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Tonearm for Denon DL-103

Those were the days, bought my Denon DL-301 MKII for $179, regular price was $329 at the time. Don't think you'll find prices as cheap as Comet Supply on Denon cartridges, was good as it lasted! ;)

Got one for myself.

I should have bought some more for back up at that time. :rolleyes:
 
The DL-103 dates back to 1962. It was designed for contemporary broadcasting industry requirements and as such, it is an effective mass hog. Matching tonearms start at around 16g eff. mass. The 103 begins to shine at about 19g and just never stops *wanting* more. A 15g eff. mass tonearm can make it sound OK'ish but really just hints at how it should be. It simply lacks the stamina (inertia) to tame the DL-103 because it is a very stiff (low compliance) cart. In my experience, not even the classic Thorens TP-16 Mk-I (16.5g eff. mass) has enough of it to make the 103 perform. Slap it on the decade older BTD-12S though, and it's a world of a difference.

Most broadcast tonearms of the 60's and the following consumer grade tonearms of the same class, are a natural match for a Denon DL-103. Those are all high eff. mass tonearms such as the Ortofons designed to handle the proprietary SPU's, the long broadcasting EMT's plus the older Japanese rivals. Now days most of those vintage tonearms are rare and expensive, so people tend to compromise for what's available and affordable. Whatever it is, the DL-103 reputation, the global affection it attracts with the die hard fan club, was not acquired by mounting it on a 15 gram eff. mass tonearm.

The cheapest and most common tonearm that I found to be a surprisingly good match for the DL-103 is the Lenco L-75 / Bogen B-75 / Goldring GL-75 that is estimated at 23 - 24 grams of EM (no one really knows). Unfortunately it's not much good for anything else. It is a rather low end design of a knife edge bearing tonearm with a poorly implemented tension wire counter weight stub coupling mechanism that's very difficult to fix. The rotten v-block mounts issue isn't a show stopper but it's a royal pain to rewire and I find it rather ungraceful. The one thing it does good when intact is play a DL-103 cart.

Another viable but a lesser common option is the Thorens BTD-12S tonearm. Some say it's an EMT inspired design by Thorens and there are two variants of this tonearm. One was supplied with the TD-135 turntable as an on-deck no-armboard version, with the lateral bearings embedded in the turntable chassis, separate from the tonearm. These are common and pop up on eBay every now and then - though not cheap. The other flavor was a stand alone full fledged tonearm with an armboard, lift bank, bearings housing and cable. I'm not sure about it's effective mass but I estimate it at above 19g. It's VTF exertion mechanism goes all the way up to 8 grams and there's no built in anti-skate mechanism (if that's much of an indication). Whether EMT inspired or not, it's one superb tonearm, designed for the lower compliant carts of the era. The successor to the BTD-12S was the TP-14 with the anti-skate weight on string and TP-50 headshell, which can play well with the DL-103 as well.

I'm currently using a BTD-12S on a TD-135 with a bog plain DL-103 cart - and it's near perfect. I'm also using a DL-103R on a TD-124 with an early SME 3012 Series 2 tonearm (stainless steel armtube, larger two parts counter weight). I did not have to modify it but I had to acquire the (missing) second part of the smaller rider weight as an additional lump of mass for my use with the DL-103R. It is a perfect match to my ears.

I've added the tonearms I mentioned already to a list of DL-103 compatible matches that I've compiled off the top of my head. It is nothing but a very partial
and incomplete collection:
  • SME 3012 Series 1 or early Series 2 (12")
  • Thorens BTD-12S / TP-14
  • Acos Lustre GST 1
  • Ortofon RS-212
  • Ortofon RMG-212 / RMG-309 (12")
  • Ortofon SMG-212 (9") / SKG-212 (12")
  • EMT 997 (banana)
  • EMT 929
  • Lenco/Bogen /Goldring L/B/GL-75 tonearm

Hi Tom
You seem like the guy to ask this of.
I have a Micro Trak 303 which is used with a Technics SP-25. the DJ Stanton Gold had a Red Diamond Stylus which was bent up so I swapped out a Empire 66ex which i had. It was similar is size/weight type so I thought it would work. I left all the weights in the headshell. It seems to work fine except I feel it is tracking too heavy. I just weighed it using a powder scale and it comes in at 5.05 grams. I am certain the Stanton Gold was also tracking in this range.

In your post here you are talking terms "eff mass weight". I assume that is not tracking weight? 15g 19g??? So being confused already cause i normally set tracking 1-1.5 grams on other tables, but this animal is completely different. So can I get away with this empire and should I track less?? When playing it was skipping on records my Shur plays fine. Without experimenting and reinventing the wheel what is happening here?? Thanks
 
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Fine. You've done it. My hopes. My dreams. Shattered. Lying broken like so much that we hold dear only to be told it was but folly.
Was it so much to believe that one could economically build a vinyl playback system based on a Denon DL-103 Moving Coil Cartridge. Perhaps one of the longest running products in all of stereodom (Yes, I just made that up. Deal with it.), with a legacy of providing what many have described as "music beyond hi-fi", both for discerning consumers as well as setting a standard for broadcasters. At least in Japan.
The thoughts of the joy of watching that stiff little cantilever manhandle a high mass tonearm while making sweet, sweet music, unparalleled by anything available in its price range gone. Gone. Like a tattered balloon, popped and hanging in shreds forlornly on it's string. Gone. Like the three scoops of ice cream that have fallen from your ice cream cone melting on the hot pavement- and it was your favorite, a combination of chocolate, fudge swirl and peppermint. Yes it's like that.
But I know you took no joy (mostly) in crushing like a rose in your hands, being careful to avoid the thorns, the idea that one could perform such a feat, Because like that rose, there are many thorns, waiting to prick (don't go there!) the unwary. Once down this road of equipment accumulation how does one justify the unique nature of the items needed . After all once you found a proper tonearm at a "God knows what cost" suitable for a DL-103, will it be acceptable for any other cartridge. Is one prepared to dedicate himself to just one cartridge, forsaking all others. Sounds like another "institution" doesn't it? Are we really prepared to go there?!
So, no, (or yes, depends on your perspective linguistically), thanks to you, I will not find myself chasing this dream. There is not to be a Denon DL-103 in my near future. Now, I'm not saying never (just ask Sean Connery about that) but unless an appropriate tonearm first falls into my hands, and I mean at a "how do I say no to that!" price, I will take the advice of one wiser than me (somewhere up there in an earlier post) and one day try a more usable MC cartridge.
Got any suggestions?

I spent considerable time trying to find another cartridge, other than the DL-103 and DL-103R, that would work with AT ATP-12T tonearm. While these tonearm/cartridge combinations work well I wanted to experiment with other cartridges and there are few, if any, new cartridges with a low compliance like the DL-103 and DL-103R. So I replaced the AT tonearm with a Jelco SA-750E that has a lower effective mass (approx 15gr) that allows me to use a wide variety of mid-compliance cartridges that are available today. As I noted earlier all it takes to use the DL-103 and DL-103R is to add a 3gr weight to the Jelco provided 12gr head shell and use the standard Jelco counterweight. So a Jelco tonearm (about $700) will allow you to try out the DL-103 but also allow you to try out a wide variety of other cartridges should you choose. Maybe it isn't so crushing after all.
 
Can you tell me how the counterweight "fine adjustment" works on this? My AT1005ii is actually bastardized with some AT1009 parts I bought from a Japanese eBay seller and it came with the counterweight stub and the little black collar stumped me as to it's function.

Nice table btw. :)

Fine adjustments are done by turning the knob on the rear arm. i don't know how it would work in your specific case. Perhaps a picture could help. BTW, the AT1009 manual may be freely downloaded form the link I've posted above. Thanks for the compliments!
 
Those were the days, bought my Denon DL-301 MKII for $179, regular price was $329 at the time. Don't think you'll find prices as cheap as Comet Supply on Denon cartridges, was good as it lasted! ;)
Yes -- I managed to miss out on buying a 301ii for that money... one snoozes, one loses. :(
Folks' experience with Comet was all over the map at the time, but I got terrific service from them. It was manifestly unclear ;) whether their Denon stock was grey market, fell off the truck, or legit -- but, boy howdy, was the price right.

PS At sticker price, I, too, would suggest going with one of the pricier and somewhat more audiophile-friendly DL-103 variants if DL-103 lushness is what one wants for one's phono reproduction (FWIW).
 
Fine adjustments are done by turning the knob on the rear arm. i don't know how it would work in your specific case. Perhaps a picture could help. BTW, the AT1009 manual may be freely downloaded form the link I've posted above. Thanks for the compliments!

I looked over the manual and without having the actual 1009 counterweight in hand it didn't make a lot of sense. I'm referring to the little black collar with the "z-ish" shape logo on it.

For mine, I took the pivot and arm assembly of the 1009 and simply disconnected the 1009 counterweight stub and installed the 1005 one I had. I took a risk on a 1005 on ebay cheap and when it arrived it was in less than stellar condition so I bought the incomplete 1009 arm to make one whole setup that wasn't damaged.
 
Yes -- I managed to miss out on buying a 301ii for that money... one snoozes, one loses. :(
Folks' experience with Comet was all over the map at the time, but I got terrific service from them. It was manifestly unclear ;) whether their Denon stock was grey market, fell off the truck, or legit -- but, boy howdy, was the price right.

PS At sticker price, I, too, would suggest going with one of the pricier and somewhat more audiophile-friendly DL-103 variants if DL-103 lushness is what one wants for one's phono reproduction (FWIW).

Like my aunt always says "You snooze, You lose". ;) If I remember correctly I received my DL-301 MKII in about 4 weeks. Some people had to wait months to get theirs!

Yes, mount a DL-103 in a metal body, retip it with a fine line, microline, etc., stylus. You have a real audiophile cartridge! :music:
 
I sawed off the threads of an SL1200 supplemental counterweight, about 10g and attached it to my headshell with a tiny blip of Blu Tak. Also needed to deploy the extra counterweight on the tonearm of my Denon VL12 and yes, the +20g extra mass makes the bass sing on the DL-103.
 

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An older but timely thread resurrected I see. I'm in the process of putting together a two arm TT using a Victor TT 71 motor, Victor CL-P2 constrained layer plinth and a set of custom machined armboards that I built. The arm in the rear is a Audio Technica ATP12T, a heavy broadcast arm perfect for my Denon DL-103.
The arm on the right side will be a Victor UA-7045 that I just won on Yahoo Buyee auction from Japan. Should be here in a few weeks. I have some modded DL-103 and DL-103S that will mount on that tonearm.
Currently my stock DL-103 resides on my JVC (Victor) QL-A7 and it sounds rather stunning on that table.
After listening to the QL-A7 for awhile I set out to build a TT around the DL-103 cartridge to see how good can it get. I like the Denon cartridge that much.

BillWojo
 
I, too am a big 103 fan.

I have two stock 103's, a stock 103R, and a Zu 103 MkII Grade2. One of the 103's and one 103R sit in aluminum cartridge caps.

They all like 12" low/med compliance arms at about 30g (incl. headshell) effective mass.
 
There's a relatively cheap mod for the DL103; it's a machined aluminum cap that fits over the stock cartridge, no prying open or glueing required.

Improves the tonal clarity and soundstage in the treble. Highly recommended.
 
Funny thing (depending on easily amused how you are) I struggled to find an appropriate tonearm for a DL-103r. Finally settled on an A-T 1005 II (with the lift)- has a decent EM for this cartridge, 19- 20 gms. Only to recently find out the Premier (Sumiko) MMT tonearm which I've owned since the '80's is 20 gms
All this being said, I actually haven't got around to using any of it. Just another down side to being a hoarder.

EDIT: Should have qualified appropriate with affordable.
 
Hi ctjetta , You don't say if you actually have the 103 or are thinking about buying one.
If you are looking to buy one consider buying a S/H 103D or 103S, then try either out & if you like then when needed have it re-tipped with a new stylus. These two cart's are considered the best sounding of the range & unlike the standard 103/103R, they are medium compliance so will work with most medium mass arms.
It you have already got one then consider a Temaad 12'' arm, which was originally designed specifically for the Denon 103 & Koetsu cartridge & of course other low compliance cartridges. Now there range covered E/Masses from 14 - 24 grams & lengths from 10.5 to 16 inches.

Cheers
 
Want effective mass get a Fidelity Research FR-64s at 34 grams. Of course, there went the budget as these are about 1500 plus two bills for the adjustable height mount and massive attaching nut. A very nice tonearm.
 
Want effective mass get a Fidelity Research FR-64s at 34 grams. Of course, there went the budget as these are about 1500 plus two bills for the adjustable height mount and massive attaching nut. A very nice tonearm.

Might sell mine soon.... Maybe. I never rated the Ortofon SPU with it, the FR-7 on the other hand is just gorgeous on it ;)
 
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