What is "natural sound"

[terra1]

I guess if you have had a bad experiance with a well respected product it is not PC to express it.Is thatwhat I'm getting here.I was useing a Yamaha NS integrated,Yamaha NS single drawer CDP and Yamaha NS A200XT tower speakers all bought at the same time and the speakers where all I kept,the rest went back to Best Buy.That was 10 years agld Kenwood stuff from the 70's sounds better to my ear than the newer natural sound.What I heard was bright and dead boaring.Sorry if my impression is differant from yours.

Nah.

You earlier made a general sweeping statement with no backup. Comes across as thread crap. No offense intended.

Now if you had introduced your experience at that time with specific model numbers, it would have provided a foundation for discussion and added value.

As it was, people were just guessing what your statement was based on and provided their own experiences as counterexamples.

Now we have a context for discussion.

You say Kenwood from the 70s sound better compared to 10 year ago Yamahas. That provides a time frame. There are a lot of vintage Kenwood fans as well. The Yamahas that people are raving about are not the 10 year ago Yamahas. I have a CR-800 that sounds pretty good to my ears but that would be from the 70s as well.

I think you will find agreement with many here who will agree that the "vintage" 70s gear offer great value and sound compared to more recent gear from 10 years ago around the BPC period. That's the whole deal with vintage love.

 

[Autobot]

What does BPC mean?
Sorry I really dont know the term.

 

[dread31]

To me the term "Natural Sound" would be the opposite of "Unnatural Sound".

For example;

If you were to fart and what came out of your arse sounded like two metal trash can lids slamming together----that would be unnatural.

Hence, with "Natural Sound", an oboe sounds like an oboe, and a fart sounds like a fart.

Now, for the astute, who realize that the terms manufacturers use to market their wares can sometimes be, well, bull**it, we judge solely on our own opinion of the equipments sound. And don't care what the marketing guru at company X calls it.

If a cheap plastic POS all in one system from the '70s is called "Airline", for example,
does that mean you can hop on it and fly to Cabo for the weekend? I should say not.

At any rate, if it sounds like crap to you, then sell it to someone who disagrees then go out and buy something you like.

That's what I do.

Dave

 

[whoaru99]

What does BPC mean?

Black Plastic Crap

 

[Mark B]

What does BPC mean?
Sorry I really dont know the term.

Cheaply made audio gear is often referred to as black plastic crap. The term originated in the '80's with the proliferation of inexpensive (and inferior sounding) black faced audio gear which was typically constructed with a plastic case rather than aluminum.

 

[Autobot]

Black Plastic Crap

Cheaply made audio gear is often referred to as black plastic crap. The term originated in the '80's with the proliferation of inexpensive (and inferior sounding) black faced audio gear which was typically constructed with a plastic case rather than aluminum.

Thanks for the explanation
I guess then my C-4 is pre BPC.

 

[mashaffer]

Wow, didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest. I just wasn't sure if it was a special line of their gear with some special design features or if it was like "Ram Tough" where we are to presume that all Dodges are Ram tough. Thanks for the explanation and fine humor. Especially liked the "vote for change" line.

mike

 

[reggaenaut]

When is Natural Sound not Natural Sound? I guess it all depends on the decade?

 

[High_Current]

When is Natural Sound not Natural Sound? I guess it all depends on the decade?

yep. Kinda like "have you driven a Ford lately?"

 

[goraman]

Fair enough,It has been to long for me to remember modle numbers,but it wasen't the very top of the line to be fair.

 

[brutal]

Thanks for the explanation
I guess then my C-4 is pre BPC.

C-4 has an anodized aluminum faceplate and top quality build. It was also built early 80's and kicks many a fine pre-amp in the nads.

Definitely pre-BPC." :thmbsp:

 

[Susurus]

Humorous thread! Keep 'em laughing. :thmbsp:

A C-4 is neither plastic nor crap IMHO.

Nice aluminum face, controls. Lights need replacing sometimes and the contacts on the board-side of the selector switcher needs occasional cleaning, and they run hot, but hey!

...I liked mine so much I got a 'nother one. Someday I'll find a C-2a like brutal's...

Another opinion: on the pre- section on the lower-watt x00 Yamahas. They are better than the pre- sections on some other higher-watt famous gear made then. Even some TOTL. Maybe a spinoff thread can start:

"Who made the best PREAMP section inside a vintage receiver?"
:scratch2:

I asked this about the best TUNERS inside of receivers once.

 

[karlo]

don't get the obsession . yamaha and bpc don't belong in the
same post. i've had/owned/own several yamaha receivers....
r-8,r-9, rx385,r-900,m-80 etc ..all were/are fine amps. and all had
ALUMINUM face gear.

bpc is ..............'90's sharp,sanyo,fisher,soundesign,aiwa,akai,sherwood, scott..........

 

[Vinylrockrob]

Meaning it sounds like it was originally meant to sound.Nothing less,nothing more...

Here, here,or is that hear,hear. I love the original natural sounding warmth of Yamaha amps. Always have.Reckon you either like it or don't. Then maybe thats how I like to hear, naturally.

 

[High_Current]

Some of their later offerings shouldn't bear that verbage as it clearly doesn't mean what it used to. Some of Klipsch's line is similar. If you can buy it at Best Buy, you probably don't want it.

 

[Susurus]

I've had the priviledge to hear Betty Carter live, and can attest it is worth it to try to reproduce the nuances of tonal quality. Try.

How many of us can say we have "natural sounding" speakers?

Until you have some of those, it's a moot point what's upstream.

"Ella's there in the room singing". String bass and electric bass and synth bass are easy to tell apart. Clarinet or Oboe? JPR's Flute vs a nose-flute?

Contrane and Horace Silver? smooth, not harsh unless that's how they intended.

The tone on my DQ-20i, ... Bozaks...

:tongue::hdphones:

 

[zenith2134]

What is natural sound?

Marketing gimmick? Partly.

Actual implentation of techniques or parts in an effort to achieve what they consider 'the natural sound'?

Both. I've heard a CR-400 smoke a SONY STR-D597, same speakers, same antenna.

Controls at zero, variable loudness set 'FLAT; and the filters disengagaed, The band is in my room.

The SONY, bloated, congested and noisy.

 

[Vinylrockrob]

Some of their later offerings shouldn't bear that verbage as it clearly doesn't mean what it used to. Some of Klipsch's line is similar. If you can buy it at Best Buy, you probably don't want it.

Your probally right because I have only owned Yamaha amps made in the 70's.

 

[niklasthedol]

Natural Sound is what I aim for in my matching of gear.

Natural sound is when the sound of the reproduced music is as close to the Analog Reference as possible.

Analog Reference being the music as it appeared sounding when getting out over the rim of the stage or as the music were sounding in the boxes of the studio and the monitoring in the studio when recording of the music was made.

I wouldn't mess up or mistake real Natural Sound with Yamaha's marketing policy when naming their gear. On Yamaha units, "Natural Sound" were just letters to apetize people to buy their brand. Nothing else.

"dolph"

 

[shimniok]

I wouldn't mess up or mistake real Natural Sound with Yamaha's marketing policy when naming their gear. On Yamaha units, "Natural Sound" were just letters to apetize people to buy their brand. Nothing else.

I think these types of blanket statements with no explanations aren't terribly useful to anyone actually interested in the topic. Someone saying "Natural Sound is the super cool shiznit" is no more useful than "Natural Sound is just a marketing gimick". What systems have you listened to and what was 'wrong' or 'right' with them? As much as the comment "thin and minimal soundstage" raised hackles, at least it offered explanation.

As with anything, though, I think most of us would agree that if you want to know whether Natural Sound is bull puckey or not, audition a few different vintage Yamahas receivers (or whatever else) and find out. But what do I know.

Michael