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What Do you All think of Electro Static Speakers

chicks said:
ESL's are popular? Since when? :scratch2: They represent just a tiny fraction of speakers sold, I think...
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They seem to be more popular than omnidirectional speakers with titanium dome tweeters. Which do think I have? (As if you couldn't tell by looking at the gear listed below)
 
chicks said:
ESL's are popular? Since when? :scratch2: They represent just a tiny fraction of speakers sold, I think...
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Yes, popular. They have been in existence longer than the dynamic driver having been patented during the early days when field coil speakers existed and have been used in many applications we seldom think about including table radios. While Peter Walker or Art JansZen, depending on what story you buy into, made the 1st standalone full range electrostatic the technology they used they actually only built on and were not the inventors.

Amongst the high end system owners, the electrostatic speaker whether full range or hybrid holds a decent market share that is and has been sustainable. Martin Logan has outlasted many dynamic speaker companies much more mainstream.

A concept or type of product need not hold a huge market share to be popular. If that were the criteria, then OS/X computers are not popular.
 
Isn't a field coil speaker a dynamic, just that the magnet isn't permanent?

In any event I never heard a stat I thought unlistenable; Christ knows I've heard enough cones, domes, horns and planar magnetics that IMO sounded obnoxious. On the other hand I've also heard cones, domes and horns that equalled stats. No planar magnetics though.

As an aside I've noticed that some in ear speakers are using armature drivers, a type I think was discredited in the 1920s.
 
tomlinmgt said:
When done properly they're magnificent.
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I whole-heartedly agree.

E-Stat said:
My preference is the Soundlab U-1.
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Very nice! I also enjoy the sound of a SoundLab sat - In my case the M-3.
I gotta say, to my ears they do alota things right.

ListeningRoom2.jpg
 
SuperjazzyJa said:
They seem to be more popular than omnidirectional speakers with titanium dome tweeters. Which do think I have? (As if you couldn't tell by looking at the gear listed below)
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Electrostatic speakers can and have been used in omnidirectional designs. There is no reason ESLs cant be arrayed in any manner you like.

The first models that come to my mind would be, the Cosmostatic (can't recall the company that made them) and RtR's DR-1s. They were both hybrids, and the RtR was really only a 360deg panoramic, but the Cosmostatic was very much an omni. I know there have been others, but personally I'm happiest with just a back wave... I think dealing with room reflections from true omnis is a PITA. I had enough of that with Ohm Fs.
 
frommerstop said:
Electrostatic speakers can and have been used in omnidirectional designs. There is no reason ESLs cant be arrayed in any manner you like.

The first models that come to my mind would be, the Cosmostatic (can't recall the company that made them) and RtR's DR-1s. They were both hybrids, and the RtR was really only a 360deg panoramic, but the Cosmostatic was very much an omni. I know there have been others, but personally I'm happiest with just a back wave... I think dealing with room reflections from true omnis is a PITA. I had enough of that with Ohm Fs.
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Then there was Art Janszen's last design, the ERC139 that used small electrostats mounted on a round frame that formed an inverted cone over the upward firing woofer. The prototype and pre-production units I saw and tried were really rough and to my knowledge few if any were actually built. The model number was telling as the targeted price was $139. When we auditioned them there were mixed feelings but universally the shortcomings were easily correctable with some crossover mods and when done the speaker would easily compete with most costing 2-3 times as much except maybe for the bottom octave. I tried to keep the pre-production pair to test the stores' markets but had to surrender them. We ordered a half dozen pair to test the market in each store (and I and an employee each wanted a pair). Sadly, the order never came and some time later, the rep told me not to expect them as the plant had closed down. He would not release the 2 pair he had as he was not sure if a creditor or someone would make a demand for their return.
 
Brian said:
Then there was Art Janszen's last design, the ERC139 that used small electrostats mounted on a round frame that formed an inverted cone over the upward firing woofer. The prototype and pre-production units I saw and tried were really rough and to my knowledge few if any were actually built. The model number was telling as the targeted price was $139. When we auditioned them there were mixed feelings but universally the shortcomings were easily correctable with some crossover mods and when done the speaker would easily compete with most costing 2-3 times as much except maybe for the bottom octave. I tried to keep the pre-production pair to test the stores' markets but had to surrender them. We ordered a half dozen pair to test the market in each store (and I and an employee each wanted a pair). Sadly, the order never came and some time later, the rep told me not to expect them as the plant had closed down. He would not release the 2 pair he had as he was not sure if a creditor or someone would make a demand for their return.
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I've never heard the JansZen ERC139, but I believe that was the first application of what was later to become, the Dennesen tweeter. I have heard Dennesens before, and those little round ESLs were very good drivers!
 
So I heard Martin Logan CLS. Driven by Class-A Threshold. Loved the mid-range. Even with the Heil Tweeter and a subwoofer, however, the dynamics were relatively limited. On a high SPL with complex passages, they clearly struggled. But I'm comparing them with likes of Stradivari Cello which I also heard yesterday. For a small room like mine they might be all I need, with a couple or more of subs. I actually thought the tweeter was even unnecessary. Even the aesthetics were pretty good for ESLs.
 
frommerstop said:
I've never heard the JansZen ERC139, but I believe that was the first application of what was later to become, the Dennesen tweeter. I have heard Dennesens before, and those little round ESLs were very good drivers!
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They were not JansZen but aa new company, ERC that was to be distributed by Dennison. The prototype did not have the Dennison label while the pre-production had either Dennison or "Distributed by Dennison" on the label plus the ERC 139 name. ERC stood for Electrostatic Research Corp or Company, can not remember which, now.

It was interesting how he reduced one problem, that of each tweeter creating a separate hot spot sonically. I had suspected he would increase the number, making the distance between each less but, the damped them with pink tissue paper. Just as effective but poorly implemented on the sample were had and we could not stop laughing. My crew immediately pulled the Superscope catalog and starting pricing systems with the then matching pink lighted dial Superscopes.

Where and in what did you hear the tweeters? From time to time I check a certain site to see if anything shows up as but never have seen a pair under either label. The 139 would be a good compromise for my downsizing project as they are small floorstanding and have those estat tweeter. The JansZen Z410 would be an alternative but very scarce and not nearly as good as the ERC was in the tweeter to woofer crossing.
 
Brian said:
They were not JansZen but aa new company, ERC that was to be distributed by Dennison. The prototype did not have the Dennison label while the pre-production had either Dennison or "Distributed by Dennison" on the label plus the ERC 139 name. ERC stood for Electrostatic Research Corp or Company, can not remember which, now.

It was interesting how he reduced one problem, that of each tweeter creating a separate hot spot sonically. I had suspected he would increase the number, making the distance between each less but, the damped them with pink tissue paper. Just as effective but poorly implemented on the sample were had and we could not stop laughing. My crew immediately pulled the Superscope catalog and starting pricing systems with the then matching pink lighted dial Superscopes.

Where and in what did you hear the tweeters? From time to time I check a certain site to see if anything shows up as but never have seen a pair under either label. The 139 would be a good compromise for my downsizing project as they are small floorstanding and have those estat tweeter. The JansZen Z410 would be an alternative but very scarce and not nearly as good as the ERC was in the tweeter to woofer crossing.
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They were large(ish) bookshelf speakers with 6 ESL tweeters mounted to a plastic semi-sphere, and (i think) an acoustic suspension woofer. A Google search turned up some pictures, apparently they were Dennesen 180s. A local dealer had a pair in on trade many years ago, and I listened to them there. I wasn't really interested in shelf or stand mounted speakers, at the time, but since they had ESL tweeters, I had to check them out. They seemed to be very well integrated with their cone woofer, and I was very impressed with the dispersion... there was a very wide listening window. If I found some today I'd grab them, if only for their uniqueness!
 
talk about a live listening room. By any chance are you preparing to install it into one of your cars like a Miata?
 
I was thinking the same thing. I don't like to criticize a set up without hearing it, but I'm having a hard time imagining those 1+1s working too well in that garage. I like 1+1s, but if anything, even in ideal conditions they tend to sound a bit lean to me. In that space, all I can imagine is a very lean, possibly even echoing sound.

They do look cool though!
 
I love the sound of ESL's but have never owned a pair, it's like coffee, I love the smell but not the taste, ESL's sound good but I don't know that I could live with the limitations.
 
Big fan of ELS. Long time Magnepan (Planar, not ELS) owner. It's funny that after all this time, I have become enamored by big JBLs.

Having said that, I have an older set of Stax Lambda Headphones. The delicacy and detail are staggering.
 
I heard a pair of electrostatic speakers in the late 70's, and thought 'not accurate with sound reproduction'. But in fairness, and with current technology, I'd like to give them another listen. :music:
 
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