What Do you All think of Electro Static Speakers
- Thread starter cshaydude
- Start date
Exactly!Hey now... that's what the "Wall Treatments" are for!!!
The five dark panels on the wall are actually doormats with a nubby cross patterned relief that work as diffusors. While not as efffective as the $400 Skylines found upstairs, those and the three fiberglass filled sound panels do a pretty decent job of controlling slap echo.
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frommerstop
Super Member
I'm sure they help, but that floor must be a a bit reflective, and the car is a bit of a wild card as well!
Look, I understand, I do... I used to have two pairs of Tympani 1Ds hanging from the rafters in a 3,000sqft garage! I didn't mean to come down on your garage system. I realize you are not using that space as a dedicated listening room, and I'm sure you have done what you can to make it work for general listening despite the difficulties such a space involves.
You have to admit though, it's hardly an ideal application for 1+1s... maybe you need something a bit more warmly balanced, like Bozak CGs in there
Look, I understand, I do... I used to have two pairs of Tympani 1Ds hanging from the rafters in a 3,000sqft garage! I didn't mean to come down on your garage system. I realize you are not using that space as a dedicated listening room, and I'm sure you have done what you can to make it work for general listening despite the difficulties such a space involves.
You have to admit though, it's hardly an ideal application for 1+1s... maybe you need something a bit more warmly balanced, like Bozak CGs in there
Well... it is a functional garage frequently found with two cars and a motorcycle in it!
For my "ideal" sound, I simply walk upstairs to the main system and listen to the U-1s.You have to admit though, it's hardly an ideal application for 1+1s... maybe you need something a bit more warmly balanced, like Bozak CGs in there
The objective is to have a similar quality of coherent sound in the garage that sounds the same outside even if cars are home. Previously, I used double New Advents (still have them), but tweeters got blocked (as would be the case with any box speaker) and the sound was muffled. That doesn't happen with eight foot tall full range electrostats!
SimplySound
Kent Engineering & Fondry
It fits nicely between them!I'm sure the motorcycle helps as well!!! Odd angles and all!!!
JoeESP9
ESL's & tubes since 83
I heard a pair of electrostatic speakers in the late 70's, and thought 'not accurate with sound reproduction'. But in fairness, and with current technology, I'd like to give them another listen.
That goes against what many think. Generally ESL's are considered to have a superb midrange. Quad ESL57's (1957 is the year of their introduction) even now are considered by many to have the best midrange of any speaker ever made.
We definitely agree!
Actually, the motor sounds from the S2000 provide the soundtrack.
chicks
Lunatic Member
Not so sure that all ESLs are worth the money, though. The ML Vistas, which are a hybrid, didn't do very well in blind testing vs some far less expensive speakers.
http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2012/05/more-evidence-that-kids-even-japanese.html
I would love to find a blind test of my QUAD ESL-63's vs. conventional speakers, but have never come across any. Best I can find is Dr. Linkwitz using them as his reference while he designed his Orions.
Then there is the matter of whether or not my ears will like them. :scratch2:
JoeESP9
ESL's & tubes since 83
Ahh, ESL63's; ESL57's (almost) with some bass.
A well known and respected speaker designer using them as his reference surely means something.
Having participated in more than a few blind tests in the early 80's (I owned an ABX box) I came to the conclusion that the tests are inconclusive and not worth the effort. In any case, IME, speakers are different enough that blind testing really isn't necessary.
Most of the smaller ML's have always been unsatisfying to me. Although they all have a very good midrange, to me, there has always been a discontinuity with the sound between the esl panel and the woofer. Plus, the quality of the sound from the woofer doesn't come near to that of the esl panel.
JoeESP9
ESL's & tubes since 83
How will you know unless you hear some?
I won't! If the opportunity presents itself, I will give them a listen. :yes: Otherwise, I'll never know.
As a coherency freak, I agree.
Having said that, I'm not sure many dipoles would fare particularly well with the Harman speaker "shuffler" as seen here.
That is quite understandable given my short exchange with Sean Olive who apparently doesn't understand that dipoles frequently require different placement than monopolar boxes.
frommerstop
Super Member
Out of curiosity, have you ever had an opportunity to listen to any di-poles at all? Or, for that matter, Bi-poles like Mirage M1s,M2s, etc? If not, you should really try and check some out, I think you might be impressed with how much of the "omni" sound is really reflected back-wave. Without so much output to the sides, panels can actually be much easier to place in a room than an omni.
I do like omnis for their open sound, but I find a similar affect with bi-poles & di-poles without as many room placement issues. Of course most omnispherical speakers sold today do use at least SOME radiation control, so are not "true" omnis anyway. Speakers like Ohm's current line and your Mirages for example, are very easy to get well set up, that wasn't at all the case with any of the fully (or nearly) omnidirectional speakers like Ohm Fs, or Walcott Omnispheres.
When comparing speakers, it is very important to bear in mind the psycho-acoustic effects that can overwhelm any actual advantage the speaker might or might not have.
When I was selling hi-fi (oh so long ago) I realized that I could pretty much sell any speaker I wanted to by convincing the customer it was obviously better than whatever he'd come in to buy. The one he listens to first is better: the louder one is better: the one with the most obvious (but not wildly boomy) bass is better. Set up to exploit all three and the poor sap is toast.
If one of the speakers is the Quad ELS57, which has pretty much no bass, plays quietly and sounds quieter because of its low distortion, and comes after the Cerwin-Vega or JBL, it is pretty much dead meat. Only if you spend some time actually listening, make sure loudness levels are comparable, and play something that doesn't need bass, AND you sit in the right place and the speakers are far enough away from the back wall and are driven by an amp which can actually drive them without oscillating - then you realize that there is really no comparison. The Quads sound pretty much real, and the others, whatever they are, sound like speakers.
Nowadays, I'd recommend the Sanders Electrostats over the Quads. They go very loud, they use a transmission line for the bass so they actually have some (and it doesn't boom), they are very flat indeed, and they are easier to drive (although they do need a bi-amp system with real power to avoid clipping). They are also just as uncolored and transparent.
When I was selling hi-fi (oh so long ago) I realized that I could pretty much sell any speaker I wanted to by convincing the customer it was obviously better than whatever he'd come in to buy. The one he listens to first is better: the louder one is better: the one with the most obvious (but not wildly boomy) bass is better. Set up to exploit all three and the poor sap is toast.
If one of the speakers is the Quad ELS57, which has pretty much no bass, plays quietly and sounds quieter because of its low distortion, and comes after the Cerwin-Vega or JBL, it is pretty much dead meat. Only if you spend some time actually listening, make sure loudness levels are comparable, and play something that doesn't need bass, AND you sit in the right place and the speakers are far enough away from the back wall and are driven by an amp which can actually drive them without oscillating - then you realize that there is really no comparison. The Quads sound pretty much real, and the others, whatever they are, sound like speakers.
Nowadays, I'd recommend the Sanders Electrostats over the Quads. They go very loud, they use a transmission line for the bass so they actually have some (and it doesn't boom), they are very flat indeed, and they are easier to drive (although they do need a bi-amp system with real power to avoid clipping). They are also just as uncolored and transparent.
chicks
Lunatic Member
Thanks, never heard of Sanders. Definitely like his honesty!
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/products
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/products
I admire the way Sanders make a virtue of a necessity: his pitch that narrow dispersion is to be preferred.