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Turntable Isolation platforms?

all good suggestions here...and well worth trying simply because they are cheap enough to experiment with...:thmbsp:

it might be worth bearing in mind...that what works well for a fixed plinth deck may have an adverse effect on a three point...or semi suspended turntable etc

possible sticky thread ?:scratch2:
 
Not with the granite. It seems to level it's self. But Puma says I need to loose the granite and use 3/4" plywood. I'm on a slab, but I do know I can knock on the stand my TT is on and have no noticable sounds through the speakers now.

It's not really about knocking on the stand; it's about what it will do overall for the quality of sound of your TT (or other component).
 
all good suggestions here...and well worth trying simply because they are cheap enough to experiment with...:thmbsp:

it might be worth bearing in mind...that what works well for a fixed plinth deck may have an adverse effect on a three point...or semi suspended turntable etc

possible sticky thread ?:scratch2:

Would you expand on this?
 
They are door stops from HomeDepot @2.99 for (2) only come in white though. I may change these to cones later$$. Cost was an issue with my decision. The whole project cost $10.:thmbsp::D

Thanks,
John.:music:

Changing to cones later needn't cost too much. Go to a hardware store and look at plumb bobs, those pointed conical things that hang from the bottom of a string to give a "vertical". Some of them are not so suitable, but some are the perfect shape for the purpose, and they come pre-drilled and tapped in the top. Just unscrew the part that is screwed in (that the string normally attaches to) and replace it with a bolt or piece of threaded rod, depending on how you wish to attach it to what. Also --again considering how you are attaching/using it-- you may want to epoxy the bolt/rod into place in the cone. Voila! Conical spikes, done extremely quickly and for dirt-cheap prices, and (depending on the metal they are made from) they work about as well as the expensive kinds!

If the finish on the ones you find isn't that good, you can clamp it in a drill and use fine files, emery cloth, sandpaper, etc... to get it as smooth as you like. But be careful if removing a "chrome" finish; sometimes the metal underneath will be prone to oxidation. If you do remove a finish in the interests of making the whole thing smoother (for a more "finished" and "professional" look), then just paint it. Sonically, these will work fine.
 
all good suggestions here...and well worth trying simply because they are cheap enough to experiment with...:thmbsp:

it might be worth bearing in mind...that what works well for a fixed plinth deck may have an adverse effect on a three point...or semi suspended turntable etc

possible sticky thread ?:scratch2:

Excellent point. As a user of a suspended TT I would welcome knowing which of these techniques (or others if not already mentioned) are best suited to this type of table.
 
Changing to cones later needn't cost too much. Go to a hardware store and look at plumb bobs, those pointed conical things that hang from the bottom of a string to give a "vertical". Some of them are not so suitable, but some are the perfect shape for the purpose, and they come pre-drilled and tapped in the top. Just unscrew the part that is screwed in (that the string normally attaches to) and replace it with a bolt or piece of threaded rod, depending on how you wish to attach it to what. Also --again considering how you are attaching/using it-- you may want to epoxy the bolt/rod into place in the cone. Voila! Conical spikes, done extremely quickly and for dirt-cheap prices, and (depending on the metal they are made from) they work about as well as the expensive kinds!

If the finish on the ones you find isn't that good, you can clamp it in a drill and use fine files, emery cloth, sandpaper, etc... to get it as smooth as you like. But be careful if removing a "chrome" finish; sometimes the metal underneath will be prone to oxidation. If you do remove a finish in the interests of making the whole thing smoother (for a more "finished" and "professional" look), then just paint it. Sonically, these will work fine.

That is a Good idea, never would have thought of that. I may even have a few in my tool box.

Thanks,
John.:music:
 
I have been very happy with my Yamaha turntable.

Link http://www.thevintageknob.org/YAMAHA/YPD8/YPD8.html

There have never been any issues with subsonic feedback or any kind of audio feedback with this solid wood turntable. If you are having human noise from the floors and living area getting into your playback, you may want to consider moving your listening room to the basement with concrete flooring.

Fred
 
re suspended turntables...most of the inbuilt isolation system focuses on separating the turntable base from the suspended part of the plinth that carries the platter and tonearm...placing something like an inner tube underneath can upset the levelling of the turntable due to uneven weight distribution on a compliant platform...the suspension may not work as well as intended if the springs disconnecting the subchassis are not bouncing as vertically as possible...

furthermore...adding a 'springy' compliant base such as an inflated tube under a 'sprung' subchassis design may counteract the damping effect of the suspension and actually extend the time it takes to absorb and dampen external vibrations...

sorry for my non scientific explanation...its a bit like adding one spring to another...you create an energy feedback loop that takes longer to stop...so in effect you can end up adding vibration instead of removing it...

imagine bouncing a car suspension while it is on hard ground...the shock absorbers and suspension spring absorbs the shock in minimal time...place the car on a trampoline and bounce it again..and both car and trampoline takes longer to settle...

there's a fairly interesting post in the following link which gives some tips on isolation methods for suspended vs fixed plinth designs...

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/68488.html
 
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I have been very happy with my Yamaha turntable.

Link http://www.thevintageknob.org/YAMAHA/YPD8/YPD8.html

There have never been any issues with subsonic feedback or any kind of audio feedback with this solid wood turntable. If you are having human noise from the floors and living area getting into your playback, you may want to consider moving your listening room to the basement with concrete flooring.

Fred

That IS a Beautiful TT! I did not know that Yamaha made such awesome looking decks.
Thanks for sharing,
John.:music:
 
all good suggestions here...and well worth trying simply because they are cheap enough to experiment with...:thmbsp:

it might be worth bearing in mind...that what works well for a fixed plinth deck may have an adverse effect on a three point...or semi suspended turntable etc

possible sticky thread ?:scratch2:

I assume the thorens td-166 is a 3 point suspended.

I found that spiked feet on the MDF bottom sapped away all the low end.

when I modded the bottom to incorporate the squash balls as feet, all the low end came back, and seemed more controlled.


I got the idea for my mod from the "mission isoplat" which is an mdf board, with sorbothane half sphere feet.

you could easily build a component isolator using an 18"x24" 3/4" mdf or russian birch ply, add 4 squares about 3"x3"x3/4" on each corner, and use a hole cutter to cut the holes to put squash balls into.
 
We have several marble pastry boards given to us.
One of them measuring 12" X 18" is being used to support one of the turntables.
Dang,I had to buy mine.:tears: The local discount carpet house has a big stack of these,I bought one to check it out.$9.95 -18X18X1/2. I think I'll go back Friday,and pick up 3 more.TT or a flexi rack:scratch2:...........flexi_002.jpg
 
re suspended turntables...most of the inbuilt isolation system focuses on separating the turntable base from the suspended part of the plinth that carries the platter and tonearm...placing something like an inner tube underneath can upset the levelling of the turntable due to uneven weight distribution on a compliant platform...the suspension may not work as well as intended if the springs disconnecting the subchassis are not bouncing as vertically as possible...

furthermore...adding a 'springy' compliant base such as an inflated tube under a 'sprung' subchassis design may counteract the damping effect of the suspension and actually extend the time it takes to absorb and dampen external vibrations...

sorry for my non scientific explanation...its a bit like adding one spring to another...you create an energy feedback loop that takes longer to stop...so in effect you can end up adding vibration instead of removing it...

imagine bouncing a car suspension while it is on hard ground...the shock absorbers and suspension spring absorbs the shock in minimal time...place the car on a trampoline and bounce it again..and both car and trampoline takes longer to settle...


http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/68488.html

Your non-scientific explanation is, with all due respect, but not too surprisingly, not what I would call accurate.

You don't need to add an inner tube underneath a board for sprung subchassis type turntables such as a Linn-Sondek, Systemdek, Michell Gyro or Gyrodec, Avid, etc. Their spring suspension systems perform the function of the inner tube in acting as a seismic filter. The inner tube setup is for rigid plinth type turntables such Rega, Music Hall, Pro-Ject, entry level Clearaudio, etc; in this context, it performs the same function as a spring-loaded TT, but not by acting as a spring. The key thing to understand here is the the inner tube and the springs on suspended TTs are two different ways of performing the same FUNCTION, which is ISOLATION. This is NOT the same as saying that the inner tube is working like a spring. It is actually working more like a damper, whose function is to damp oscillations. This is why the air pressure in the inner tube should be quite low, so that it does NOT act like a spring, but as a damper (like what we mistakenly refer to as a shock absorber).

The function of the inner tube is not to act as a spring, but as a filter for subsonic seismic resonances. The subsonic seismic resonances that this "air bearing" damps are low in frequency, 3-12 Hz, small in amplitude and therefore, difficult for us to sense physically. But they are there, and isolating not only the TT, but the preamp, amp, CD player, etc from them produces big gains in the quality of your sound system. You will also gain futher improvements in this direction if you place all your components on "roller blocks" of the type I describe, and show photos of, in early in this thread. In this application, the roller blocks act as filters for horizontal and rotational subsonic seismic resonances, and the air bearing acts as a filter for vertical resonances. These resonances acts as forces and your system, inducing vibration, which then induces noise into in your electrical circuits, increasing your noise floor, and decreasing S/N. Remember that forces are vector quantitites, and therefore, have magnitude AND direction. The function of these "filters" is to work to attenuate these resonances with respect to direction as well amplitude (the magnitude dimension of a force vector). This makes the functional response of your system more robust to the effects of noise factors in the manner espoused by Toguchi, et. al. in his pioneering work in Robust Design and Robust Design DOE.
 
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ok...so if my turntable is a suspended one, should I still try the inner tube set up? Or is it better to have the turntable on a board supported with the ball bearing/furniture cups and no inner tube?

Please, not too much scientific explanation as I'm a bit thick.:o
 
ok...so if my turntable is a suspended one, should I still try the inner tube set up? Or is it better to have the turntable on a board supported with the ball bearing/furniture cups and no inner tube?

Please, not too much scientific explanation as I'm a bit thick.:o

Try it, for the money, if it works for you great, if it don't, you haven't lost much!:thmbsp:
 
ok...so if my turntable is a suspended one, should I still try the inner tube set up? Or is it better to have the turntable on a board supported with the ball bearing/furniture cups and no inner tube?

Please, not too much scientific explanation as I'm a bit thick.:o

The latter set-up is what you want for your TT.
 
i agree my explanation isn't entirely accurate and i can't say with certainty what sonic effect placing an innertube under a sprung suspended turntable will have...

i'm grateful to the earlier poster puma cat :yes: for shedding more light on the effect of an inflated tube type isolation on a suspended design...and it was my own suspicion that suspended turntables suchs as linns, AR. thorens etc may not benefit from this type of isolation device in the same way as fixed plinth designs that have no suspension at all...

I merely wanted to make a note that the isolation effect such a compliant/bouncy/sprung/damping device may have on a suspended turntable might be different to that of a fixed plinth design..

my initial perception of the inner tube device used under a suspended design...rightly or wrongly... was that..

air in an inner tube is held in a state of compression at any pressure that inflates the tube beyond its surface rubber's unstretched state...thus it will act as both spring and damper much more than a typical shock absorber that works by compressing air within a more rigid enclosure...

the external energy that is absorbed by the innertube 'has' to go somewhere if the material that contains the compressed air has elastic properties...

...so in practice it may indeed act as much like a spring as it might a damper...dependent to some degree on air pressure of course...

squeeze a balloon once and it will resume shape immediately...squeeze it 10 times a second and you have a vibration device...that will vibrate anything it is connected to...

in some cases a suspended turntable may need its base connected more rigidly to a stiff surface to allow an energy drain route from the inbuilt suspension itself...

this may be how the turntable's own isolation suspension system was designed to function best..

its just my thought on what seems to be an interesting area for research...

i'm open to all new ideas and affordable experiments though as long as the resultant sound is better...regardless of which method is the more 'scientifically correct'..:yes:
 
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