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Thorens TD-124 Project Turntable

targeteye and bob06..... Thanks, that looks like the way to go!! That chart is very telling.

Now the question is how do I get the conversion kit so I can install the spring system??

Thanks!
 
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Lapslah said:
I understand that you say the cost of having the motor rebuilt is prohibitive for you. Have you considered buying the parts and doing it yourself? Here is my thread with a step-by-step for doing just that: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=588789

Note the decrease in motor noise that I achieved. From what you've said, I think this should be your focus.
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Let's see if what targeteye and bob06 spring system could do for it first. Thanks, and I will consider doing a rebuild myself, but not yet as I think the problem is in the mounting.

Thanks
 
PM Volken he is the one that sells the springs. As far as the conversion kit the guy from Italy is the cheapest I have found. He sells quality parts.
 
AudioJag said:
From this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIrYWc6zyBo
It looks like you have to convert the motor mounting post size to be increased before you put on the springs.

Is this correct??

Can the conversion posts be bought somewhere cheaper than from the Rome site:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONVERSION-...Home_Audio_Impianti_HI_FI&hash=item3cd1d6f259
Click to expand...

If you are trying to spend your audio dollars safely on this restoration project I would urge you to be absolutely sure where the noise is coming from before throwing your dollars at it. From what I see the conversion kit and spring system is going to be as expensive as a motor rebuild.

So buy an inexpensive stethoscope, or borrow one from an auto parts store if possible, and start listening to the critical parts of the turntable. Try to determine for sure where it is coming from, whether its the motor, the spindle/bearing assembly, or the idler wheel. If it is a mechanical noise, it would seem to have to be one of the three suspects...but the question is do you really know which one it is?

I don't think I have ever recommended this idea to anyone else. But from the get go you do not seem enamored with the TD 124. In un-restored condition they are worth over a kilo buck if in nice cosmetic condition. If you already have a go to table, perhaps it is just best to sell it and allocate the funds to a properly functioning second table and doing a few upgrades or maintenance to the rest of your audio gear Perhaps a couple of new cartridges could be in the works. That way you don't spend money on a table you are iffy about, and you put money into your audio kitty. Never recommended that to anyone about a TD 124, but it sounds like it is not your cup of tea you know?

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Mister Pig said:
If you are trying to spend your audio dollars safely on this restoration project I would urge you to be absolutely sure where the noise is coming from before throwing your dollars at it. From what I see the conversion kit and spring system is going to be as expensive as a motor rebuild.

So buy an inexpensive stethoscope, or borrow one from an auto parts store if possible, and start listening to the critical parts of the turntable. Try to determine for sure where it is coming from, whether its the motor, the spindle/bearing assembly, or the idler wheel. If it is a mechanical noise, it would seem to have to be one of the three suspects...but the question is do you really know which one it is?

I don't think I have ever recommended this idea to anyone else. But from the get go you do not seem enamored with the TD 124. In un-restored condition they are worth over a kilo buck if in nice cosmetic condition. If you already have a go to table, perhaps it is just best to sell it and allocate the funds to a properly functioning second table and doing a few upgrades or maintenance to the rest of your audio gear Perhaps a couple of new cartridges could be in the works. That way you don't spend money on a table you are iffy about, and you put money into your audio kitty. Never recommended that to anyone about a TD 124, but it sounds like it is not your cup of tea you know?

Regards
Mister Pig
Click to expand...

I agree with the above. A more methodical approach is called for here, rather than throwing money at it, hoping that a perceived upgrade will fix a still-undiagnosed problem.

Your first step if you plan to keep this table has to be a motor rebuild; that is just basic maintenance. It may also quiet the motor down, fixing the 'hum' that you are hearing. There is no sense in buying upgrade parts (ie: fancy motor mounts) unless you know for sure which of the stock parts are failing.

Let me reiterate that a properly serviced TD-124, even with stock parts (in good condition), should be pretty darn quiet. Rumble is not something that you have to accept.
 
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beatcomber said:
I agree with the above. A more methodical approach is called for here, rather than throwing money at it, hoping that a perceived upgrade will fix a still-undiagnosed problem.

Your first step if you plan to keep this table has to be a motor rebuild; that is just basic maintenance. It may also quiet the motor down, fixing the 'hum' that you are hearing. There is no sense in buying upgrade parts (ie: fancy motor mounts) unless you know for sure which of the stock parts are failing.

Let me reiterate that a properly serviced TD-124, even with stock parts (in good condition), should be pretty darn quiet. Rumble is not something that you have to accept.
Click to expand...

I agree first revision then the upgrade but do it good !

Volken
 
targeteye said:
audiojag,
I've owned several rim drive tables and none of them have been as quiet as a good Belt or Direct drive table. It is no coincidence that manufacturers had to abandon this method (except for tables intended to be mounted in massive consoles) in order to achieve the noise figures required. Also, you'll notice that in the TD125 the motor is mounted to a different plane than the arm and the platter.

I have a td124 MkII. That is mounted solid to a fairly heavy plinth. The motor needs to be cleaned (I have a kit waiting time to do it). This is not a dead quiet turntable nor would I expect it to be even with its "stock" mkII grommet setup (40+ year old gromets) and a freshly cleaned motor.

However improvements can be made. Here is an excelent article to reveiw.

http://www.hanzehifi.nl/merken-bezigheden/thorens-garrard/thorens/td124

Since these measurement were taken in the Netherlands I would only assume doing them in the US would produce 120hz hum instead of 100Hz hum. They did seem to get the hum down to -76db which is actually Direct Drive type figures but remember thats just the noise from the motor and is not measured with the belt and all other mechincals running.

I don't think folks use these tables becuase they are looking for a quiet solution. I find that even though my td124 is not a quiet as my other tables I do prefer to use it. I think there may actually be something to a flywheel spinning, directly coupled to a fairly heavy platter being a superior musically but inferior from a Signal to Noise ratio. Granted it may just be my imagination.




Steve
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You are right Steve in the USA its 120 Hz and the -76db measurement is only a relative measurement for 100 hz in my measurement setup !Thus no total rumble measurement for the hole table !

Volken
 
" Originally Posted by Mister Pig View Post
Have you removed the belt and checked to make sure it is indeed a mechanical issue with the motor that is causing the noise? If it is motor related then it should still appear with the cartridge just resting on the vinyl and the motor turning. And then the question becomes is it possible to deal with the issue with the motor mounts. "

I'm going to try Mister Pigs suggestion quoted here as a first step later today. Maybe I can also find a simple stethoscope and check other things. From all the suggestions that I've been receiving, and as in what others have done and the video link, the motor isolation ranks highest on the list as the most likely problem.

I'm strangely attached to the 124 and have had thoughts of selling it....... but that doesn't seem to be something I can bring myself to do. So, step by step, and with your help, this one will get cured!
 
I use a screwdriver instead of the stethoscope.Hold a hard handle one to your ear.
 
AudioJag said:
" Originally Posted by Mister Pig View Post
Have you removed the belt and checked to make sure it is indeed a mechanical issue with the motor that is causing the noise? If it is motor related then it should still appear with the cartridge just resting on the vinyl and the motor turning. And then the question becomes is it possible to deal with the issue with the motor mounts. "

I'm going to try Mister Pigs suggestion quoted here as a first step later today. Maybe I can also find a simple stethoscope and check other things. From all the suggestions that I've been receiving, and as in what others have done and the video link, the motor isolation ranks highest on the list as the most likely problem.
Click to expand...

This test has been done. There is no doubt.... my well known hum is directly from the motor. Actually Mister Pigs suggestion is pretty much the same as the stethoscope and screw driver tests, only using an amplification system.

So I'm still believing the conversion to mkii posts and springs is probably warranted?? Any one else agree.

I'm inclined not to rebuild the motor yet as I'm a believer in "if it's not broke.... don't fix it" ..... I'm not convinced yet that the motor needs rebuilding... although I'll keep an open mind about that.
 
AudioJag said:
I'm inclined not to rebuild the motor yet as I'm a believer in "if it's not broke.... don't fix it" ..... I'm not convinced yet that the motor needs rebuilding... although I'll keep an open mind about that.
Click to expand...

50 years is a long time without changing the oil in a motor. Would you do that with your car?

- How long does it take the motor to get up to playing speed from a cold start?
- How long from a cold start until the pitch reaches 100%? Does it drift once it gets up to 100%?

Please time it and report back.
 
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Used the stethoscope around the table with the platter off motor running. Motor makes plenty of noise when scope placed on mounting pins. Idler wheel also makes some noise (cleaned the post and base and bushings and re-oiled slightly). Still makes some noise. Put platter back and re-checked around table, could here the idler wheel and possibly the motor as well best from the middle arm board screw.....
 
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