or RED....

I don't think Erik necessarily disputes this, although I don't want to put words in his mouth. I believe he was just pointing out that overall cartridge design is very important, just like the type of stylus.

 

[Bigerik]

I don't think Erik necessarily disputes this, although I don't want to put words in his mouth. I believe he was just pointing out that overall cartridge design is very important, just like the type of stylus.

Well, yes and no. While I don't doubt the value of a good stylus, it is not THE deciding factor in the sound of the cartridge. The Denon 103 with a CONICAL stylus makes more and better music than any other cartridge in its price range. Sure, it sounds better with an even better stylus type, as a lot of guys are doing out there, but as it is it sounds better than all the cartridges in its price range with much better stylus types.

 

[Mr. Lin]

Well, yes and no. While I don't doubt the value of a good stylus, it is not THE deciding factor in the sound of the cartridge. The Denon 103 with a CONICAL stylus makes more and better music than any other cartridge in its price range. Sure, it sounds better with an even better stylus type, as a lot of guys are doing out there, but as it is it sounds better than all the cartridges in its price range with much better stylus types.

I think that 103 might just be the most commonly and heavily modified cartridge of all time. I've really got to get one of those and hear for myself. The description of its sound is appealing.

So what (I think) we can agree on is that there are many things that go into making a good or great cartridge, not only the stylus, important as it is (IMO). Since I know how important the design of a cartridge body is I was surprised when I recently found out that the only differences between the cartridges in Grados Prestige series are the styli. Makes me feel more justified in having gone with a Silver instead of a Gold, I still think the difference is probably fairly minute.

 

[SA-708]

Makes me feel more justified in having gone with a Silver instead of a Gold, I still think the difference is probably fairly minute.

Per Grado:

The Gold model is selected from the Silver production run and meet higher test specifications. Approximately 5% of the production run meet these standards and become Gold models.

My guess is that there is more variation in the Silvers than the Golds, as far as performance.

 

[Mr. Lin]

Per Grado:


My guess is that there is more variation in the Silvers than the Golds, as far as performance.

Yeah but the Gold is a Silver that supposedly meets certain standards, and I have a hard time believing that 5% of Silvers sound significantly better than the rest, but I don't know this for a fact.

Regardless, when people here on AK are asking for cartridge selection advice and Grado is an option, I usually recommend just going for a Gold.

 

[grateful]

My guess is they (Grado) laugh all the way to the bank every time they sell a gold.

 

[lini]

Actually, I wouldn't be that much surprised about that number, 'cause there also seems to be quite a bit of fluctuation in the build quality of Grado's headphones: Especially their cheaper models rather often seem to have flaws, mainly cosmetical ones...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[SA-708]

If the top 5% of Silvers become Golds, how many get rejected for not meeting the minimum standards for Silvers?

 

[Mr. Lin]

My guess is they (Grado) laugh all the way to the bank every time they sell a gold.

I highly doubt that, if for no other reason than the price difference is something like $30.

Lini I have SR-60s and the 325i. I did a lot of reading here and on Head-fi before purchasing, and never once did I come across any accounts of poor quality control with Grado headphones.

 

[Tapehead47]

 

[lini]

Lini I have SR-60s and the 325i. I did a lot of reading here and on Head-fi before purchasing, and never once did I come across any accounts of poor quality control with Grado headphones.

I've been on Head-Fi right from the beginning and have read quite a few threads with complaints about Grado's build quality there. Just one example: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/sloppy-grado-nitpicking-212562/

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[iLUVanalog]

I disagree with this completely. Maybe the fact that I have never heard a Shure that I love has something to do with it....
Anyhow, the Ortofon is a NEW, clean sheet of paper design. Yes, Ortofon is actually using modern technology to produce new and better designs. To me, it seems that Shure has pretty well given up on phono cartridges. The tooling for the M97 is long since paid for, so they can keep turning them out on the cheap. If Shure was truly interested, they would have thrown some engineering resources into the V15-V to keep it in production.
It actuallly begs the question of whether or not there are phono catridge engineers left at Shure.
Keep in mind that there is a LOT more to the sound of a phono cartridge then the size and shape of the stylus....
E

====

I would agree with bigerik. I stopped buying Shure cartridges when they stopped making two models....

the V15 Type IV and
the M94E

The V15 Type V-MR wasn't worth a damn.

I especially miss the M94E....a real sleeper with good sound and it was inexpensive to boot.

 

[Mr. Lin]

I've been on Head-Fi right from the beginning and have read quite a few threads with complaints about Grado's build quality there. Just one example: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/sloppy-grado-nitpicking-212562/

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Well in any case mine are amazing.

 

[clydeselsor]

I have the Ortofon 2M Red and I am quite pleased with it. I have never heard the Shure cartridge so I cannot give an opinion on which is better. The Ortofon required some run-in time, but sounds great to me now.

 

[Russellc]

I disagree with this completely. Maybe the fact that I have never heard a Shure that I love has something to do with it....
Anyhow, the Ortofon is a NEW, clean sheet of paper design. Yes, Ortofon is actually using modern technology to produce new and better designs. To me, it seems that Shure has pretty well given up on phono cartridges. The tooling for the M97 is long since paid for, so they can keep turning them out on the cheap. If Shure was truly interested, they would have thrown some engineering resources into the V15-V to keep it in production.
It actuallly begs the question of whether or not there are phono catridge engineers left at Shure.
Keep in mind that there is a LOT more to the sound of a phono cartridge then the size and shape of the stylus....
E

I have a shure, V15Vxmr which I do love. As far as the 97 is concerned, while fine for its way affordable entry price, is greatly overrated. Its plently good for the money, but a world beater its not. Neither is the V15Vxmr for that matter, which is WAY better than the new 97. Never heard that ortofon, but have really enjoyed the om 20 and om 30 carts in the past, if its anything like them, I'd pick it. Shure appears to slowly to be getting out of the cart business, Ortofon is still hard at it, new stuff, support, etc.

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

Whenever a question about the M97XE comes up I usually insert my opinion that it's "sound" is boring. Just based on what people have said here on AK about the 2M series I would recommend that in a heartbeat over the Shure.

My feeling precisely.

Russellc