SX-1010 won't Power On...

[D.E.K]

No matter. Sometimes too many details to make things easier backfires and end up making things more complicated instead. My fault in a way, trying to see a big picture behind everything while what I'm looking for is smacking me across the face.

Been a really long day at work and it's about 2:30 A.M. I will hit the sack and try to take the readings tomorrow.

 

[markthefixer]

No matter. Sometimes too many details to make things easier backfires and end up making things more complicated instead. My fault in a way, trying to see a big picture behind everything while what I'm looking for is smacking me across the face.

Been a really long day at work and it's about 2:30 A.M. I will hit the sack and try to take the readings tomorrow.

Sounds good, I had a rough weekend too. Wild weather and too little sleep.

 

[D.E.K]

Sorry Mark, couldn't take readings as I said I would. New Year's rush was awful in the warehouse I work at. Had to work lots of overtime which can become a pain in the arse especially considering my regular 3:30 P.M-11:30 P.M shifts (lot of working after midnight)

I will try and most probably will take those readings tonight and post them.

 

[markthefixer]

NO rush, I've got plumbing to attend to as soon as I log out. I was rushing myself, to clear the forum today and not leave anybody hanging.

 

[D.E.K]

Good, you're here. Before you leave, do you want me to switch the meter leads? That will make 28 readings then. Red on one blade (7), Red on the other blade (7), Black on one blade (7) and Black on the other blade (7). Or since there is no polarity, it doesn't matter? Answer that and I'll let you be.

 

[markthefixer]

Good, you're here. Before you leave, do you want me to switch the meter leads? That will make 28 readings then. Red on one blade (7), Red on the other blade (7), Black on one blade (7) and Black on the other blade (7). Or since there is no polarity, it doesn't matter? Answer that and I'll let you be.

In this case there is no polarity, so it doesn't matter.

Happy New Year, I'm outta here - plumbing... yeccch...

 

[D.E.K]

Plumbing, what a way to start a new year.

Happy New Year to you. Best wishes to you and your loved ones.

 

[D.E.K]

Here goes. I took 32 readings to cover everything. You're familiar with Receptacle 1,2,3,4,5,6 (Post #347) and Point A,B,C (Post#354). Now say hello to Blade X and Blade Y. The picture is below. To make things clearer, other end of Blade X is soldered onto the metal piece INSIDE the receiver at the point directly behind Receptacle 1 and Blade Y behind Receptacle 2.

Readings:

Red Lead on Blade X:

Receptacle 1: 00.1
Receptacle 2: 01.4
Receptacle 3: 00.1
Receptacle 4: 01.4
Receptacle 5: 00.6
Receptacle 6: 01.4
Point A: 01.4
Bare Chasis also Point C: OL

Red Lead on Blade Y:

Receptacle 1: 01.4
Receptacle 2: 00.1
Receptacle 3: 01.4
Receptacle 4: 00.1
Receptacle 5: 00.8 to 00.9
Receptacle 6: 00.1
Point A: 00.1
Bare Chasis also Point C: OL

Black Lead on Blade X:

Receptacle 1: 00.3 to 00.4
Receptacle 2: 01.7
Receptacle 3: 00.4
Receptacle 4: 02.0
Receptacle 5: 01.2
Receptacle 6: 02.0
Point A: 02.0
Bare Chasis also Point C: OL

Black Lead on Blade Y:

Receptacle 1: 01.9
Receptacle 2: 00.4
Receptacle 3: 02.0
Receptacle 4: 00.4
Receptacle 5: 01.2
Receptacle 6: 00.4
Point A: 00.4
Bare Chasis also Point C: OL


I hope these will do. Some of the readings are most likely unnecessary but just in case.

 

[markthefixer]

I discovered something about the unit. When the DIMMER is ON, the relay engages every time I power up the receiver. But when the dimmer is OFF, no click. When the relay clicks with the dimmer on, in AUX, I tried the headphones, no audio but a slight "POP" in the headphones as soon as the relay engages. Without powering off the unit, I switch to FM (when it's set on a station) from AUX and within a second or two, the relay clicks off again. Those are the up to date symptoms.

Well, there isn't a soft start relay in the 1010, so the click is the protection relay, BUT there is something else I need to ask:

The click, how LONG after power up does it happen:
less than or around a second,
or more like 5 seconds?

As it stands, those readings don't indicate an excessive resistance in the primary circuit. I will look at it closer, but in a day or two.

 

[D.E.K]

Glad you asked. I paid attention to that right after the relay stopped clicking. When the dimmer's off, when the relay clicks all the time that is, it is within 5 seconds. I haven't owned a unit with a protection relay that clicks within 1 second or less. SA-6800, SX-950, SA-9500 II, SA-8500II, SA-7700 etc. They are all within 3-5 seconds. Anyway, back to SX-1010, every once in a blue moon, the relay would click when the dimmer is OFF. And that is when the relay usually clicks a little after usual, which I would say is a bit later than 5 seconds. But very, very seldom the relay clicks within 5 seconds AND with the dimmer OFF though that is once out of 40 times perhaps. To make long story short, the relay clicks in every possible circumstance. But generally, 9 times out of 10, it is when the dimmer is off and within 5 seconds. I am quite familiar with those relays and it didn't seem any longer than usual. Iwill conduct a series of timing experiments this weekend. I will try to get the relay to click and time each one. I will probably time 25-30 clicks. Just to be on the safe side.

P.S: I see that you're participating in 5-6 different SX-1010 threads. Are they THAT problematic or are we just a bunch of poor saps that are going through a rough patch??

 

[markthefixer]

There are a LOT of them out there, (they WERE the top of the line unit in their day) and they are getting older, so the few problems manifest themselves: the 2sa726's start breaking down, the 2sc1451's also break down - both I suspect were process problems when the transistors were made. The electrolytic caps dry out. And the heat sink grease dries out, thus allowing the outputs to heat up further.

The trim pots on the boards get cranky with age, and improper ventilation over stresses the power supplies. Then there's the deoxiting of the 30+ year old contacts and controls.

Rather than re-reading the long thread, DID we do any parts replacements on the protection board yet?

 

[D.E.K]

No, no parts replacement. The parts didn't arrive yet.

 

[markthefixer]

No, no parts replacement. The parts didn't arrive yet.

Until the new parts are installed, all bets about the protection are off.

I remember now, do you remember the picture of the protection board with the new parts that was posted, that's you best guide as to what to do, when answering questions I will be referring to that picture.

 

[ccheath]

>>>OT<<<

When LWB asked a question in Post #337 got me curious what that purple wire was connected to. Is the purple wire running from your regulator to the yellow capacitor wrapped in electrical tape? See pic:

 

[D.E.K]

Until the new parts are installed, all bets about the protection are off.

I remember now, do you remember the picture of the protection board with the new parts that was posted, that's you best guide as to what to do, when answering questions I will be referring to that picture.

Roger

 

[LWB]

Something to watch for besides old repairs

>>>OT<<<

When LWB asked a question in Post #337 got me curious what that purple wire was connected to. Is the purple wire running from your regulator to the yellow capacitor wrapped in electrical tape? See pic:

LWB, here. I've been keeping quiet, lest someone accuse me of crossing threads again.

I think I should point out though, that DEK's SX-1010 shows something else besides experience (this previous kluge repair - looks to me like the purple wires, indeed, go to the mystery electrolytic capacitor bound up with electrical tape).

The corrosion on the back panel, seen in DEK's photos, suggests proximity to salty humidity. This reminds me of the 'Beach Disease' I've read about in other threads, a condition developed by audio gear such as an SX-1010 that have been operated for many years near the ocean. The transistors attract salt crystal deposits on the undersides. The salt crystals are said to form in small figure-eights on the underside of the transistors, between the B, C, E leads. The salt crystals are conductive, and can really screw up the old girl's operation.

Honest, this is what I read and, as fantastic as it sounds, it is believable. I can't find the thread again - I'm sure it's here on AK somewhere - but I would respectfully suggest DEK be aware of this condition as he goes through testing and repair.

Maybe one of you other AKers can recall the threads in which this was discussed?

 

[markthefixer]

LWB, here. I've been keeping quiet, lest someone accuse me of crossing threads again.

I think I should point out though, that DEK's SX-1010 shows something else besides experience (this previous kluge repair - looks to me like the purple wires, indeed, go to the mystery electrolytic capacitor bound up with electrical tape).

The corrosion on the back panel, seen in DEK's photos, suggests proximity to salty humidity. This reminds me of the 'Beach Disease' I've read about in other threads, a condition developed by audio gear such as an SX-1010 that have been operated for many years near the ocean. The transistors attract salt crystal deposits on the undersides. The salt crystals are said to form in small figure-eights on the underside of the transistors, between the B, C, E leads. The salt crystals are conductive, and can really screw up the old girl's operation.

Honest, this is what I read and, as fantastic as it sounds, it is believable. I can't find the thread again - I'm sure it's here on AK somewhere - but I would respectfully suggest DEK be aware of this condition as he goes through testing and repair.

Maybe one of you other AKers can recall the threads in which this was discussed?

Fred Longworth's posts. try "salt" "conductive" "deposit" "deposits" as search terms.

Indeed, CBS, Newfoundland, CANADA where D.E.K lists as home, is probably Conception Bay South, bay as in saltwater....

 

[D.E.K]

Mark put it very nicely. Besides, expected 20-30cm. of snow any given day 5 months of the year, salt is everywhere. It might seem like a no connection to you but hey. Salt is on your boots carried all over your basement and porch, it is all over your clothing from shovelling. Then the receiver is kicked around on that salty, damp basement floor... for 30+ YEARS. And there is the humid bay ocean weather. Think about it.

 

[markthefixer]

Well, start trying to scrape the salt off the undersides of the transistors, with the unit OFF for a while to let all voltages dissipate.

Might improve things.

 

[D.E.K]

Now I'm lost here between LBW's board and Chris' board and everything else. Which transistors are we talking about?