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What Do you All think of Electro Static Speakers

I drive a set of Martin Logan QuestZ with Bryston 7B amplifiers, they sound frickin' sweet and most people stare in wild wonder about where the sound is coming from.
 
I had a couple of pairs of Martin Logan's. They were very clear and the sound was awesome if you were in the sweet spot. They are not so great if you are out of the sweet spot. Good for critical listening but not for a party. Also not so good for listening while doing chores.
 
I have owned acoustats and now own Quad esl's, ESL 63 USA Monitors and Beveridge electrostatics.

All have limitations in one sense or another but so do any other speaker. Most of these will embarrass any cone speaker for midrange clarity and dynamic response or quickness.

The Beveridges will challenge many modern designs period. I have owned electrostatics for over 30 years and while I've tried to change teams- cone speakers never won for me.

It's easy to get them wrong . You need commitment financially and with real estate to let them breathe. Magnepans- sorry are not electro stats and while they have their virtues IMO can never approach delicacy of 'stats.


Everyone should hear a good working pair in the right environment.
 
I've played with the Magneplanars. Anything from a Tympanni to old MG I. But I've always to have one of the estat designs. Acoustat is the one that intrigues me the most.
 
Glass Prison said:
I've played with the Magneplanars. Anything from a Tympanni to old MG I.
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It was hearing tri-amped T-IIIs in '74 that initially convinced me that dipolar line sources created the most lifelike presentation for the kind of music I favor.

Glass Prison said:
Acoustat is the one that intrigues me the most.
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They are extremely rugged and can be found for sale from time to time.

Acoustat made about a dozen variations depending upon the number of panels used (1-8) and their physical arrangement (side by side and/or stacked). The smallest were optionally augmented with dynamic woofers. I started off with the three across model X, updated those to the four across Monitor 4 and eventually used the four panel 2+2 with two panels stacked atop two more. You'll get difference opinions, but I prefer the stacked variations for the most lifelike imaging.

I purchased (really stole) a pair of 1+1s with Blue Medallion transformers two years ago for $350! I replaced the socks with new spandex ones for about $100 and am in the process of getting the transformers updated to the final "Red" medallion status with film caps. As you can see, I use an active sub below 50 hz with them. I actually listen to the garage system more than the main one in good weather. As line sources, they sound very clear even in my neighbor's driveway fifty feet away. Fortunately, they enjoy the music, too. :)

garage1.jpg
 
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Shows how much I know then. Maybe someone could give a quick explanation of the differences between the ribbon speakers like Magnepan and the stats.
 
An electrostatic speaker has no magnets - there's a suspended piece of (conductive) plastic film in a strong electrostatic field (ca. 5000 volts DC). In a push-pull electrostatic speaker, there are two sources of the electrostatic field ("poles", if you will) -- typically perforated metal plates or screens, one on either side of the film diaphragm . The AC audio waveform will cause the film to be alternately attracted to one electrostatic "pole" or the other one -- thus vibrating in sympathy to the original signal -- and making sound. The film can be very low mass - and the electrostatic field can be quite homogeneous - thus the superb transient response of electrostatics.

In essence, it's a big ol' capacitor :-)

As I recall, there's a pretty good explanation at wikipedia.

Good info at www.quadesl.com and www.quadesl.org (entirely unrelated), too
 
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The short- Magnepans are not ribbon speakers either, like was said before Mangepans are planar magnetic speakers. Ribbon speakers are a whole different beast.
 
coonmanx said:
Maybe someone could give a quick explanation of the differences between the ribbon speakers like Magnepan and the stats.
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I'll provide both a short answer and detailed links that go more in depth.

Electrostatic speakers place a mylar diaphragm that has a conductive coating between two grids called stators. A high voltage static charge between 3 kV and 12 kV is placed on the diaphragm. The signal is applied to each stator causing a push-pull effect on the diaphragm causing it to move. Such requires a step up transformer to provide the high voltage bias charge which usually requires AC power.

More about the electrostatic principle

As the name implies, Magneplanar speakers are planar in design, but use a magnetic drive principle. Attached to the diaphragm is a winding wire that carries the signal in the presence of a magnetic field. And most Magneplanar drivers are not true ribbons. Most commonly, that is used for the tweeters only. They are considered quasi-ribbons since they look and work somewhat differently. Perhaps the most well known "pure" ribbon speakers were made by Apogee.

Advantage: doesn't require a step up device like an electrostat
Disadvantage: higher moving mass and there are no true single driver full range versions.

More about Maggies
 
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Had my 1st pair of JansZens in the late mid '60s and from then on until about 2000 always ran stats, principally KLH Nine in multiple array and still have a pair of JansZens needing some caps. Only systems I ever had a problem with was the Infinity 2000A and I went 2 pair of them right after they were introduced. Infinity finally gave up on them as they were having power supply problems, a matter of trying to cost cut the power supply rather than just using the RTR power supply.

I still use a set in the form of Koss ESP9b phones and can not imagine not having some form of stat in my system.

There are/were a number of really good full range stats at reasonable original prices. I really liked the M-L CLS and CLSII as well as all the QUADs. Fultons were over the cliff price wise but, in absolute terms worth every penny if you had enough pennies.

Hybrids are a bit tricky and few I have heard ever seem to really get it right at the crossover and getting the spped of the woofer to match the stat. Early JansZens were one of the best while the later ones Art's company built using accoustic suspension woofers were less well integrated until you got up into the Z824 and 412 HP and bi-amped each. M-L did a good job with some and not so good with others.

While most persons are in awe of the mids and highs of stats, my focus has always been in the bass as far down as they would go. The problem with them is if they go down after some time going back to a dynamic woofer is truly difficult as even good ones sound all but terrible. It took quite a bit of time to retrain my ears to accept a dynamic woofer. For some, a folded horn system is the better way out from stats.
 
chicks said:
This is a marketing whitepaper for a company that builds a particular type of speaker, but it does give an overview of the differences:

http://www.wisdomaudio.com/pdfs/pm_white-paper.pdf
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Yes, that was very informative. It's been a while since my friend had those Magnepans (maybe 1983). If I recall correctly now one of his beefs with them was the lack of bass. Hence his choice of going with the Cornwalls. Of course he could have gotten a larger amp and a subwoofer but decided not to go that way.
 
Dukiedook said:
The short- Magnepans are not ribbon speakers either, like was said before Mangepans are planar magnetic speakers. Ribbon speakers are a whole different beast.
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Just to add to the confusion, some of the newer Magnepans are full-range Quasi-ribbons. Many Magnepan models have used ribbon tweeters for at least 20 years now.
 
I was going to add the fact that in some models they do use ribbon tweeters but figured that might confuse the poster- that and I got lazy mid-post.
 
E-Stat said:
My preference is the Soundlab U-1.

They have flat to 30 hz measured in room response, are capable of playing pretty loudly and at 7 feet tall (they also offer 9 foot tall models) do not present a "balcony" perspective image. The 90 degree faceted panel eliminates the head-in-a-vise challenge.

As single panel dipolar line arrays, the sound field changes very little regardless of where you are in the room. Stand up. Sit down. Close to them. Away from them. In front of them. Behind them.

system2014.jpg
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Maybe it has to do with they cover the entire room wall to wall as well.:D
 
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