Thorens TD160 E no low frequencies - Help needed

[ChronoSee]

For now, turn down the bass on your preamplifier, or the volume until it is gone. Or, if you have a subsonic filter on the preamp, turn that on to keep those subsonic frequencies out of the signal. That is what is causing your woofers to "flap," and will more than likely take some more investigating to resolve.

I know, less bass is what you originally had an issue with, but things are sounding a lot better already so let's be patient and tackle one thing at a time. This condition can damage your woofers so be forewarned!!

Often, the turntable placed on a wall shelf that decouples it from the floor, which is where much of that subsonic (but not all.....) frequency/energy is coming from, can solve the problem. The Thorens spring suspended tables are kind of known to be very susceptible to such stuff.....footfalls are also common if you have springy floors. If you are on a concrete floor, that will help but it can then still be a mismatch between cartridge and tonearm but not for certain either.

As said, there are many variables to consider when you run into the subsonic flapping woofer problem and we'll tackle this when you have everything wired correctly. Before that, we're just guessing so might as well solve the problems we've already identified and then move forward.

Exactly! We've come a long way in a very short time . I'm getting a little ahead of myself . I'll do the rewiring, clean the contacts and get to rest of the stuff.

Thank you for the warning! I'm using the subsonic filter.
I plan on doing some upgrades to the base of the TT and adding "feet" to it, if you have any recommendation it would be great. The TT will stand on ALEX Drawer unit, I'll try to isolate it with some rubber feet from the ground. I'm happy for the journey ahead

 

[tnsilver]

The Thorens TD-160 is a suspended turntable. The platter and tonearm are mounted to a sub-chassis that is sprung from the main deck (chassis). It often requires tuning. Check out the analog department web-site "Thorens" section for suspension tuning details. It's no big deal - but you need to know what you're doing.

RCA cables don't usually run from phono-stage to speakers, unless with some self amplified speakers and special cases of phono-stages. With the normal audio chain of turntable -> phono-stage -> amp -> speakers, we try to limit the length, and extend the quality of the RCA cables running from the TT to the phono-stage. It's less than optimal to use more than 6 feet. With an amplified signal, such as between the amp and speakers, we're less concerned.

 

[Fishead]

Check out the analog department web-site "Thorens" section

Yep, that's a good idea and I provided him with that link earlier.....

I think we really need to know more about his setup because as you pointed out, if he's running his phonostage to some powered speakers it's a whole 'nuther deal.....

 

[ChronoSee]

You don't want to increase the length of the RCAs that are coming out of your turntable. Instead, move your phonostage close enough to the turntable that the length of the current RCAs is sufficient. Then, you can get longer RCAs to go from your phonostage to your preamp/amp/receiver. Can you please describe the components in your system, all of them? Also, yeah, turntable right in front of the speaker is a disaster waiting to happen. You want the turntable as far away as possible from the speakers and isolated, as in a very solid base as @tnsilver has suggested or better, I think, a wall shelf that decouples it from the floor as I previously suggested. But for now, just get the turntable away from the speaker! That will help a bunch. And, the subsonic filter on your phonostage put in the ON position should take care of everything but, ideally, you would want to deal with the subsonic frequency issue through isolation of the turntable. It's complicated, I know, but you will get there amigo.....

Grado Green 1 -> Thorens TD160 E -> Pro-Ject Tubo Box S2 -> Triangle AIO Twin Speakers
Thorens to phonostage RCA (3,2 feet), phonostage to speakers (8.2 feet) - that's the length I need to make it work.

Yep, that's a good idea and I provided him with that link earlier.....

I think we really need to know more about his setup because as you pointed out, if he's running his phonostage to some powered speakers it's a whole 'nuther deal.....

Yup, I'm running powered speakers .
I'll make sure to go through that website and educate myself

 

[Fishead]

Ah......so now the picture becomes more clear! Hopefully you are not using bluetooth to get your signal to the speakers and instead are using some RCAs from the phonostage to them? Tell us that is how you are connecting, or not?

 

[ChronoSee]

Ah......so now the picture becomes more clear! Hopefully you are not using bluetooth to get your signal to the speakers and instead are using some RCAs from the phonostage to them? Tell us that is how you are connecting, or not?

Yes, I'm running RCA from phono stage to line-in on speakers. Right now I have a (Melodika) 1,6 feet RCA, that's why TT has to stand very close to the speakers. I want to order a longer one, so I can move phono stage away, and run longer RCA from it to speakers.

 

[Fishead]

Yes, that is absolutely necessary! At least get your turntable off to the side of the speaker.....you have 1 meter of RCAs from turntable to phonostage, then only 1/2 meter from phonostage to speaker so total that is about 4.75 feet.....should be enough if off to one side and maybe a little behind the speaker to do for now until you get longer RCAs. Try it.....

Is there a downside for running long RCA from phono stage to speakers? I want to order "Melodika Purple Rain MD2R25" 2,5m long. Or do you guys have something cheaper to recommend?

Up to a point long RCA from phono stage to speaker is OK, I think no more than 9 feet though is where I would stop. So, you connect the phonostage to one speaker, and how does the signal go over to the other speaker?

You can get pretty decent RCAs from a site called Monoprice.....check it out:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=18534

Make sure you check the 6 ft. box, not the 3 ft. box. Not sure if you can get those over where you are.....which is where? Where do you live?

 

[ChronoSee]

Yes, that is absolutely necessary! At least get your turntable off to the side of the speaker.....you have 1 meter of RCAs from turntable to phonostage, then only 1/2 meter from phonostage to speaker so total that is about 4.75 feet.....should be enough if off to one side and maybe a little behind the speaker to do for now until you get longer RCAs. Try it.....

The powered speaker is on the right side, the turntable has to stay on the left. It's a whole setup not really possible to change. I can get something temporarily, so I can put TT on the right, but unfortunately it can't stay there.

Up to a point long RCA from phono stage to speaker is OK, I think no more than 9 feet though is where I would stop. So, you connect the phonostage to one speaker, and how does the signal go over to the other speaker?

Just standard 3m speaker cable (provided with the speakers )

You can get pretty decent RCAs from a site called Monoprice.....check it out:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=18534

Make sure you check the 6 ft. box, not the 3 ft. box. Not sure if you can get those over where you are.....which is where? Where do you live?

I wish I could! I live in Poland, I can get something like this:

Melodika MD2R25G Kabel 2xRCA - 2x RCA Gunmetal - 2,5m cena

Melodika MD2R25G Kabel 2xRCA - 2x RCA Gunmetal - 2,5m 5907609007735 - Melodika MD2R25G Kabel 2xRCA - 2x RCA Gunmetal - 2,5m MD2R to zdecydowanie najpopularniejszy kabel 2xRCA na polskim rynku w swoim segmencie cenowym... - kliknij po najlepszą cenę w sklep.RMS.pl!

sklep.rms.pl

It's approximately 70$, if that's overkill I can find something cheaper. This one is considered good and "cheap for spec" in Poland.

 

[Fishead]

I see.....I'm from Poland too!!! Long ago, my great, great grandparents on father's side emigrated to the US to Baltimore, Maryland. Novak is my last name amigo. Nice to meet you!

Yeah, that might be a bit overkill for what you are doing there. I would think a standard set of RCAs, over here we'd pay about $20 or less for them would be plenty good in this scenario. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

Question: did the subsonic filter help with the woofer fluttering and if so, did it take away all the bass or is there still enough left to satisfy?

 

[63pontiacgp]

Love me a happy ending!

Mike

 

[ChronoSee]

I see.....I'm from Poland too!!! Long ago, my great, great grandparents on father's side emigrated to the US to Baltimore, Maryland. Novak is my last name amigo. Nice to meet you!

Yeah, that might be a bit overkill for what you are doing there. I would think a standard set of RCAs, over here we'd pay about $20 or less for them would be plenty good in this scenario. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

Question: did the subsonic filter help with the woofer fluttering and if so, did it take away all the bass or is there still enough left to satisfy?

The filter was on from the start. I don't see any wobbling in the woofer. The low frequencies just extend too low in some fragments of the records. I'll make an update after moving the table .

And thanks again for the help today!

 

[Fishead]

That surprises me.....if the subsonic filter was indeed "ON" then it should have prevented that woofer flapping or rumbling as some call it. It has a -18dB at 20Hz specification which I would think is enough to prevent this.....

 

[gadget73]

Is there a way to measure capacitance of cables?

if you know what kind of cables they are and can look up the spec, its just capacitence per length x length. Otherwise you use a meter that can measure capacitence.

honestly none of this is super critical, about all that happens from improper loading is it might sound worse than it should. You should be able to change the loading switches without turning anything off, just turn the volume all the way down.

 

[ChronoSee]

if you know what kind of cables they are and can look up the spec, its just capacitence per length x length. Otherwise you use a meter that can measure capacitence.

honestly none of this is super critical, about all that happens from improper loading is it might sound worse than it should. You should be able to change the loading switches without turning anything off, just turn the volume all the way down.

I have no idea what cables are there. They might have been replaced. I've tried listening on few settings. All switches off, so 47pF, sounds best to me. All other compared to digital are flatter sounding. The lowest setting sounds fullest and rich. It makes no sens, I thought more capacitance, more rolled off high frequencies.

 

[gadget73]

Too much tends to make a hump in the upper midrange but roll off the very highest bits.

 

[ChronoSee]

I have some fresh pictures of the inside.

 

[tnsilver]

Well, obviously, the green and red leads from the tonearm are swapped at the wiring hub. But... I fail to recognize the electronics, the tonearm auto-lift, the auto-shutoff... None I've seen before. It looks more like a TD-147 variant than a TD-160, but even so, none of the parts are familiar to me. ...and the way that board is threaded right on top of the sub-chassis spring. Live and learn...

 

[ChronoSee]

Well, obviously, the green and red leads from the tonearm are swapped at the wiring hub. But... I fail to recognize the electronics, the tonearm auto-lift, the auto-shutoff... None I've seen before. It looks more like a TD-147 variant than a TD-160, but even so, none of the parts are familiar to me. ...and the way that board is threaded right on top of the sub-chassis spring. Live and learn...

It's supposed to be TD160 E, can't find much info about it.

 

[tnsilver]

I've never seen one in the flesh.

 

[ChronoSee]

So I fixed the wiring issue. Now TT is sounding correctly with properly attached leads. One issue remained. Left channel is emitting some kind of mid frequency hum. Something like "boom boom boom" every 0,2 sec. It's very obvious when nothing is playing and volume is higher. Additionally when playing, cracks, distortion and pops are coming ONLY from left channel. I checked antiskate, didn't make a difference.