MisterDK
Addicted Member
Not sure if you’re being funny - but you’re wrong. Look at Sony service info and owner manuals. Guess I need to post another Sony illustration..
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Sony 2251 and/or 2250 owners thread
- Thread starter mackat
- Start date
Not sure if you’re being funny - but you’re wrong. Look at Sony service info and owner manuals. Guess I need to post another Sony illustration..
flavio81
Turntable technician
Not that I’ll notice it but original wow/flutter spec was 0.04%. Original SP-10 (MK 1) published a spec of 0.03%… Looks like they were intended to compete. All I can say is, glad I picked this 2251 up..
P.S. - I’m really liking the cork shoes on this..
You need to be very careful with W&F figures because they will depend on the tonearm and cartridge used. It's not so easy to compare.
A german magazine tested the 2251 or 2250 with the stock Sony arm and the results were higher.
HIfi Stereophonie magazine (German)
TTS-2500
with PUA-1500S
Translated using Google
W&F is 0.075 to 0.09 when measured according to the DIN standard (which will always give higher figures than the WRMS figures quoted by the japanese)
This is using a DIN record 45545. Better records, or different tonearms and cartridges, will give better figures.
My two Sony tables give absolutely clean,stable piano reproduction, both with AT-VM540ML+SME 3009/III and with RB303+AT-VM95ML, so I can't worry too much about this.
Flavio, I’m really liking that plinth you have… Did your plinth guy charge a whole lot for it? Curious…
about $162 USD
He's a fellow audiophile(and carpenter) and also owns a PS-2500.
I just made a request of the online moderator - so, maybe..
Just changed it. While I was apparently online when you sent it, I didn't get to it til sometime later.
MisterDK
Addicted Member
MisterDK
Addicted Member
Well - going for a drive through Los Angeles this morning to pick up my second 2251..
No fun, but it won’t have to be poorly packed (?) and suffer shipping damage….
This one was relatively cheap but not as clean as the first 2251 I brought home. I’ll probably post a few pictures later today, after evaluating it. If the original plinth veneer is a bit too scruffy or the dust cover too scratched, this one may be good for a dual arm table in a bigger, new plinth..
No fun, but it won’t have to be poorly packed (?) and suffer shipping damage….
This one was relatively cheap but not as clean as the first 2251 I brought home. I’ll probably post a few pictures later today, after evaluating it. If the original plinth veneer is a bit too scruffy or the dust cover too scratched, this one may be good for a dual arm table in a bigger, new plinth..
Well - going for a drive through Los Angeles this morning to pick up my second 2251..
No fun, but it won’t have to be poorly packed (?) and suffer shipping damage….
This one was relatively cheap but not as clean as the first 2251 I brought home. I’ll probably post a few pictures later today, after evaluating it. If the original plinth veneer is a bit too scruffy or the dust cover too scratched, this one may be good for a dual arm table in a bigger, new plinth..
Good luck with the drive and purchase!
flavio81
Turntable technician
This one was relatively cheap but not as clean as the first 2251 I brought home. I’ll probably post a few pictures later today, after evaluating it. If the original plinth veneer is a bit too scruffy or the dust cover too scratched, this one may be good for a dual arm table in a bigger, new plinth..
What I would evaluate is the main bearing, try rocking it side to side to see if there is play.
On the other hand, both of my sony DDs (2500 and 2251) had bearing play, one of them had a quite strong one, which completely disappeared after adding more oil.
The other thing I would evaluate is how easy it gains speed from standstill, without "overshoot", i have a 2251 where, on start, speed overshoots, then slows down, then speeds up, about 3 times until speed is then steady. I am suspecting some worn capacitors on mine.
Yet another thing to test is for speed stability. Turn it on, set it to precise speed, and let it warm, say, at least 5 minutes. The speed might drift a little bit but it should never become crazy or unsteady.
Check that the electronics haven´t been mishandled or tampered with. You can just unmount the turntable from the plinth by removing the platter and then it's only 3 screws, sometimes they are hex screws (metric size). Then lift the turntable and look at the underside.
MisterDK
Addicted Member
How'd did the drive go?
Traffic not too horrible - but still hate driving through LA.. My wonderful wife actually drove; I’m on too many meds for it to be safe.
When I got there the seller switched it on and - no strobe lit and a light scraping sound.. Not a good sign. Switches are sticky, too.
I pulled the platter to see both brake magnets loose and way out of their positions - BUT the motor runs. It wasn’t crazy expensive so I took it as a challenging project.. Getting home, I put the magnets in their places and switched on again. Now I have a strobe! The speeds do adjust up, as well. I added a couple drops light oil and let it run for an hour. Nice and quiet. Biggest concern seems to be low torque (?) so I’ll need to do some measuring. This may need a recap…
Plinth may clean up OK and dust cover isn’t too horrible.. Armboard for the Sony arm looks perfect.
This one’s going to need some work but since I grumbled quite a bit - the seller threw in a (possibly unused) NAD/Rega RB250 tonearm.. I’ll post some pictures of this one tomorrow..
Anyway, I should have bought the nice one that was in Temecula. Though more expensive, it seems a much better deal.
flavio81
Turntable technician
Score!!
That the magnets are off give you an opportunity of confirming the magnet height is OK, following the procedure on the service manual. The target is to reach a certain AC voltage on the motor coils when the turntable is at 33RPM.
As for the strobe, if it fails again there is a replacement:
Some clever guy used a blue led with a resistor.
Source:
http://soundaries.com/2014/01/tts-2500-part-i.html/
However the resistor value is not disclosed. Now, you could wire a 10K or 50K potentiometer and carefully turn it until the led turns on, then you would have the correct resistor value.
flavio81
Turntable technician
I'm using a RB303 on one of my Sonys and it works good.
Slightly off topic, I recently bought a Rega RP1 just to fetch the tonearm. It confirmed my suspicion -- Rega sunk the cost of the RP1 mainly in the tonearm, because the rest of the turntable is crap quality compared to the tonearm. Even the one in the RP1 - the rb101- sounds good.
MisterDK
Addicted Member
Nice and quiet. Biggest concern seems to be low torque (?) so I’ll need to do some measuring. This may need a recap…
Plinth may clean up OK and dust cover isn’t too horrible.. Armboard for the Sony arm looks perfect.
Anyway, I should have bought the nice one that was in Temecula. Though more expensive, it seems a much better deal.
Low torque is prolly motor related. Not capacitor. There maybe more alignment needed.
But, if you are going the cap route --- might as well replace them all. I have not seen a cap kit on eBay or the Net, like the ones for Technics 1200s.
I bought a pretty worn out 2250, just for parts. Board, motor, something I can work and learn on, if need be. I've only tried it to see if it works. Never played it.
Yeah, be interested in those photos.
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MisterDK
Addicted Member
Low torque is prolly motor related. Not capacitor. There maybe more alignment needed.
I bought a pretty worn out 2250, just for parts. Board, motor, something I can work and learn on, if need be. I've only tried it to see if it works. Never played it.
Yeah, be interested in those photos.
We may need a few of those parts…
We may need a few of those parts…
I always look for donors. Especially, in these hard to find units. Specific parts are becoming unobtanium.
flavio81
Turntable technician
There could be other causes, too, for example:
- bearing in bad shape / not well lubed
- magnet height -- too high = too much braking = less torque available for drive
- motor phase shift capacitor not in good shape (this is rare but a wrong phase shift would cause many problems)
Note that these turntables do not have the torque of some DDs like most Technics DD turntables. But you all already knew that, probably.
flavio81
Turntable technician
A good electrical engineer could design a completely new control unit for those turntables. It isn't THAT difficult.
Perhaps some japanese guy has already done it!
Or you could fish the parts off a $200 donor. Hard to find those donors anymore.
MisterDK
Addicted Member
This one I just bought was the $200 donor - but I think it’ll fix up OK and make a nice table again. Still early here - pics later..
edit: some pictures..
The Rega/NAD arm, while looking decent - needs wiring repair. It’s RB250 based, so that may not be so easy.. We’ll see..
Here’s the table:
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