The energy input into the inner tube is dissipated as heat. Not oscillating like a spring.
Turntable Isolation platforms?
- Thread starter jleon92f
- Start date
The energy input into the inner tube is dissipated as heat. Not oscillating like a spring.
melofelo
Addicted Member
:yes:..some of the input energy is converted to heat...not all
if it did...cars wouldn't need suspension springs AND shock absorbers..
the inflated tyres would do all the vibration absorbtion from the road underneath...and also absorb the vibration from the the car itself once the springs it rests on oscillate...
the tyres don't because they can't...
inflated tubes made of elasticated material bounce and vibrate once the material containing the pressurised air is inflated to an elastic state...'elastic' meaning storing unreleased potential energy...compressed air itself will also transmit vibration into whatever is containing it. and keeping it compressed...its called a shock wave...
apply kinetic energy( in the form of vibration)..and yes some of it will be absorbed as heat...the majority of it will pass through a sprung system as kinetic energy...
its why inner tubes are made of rubber and inflated with air not water...they act as both suspension and damper for vibration...
its why bicycles use them...and why a sprung saddle is more comfortable than a fixed one...it filters out the vibration being transmitted from an inflated tube through the frame it is connected to...
some suspended turntables incorporate a bit of foam in the springs..it acts as a damper to the spring...some don't..
how this affects suspended turntables sonically is open to experimentation of course...but i think the effect is still different for a fixed plinth design and a suspended one...
if it did...cars wouldn't need suspension springs AND shock absorbers..
the inflated tyres would do all the vibration absorbtion from the road underneath...and also absorb the vibration from the the car itself once the springs it rests on oscillate...
the tyres don't because they can't...
inflated tubes made of elasticated material bounce and vibrate once the material containing the pressurised air is inflated to an elastic state...'elastic' meaning storing unreleased potential energy...compressed air itself will also transmit vibration into whatever is containing it. and keeping it compressed...its called a shock wave...
apply kinetic energy( in the form of vibration)..and yes some of it will be absorbed as heat...the majority of it will pass through a sprung system as kinetic energy...
its why inner tubes are made of rubber and inflated with air not water...they act as both suspension and damper for vibration...
its why bicycles use them...and why a sprung saddle is more comfortable than a fixed one...it filters out the vibration being transmitted from an inflated tube through the frame it is connected to...
some suspended turntables incorporate a bit of foam in the springs..it acts as a damper to the spring...some don't..
how this affects suspended turntables sonically is open to experimentation of course...but i think the effect is still different for a fixed plinth design and a suspended one...
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melofelo
Addicted Member
removing your shock absorbers from your car and leaving the springs in place will give a good demonstration of how a tyre inflated to any psi sufficient to support /isolate the mass of the vehicle from an undulating rolling road transmits vibration to the car itself...
expect increased and uneven tyre wear though...plus a bouncy and bumpier ride... :scratch2:
expect increased and uneven tyre wear though...plus a bouncy and bumpier ride... :scratch2:
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wushuliu
Super Member
On top of the plywood board, place a 25mm or 1" marble or ball bearing into a concave plastic furniture cup.
Well I got the same Slip N Grip from HD, except the ones they have a small hole in the center of the cup. The 1/2" and 1" marbles I have of course tend to center on top of the hole. Think this is a deal breaker?
wushuliu
Super Member
Below is a pic of my SL-1200/inner tube setup. Currently I am using an Ikea Lack table top as the platform.
I A/B'd many different variations. With and without Stock feet, brass cones, platform, no platform, marble blocks, fluid damper, etc. Pretty tiring, but as I do not have a firm grasp of the actual physics involved that means I have to rely on my ears
.
The main table is an Ikea Lack coffeetable. My floors are carpeted. Previously the 1200 was on a smaller lack table with wood screws on its feet per Ken Lyons' recommendation in his many posts on the lack as being an inexpensive but effective platform for TTs. I used the cones and marble blocks for that setup and it sounded superb
.
Surprisingly, after listening to all the different combos, the cones/blocks still brought for the best sound to my ears on top of the inner tube. The stock feet are okay, but the mids were a little congested and the low frequencies were a bit muddy.
Regardless of which foot combo was used, when using the inner tube upper mids and HF response was clear and quiet. The mids and lower did not clear up until the marble and cones were used together.
Another surprise was the KAB fluid damper: Using the inner tube platform I've come to the conclusion that the damper is overkill for it. Dynamics are smothered, music sounds lifeless. Sounds overdamped. Took it off and now we're cookin' with gas. Sound is clean, clear, bass is tight.
Not sure if the current performance is better than the smaller lack table setup with wood screws but it's certainly equal, so I'll probably have to mod this table as well at some point to see if there's further improvement.
Later in the week I'll try out the bearing-cups in lieu of the cones/blocks on top of the inner tube but I'm concerned about the weight distribution as I think the 1200 is heavier in one corner more than the others.
The inner tube setup certainly looks cool. like the TT is levitating!
I A/B'd many different variations. With and without Stock feet, brass cones, platform, no platform, marble blocks, fluid damper, etc. Pretty tiring, but as I do not have a firm grasp of the actual physics involved that means I have to rely on my ears
.The main table is an Ikea Lack coffeetable. My floors are carpeted. Previously the 1200 was on a smaller lack table with wood screws on its feet per Ken Lyons' recommendation in his many posts on the lack as being an inexpensive but effective platform for TTs. I used the cones and marble blocks for that setup and it sounded superb
.Surprisingly, after listening to all the different combos, the cones/blocks still brought for the best sound to my ears on top of the inner tube. The stock feet are okay, but the mids were a little congested and the low frequencies were a bit muddy.
Regardless of which foot combo was used, when using the inner tube upper mids and HF response was clear and quiet. The mids and lower did not clear up until the marble and cones were used together.
Another surprise was the KAB fluid damper: Using the inner tube platform I've come to the conclusion that the damper is overkill for it. Dynamics are smothered, music sounds lifeless. Sounds overdamped. Took it off and now we're cookin' with gas. Sound is clean, clear, bass is tight.
Not sure if the current performance is better than the smaller lack table setup with wood screws but it's certainly equal, so I'll probably have to mod this table as well at some point to see if there's further improvement.
Later in the week I'll try out the bearing-cups in lieu of the cones/blocks on top of the inner tube but I'm concerned about the weight distribution as I think the 1200 is heavier in one corner more than the others.
The inner tube setup certainly looks cool. like the TT is levitating!
Attachments
Yes. The cups cannot have holes in them, the ball has to be free to move (microscopically, that is) and the hole will prevent them from doing that.
The bottom has to be as perfectly concave as possible.
Try Orchard Supply, that's where I those Shepherd furniture cups. I don't see them at Home Depot.
I couldn't find those cups without the center holes either. So after a little further searching I found these.....cups
They're working like a charm.
Hope this helps you.
The first one would work, but nos. 2 and 3 at the bottom in small thumbnails will not...the bottom HAS to be concave.
Below is a pic of my SL-1200/inner tube setup. Currently I am using an Ikea Lack table top as the platform.
I A/B'd many different variations. With and without Stock feet, brass cones, platform, no platform, marble blocks, fluid damper, etc. Pretty tiring, but as I do not have a firm grasp of the actual physics involved that means I have to rely on my ears
The main table is an Ikea Lack coffeetable. My floors are carpeted. Previously the 1200 was on a smaller lack table with wood screws on its feet per Ken Lyons' recommendation in his many posts on the lack as being an inexpensive but effective platform for TTs. I used the cones and marble blocks for that setup and it sounded superb
Surprisingly, after listening to all the different combos, the cones/blocks still brought for the best sound to my ears on top of the inner tube. The stock feet are okay, but the mids were a little congested and the low frequencies were a bit muddy.
Regardless of which foot combo was used, when using the inner tube upper mids and HF response was clear and quiet. The mids and lower did not clear up until the marble and cones were used together.
Another surprise was the KAB fluid damper: Using the inner tube platform I've come to the conclusion that the damper is overkill for it. Dynamics are smothered, music sounds lifeless. Sounds overdamped. Took it off and now we're cookin' with gas. Sound is clean, clear, bass is tight.
Not sure if the current performance is better than the smaller lack table setup with wood screws but it's certainly equal, so I'll probably have to mod this table as well at some point to see if there's further improvement.
Later in the week I'll try out the bearing-cups in lieu of the cones/blocks on top of the inner tube but I'm concerned about the weight distribution as I think the 1200 is heavier in one corner more than the others.
The inner tube setup certainly looks cool. like the TT is levitating!
Wushu,
Glad to hear the inner tube is working for you. When you get some concave cups, try the marbles/ball bearings. I have a 55 lb C-J amp on three cups/balls, so it will support that much weight. If your TT weight distribution is too uneven, go with four roller blocks, one at each corner. I use this setup for my Rega.
dogscanskate
Super Member
Man, this is a really nice thread! Never thought it would garner so much interest and I find it exciting when I read up on what you guys are doing to improve the quality of your gear through simple tweaks that really do help.
Keep it up
!
Keep it up
!These tweaks work because they have a real foundation in physics.
As I mentioned in earlier posts, you should really go read the threads in Steve Hoffman forums about this; especially the I'm all "-isolated-out" thread in the hardware forum:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=179658
As I mentioned in earlier posts, you should really go read the threads in Steve Hoffman forums about this; especially the I'm all "-isolated-out" thread in the hardware forum:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=179658
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wushuliu
Super Member
Well I set up the roller bearing underneath my tt and speakers last night and all I can say is this - and please excuse the language, I'm from NJ:
HOLY F@$%, I can't F$#@%^N believe how @%$& UN@$*&^n-believably $#%@!n much these tweaks have made a difference.
#@*& man!!!
:drool:
I will put picks up later this evening. And I haven't even set everything up properly yet. I have the previously linked cup and steel ball bearings supporting my YP-801BL tt with marble blocks over the bearings. The difference in sound is not subtle. Not only that, it is undeniably better. not just different. Better. I'm not going to bother using all the usual audiophile descriptors as all the previous posts and links to other forums pretty much covers all that.
But wait, there's more.
So after I propped up the tt, I places the bearings underneath me speakers. No marble tile on top as I don't have any more and I can't find any small pieces at HD. So they're supporting the cabs directly (I'm aware that Barry D. believes this is not optimal as wood is soft).
Holy @%$#. This is the single best tweak I've done with my audio setup. Period. I effectively now have brand new speakers. My speaker listening expoerience has now been divided into BB (Before Balls) and AB (After Balls). There's no going back. Again, I don't want to start throwing descriptors around. I'll just say it's like going from drinking Los Angeles tap water to sipping San Pellegrino.
I'm going to give props to Barry over at the SH forum. I mean the guy mastered my Bob Marley albums AND my Yes cd's, so I'm doubly grateful.:ntwrthy: Many thanks to Puma as well.
I'll get some pics up soon. This was the real deal.
Now where can I find marble smaller than 12X12?...
HOLY F@$%, I can't F$#@%^N believe how @%$& UN@$*&^n-believably $#%@!n much these tweaks have made a difference.
#@*& man!!!
:drool:I will put picks up later this evening. And I haven't even set everything up properly yet. I have the previously linked cup and steel ball bearings supporting my YP-801BL tt with marble blocks over the bearings. The difference in sound is not subtle. Not only that, it is undeniably better. not just different. Better. I'm not going to bother using all the usual audiophile descriptors as all the previous posts and links to other forums pretty much covers all that.
But wait, there's more.
So after I propped up the tt, I places the bearings underneath me speakers. No marble tile on top as I don't have any more and I can't find any small pieces at HD. So they're supporting the cabs directly (I'm aware that Barry D. believes this is not optimal as wood is soft).
Holy @%$#. This is the single best tweak I've done with my audio setup. Period. I effectively now have brand new speakers. My speaker listening expoerience has now been divided into BB (Before Balls) and AB (After Balls). There's no going back. Again, I don't want to start throwing descriptors around. I'll just say it's like going from drinking Los Angeles tap water to sipping San Pellegrino.
I'm going to give props to Barry over at the SH forum. I mean the guy mastered my Bob Marley albums AND my Yes cd's, so I'm doubly grateful.:ntwrthy: Many thanks to Puma as well.
I'll get some pics up soon. This was the real deal.
Now where can I find marble smaller than 12X12?...
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wushuliu
Super Member
leepal
Active Member
just took another look at Amazon and they will ship them, although it's a case of the shipping costing twice as much as the actual item(s). Will have to wait until next month I think.
Spectrum77
Super Member
Just a thought... the bottom of soft drink cans are (perfectly?) concave...
