Who's listening to FM Tonight? What tuner?

[Nick_G]

never tried one...

I think you should :yes: To me it sounds every bit as good as my Yamaha T-85, and possibly a touch better. Perhaps not quite as good as my T-2 but that may be a matter of preference (YMMV). The reception capabilities are also top-notch and have to be up there with the best for a stock tuner (excluding DSP-based designs such as the XDR-F1HD). The super narrow IF path is great for digging out weak signals into full quieting that are either noisy or virtually undetectable in wide or narrow.

Overall it is the best digital tuner I have ever owned for its combination of sound and RF performance. I think it would give your RHT-10 a run for its money in its reception abilities. It would be an interesting shootout I think.

I'm thinking of getting a Kenwood KT-6040 as that would also be an interesting comparison with the Denon.

Regards,
Nick

 

[decooney]

:lmao: for some reason, i was late getting a notice that this thread had received a response.

yup, certainly does not match my ears. i even prefer the sound of my sony xdr f1hd (if its signal goes thru a tube buffer stage), to the refurb'd aligned mr77 tuna i used to own - easily one of the worst sounding of over 100 tuna i have listened to in my rig over the past 25 years. one of a small handful that i have tried that would not be acceptable as an only tuna if i could have only one....

to mr decooney - i suggest giving that b&k ts108 the same treatment you gave the mr77. and/or pick up a properly working tu717, and then get back to me.

ymmv,

doug s.

Hi Doug,
I owned a brand new Sansui TU-717 for a number of years. It was nice, however I preferred the sound of the TU-919 instead. Today, I own the new Onkyo Integra UP-HT1 HD Radio tuner module along with the B&K TS-108 and the McIntosh MR-77. I find the MR-77 to be fairly dynamic and open. Maybe the wood cabinet on my MR-77 makes it sound good, Heheheh. :tongue: I like it quite a bit as it mates well into my systems I've tried it on. On a related note, I was about to acquire the Sony XDR F1HD a few months ago until I found a number of guys who sold their XDR F1HDs in favor of the Onkyo HD units instead. Some times the Onkyo HD radio units can sound really good depending on time of day and station. Our local radio tuner guy serviced all of my analog units. I may end up selling all of it and doing something completely different. It sure is fun trying these tuners and the different sounds from each. I can see how one can try many different tuners. My local radio guy has done mods on various units, and owns a nice Marantz 10B, and is educating me on more than I ever wanted to know about tuners. One thing I've learned for sure is to ignore specs and just focus on sound quality of each, and also realized that each person hears things differently than the next person.

 

[doug s.]

Hi Doug,
I owned a brand new Sansui TU-717 for a number of years. It was nice, however I preferred the sound of the TU-919 instead. Today, I own the new Onkyo Integra UP-HT1 HD Radio tuner module along with the B&K TS-108 and the McIntosh MR-77. I find the MR-77 to be fairly dynamic and open. Maybe the wood cabinet on my MR-77 makes it sound good, Heheheh. :tongue: I like it quite a bit as it mates well into my systems I've tried it on. On a related note, I was about to acquire the Sony XDR F1HD a few months ago until I found a number of guys who sold their XDR F1HDs in favor of the Onkyo HD units instead. Some times the Onkyo HD radio units can sound really good depending on time of day and station. Our local radio tuner guy serviced all of my analog units. I may end up selling all of it and doing something completely different. It sure is fun trying these tuners and the different sounds from each. I can see how one can try many different tuners. My local radio guy has done mods on various units, and owns a nice Marantz 10B, and is educating me on more than I ever wanted to know about tuners. One thing I've learned for sure is to ignore specs and just focus on sound quality of each, and also realized that each person hears things differently than the next person.

i have never owned the tu919, but i am not surprised you found it better than a tu717. it's known to be one of the wery best. my modded/refurb'd tu-x1 and the two tu9900's (one modded/refurb'd) and the tu719 i owned were also better than a tu517/717. but the tu717 is still nice, and i could live w/it happily as my only tuna, even bone stock.

my refurb'd aligned, (wood cabinet encased), mr77 was closed-in, veiled, undynamic, 2-dimensional. i can think of only 6 other tuna i have had in my rig that wouldn't suffice as my only tuna, and the mr77 takes the dead last prize. from worst to least worst of the tuna i wouldn't wanna own:
1 - mac mr77
2 - (tie) akai at-v04
2 - (tie) sony st-80
2 - (tie) mac mr74
5 - (tie) adcom gft-1a
5 - (tie) m-d ft101 (i was happy w/the adcom & m-d - until i heard what i consider to be a truly *good* tuna.)
7 - kenwood kt9900 (except for 2-d soundstaging, this is an excellent tuna, imo, and highly worthy of modding.)

seriously - the b&k ts108 is noted to be a decent tuna; if functioning properly, i would suspect it would sound way better than any s/s mac tuna, even stock. getting it refurb'd/aligned/modded would be highly recommended.

as always, in audio - ymmv...

doug s.

 

[fiddlefye]

CBC Radio 2, The Signal with Laurie Brown. Revox B160 and then the tube food chain from there on. Sounds great. I love that show, but only really enjoy it one a decent system. So much interesting music and so many unusual sounds, listening on a mediocre set-up I feel I'm missing too much.

 

[decooney]

Hey Doug,
My radio guy already checked out the TS-108. Its as good as its gonna get. He showed me the basic LM1865 IF design and MPX section its based on that many basic digital tuners of that era used. In his words, not a great candidate for modifications and nothing really special as compared to the design of other solid state tuners we both agree sound far better. He has some nice tuners too, including a nice Marantz 10B. I have compared my B&K TS-108 on my system to others and although it sounds pretty good, honestly, (for whatever reason) my MR-77 is in an entirely different league in terms of sound stage and detail. I will say that my Cardas interconnects, ClassA /B pre/amplification, and Totem Model One signature speakers are extremely warm and revealing. The MR-77 makes great use of it too . When I fire up the MR-77 and hear it through the Totems, it can be magical at times. I've already compared it many times back and forth and the MR-77 literally crushes the B&K TS-108 on my system, and my B&K sounds good.


>> what sort of interconnects, preamp, amplifier, and speakers are you listening through when comparing the MR-77 tuner to your other tuners?

>> And, did you try only that one MR-77 tuner in your listening tests before drawing your final conclusions, OR, did you try a second unit to rule out any possibility of variability with that one MR-77 tuner?

...

 

[Old_Tech]

Please send me all unwanted MR-77 tuners. :yes:

 

[doug s.]

Hey Doug,
My radio guy already checked out the TS-108. Its as good as its gonna get. He showed me the basic LM1865 IF design and MPX section its based on that many basic digital tuners of that era used. In his words, not a great candidate for modifications and nothing really special as compared to the design of other solid state tuners we both agree sound far better. He has some nice tuners too, including a nice Marantz 10B. I have compared my B&K TS-108 on my system to others and although it sounds pretty good, honestly, (for whatever reason) my MR-77 is in an entirely different league in terms of sound stage and detail. I will say that my Cardas interconnects, ClassA /B pre/amplification, and Totem Model One signature speakers are extremely warm and revealing. The MR-77 makes great use of it too . When I fire up the MR-77 and hear it through the Totems, it can be magical at times. I've already compared it many times back and forth and the MR-77 literally crushes the B&K TS-108 on my system, and my B&K sounds good.


>> what sort of interconnects, preamp, amplifier, and speakers are you listening through when comparing the MR-77 tuner to your other tuners?

>> And, did you try only that one MR-77 tuner in your listening tests before drawing your final conclusions, OR, did you try a second unit to rule out any possibility of variability with that one MR-77 tuner?

...

i never tried a 2nd mr77. miine was working when i got it. because it sounded so bad, i called mcintosh and they recommended a local factory-authorized tech w/over 30 years experience on mac and tuna. $250 later it at least sounded like a radio, but not much more. easily the most weiled, closed in, undynamic, 2-d sound i have heard from what is supposed to be an fm tuna.

because there seems to be such polarization on the mac sound, i did decide to try a 2nd one, this time an mr74 cuz several folks say it is mac's best sounding tuna. i did not have this one serviced, cuz it was mint, from an original owner, who bought it local, not 50 miles from binghampton, ny. while it was better than the mr77 it still sucked - it definitely had the same family sonic flavor. i had it in my system for 3 months, trying to conwince myself it was ok. when i finally swapped it out, i went for what was my first "good" tuna - the onix bwd-w/soap-2, it was like the clouds had lifted, the weils were withdrawn, and once again, there was music chez-sedon.

the onix is a fine performer, the one that got me started down the tuna madness trail, only bested by the wery wery best, which imo, includes the likes of my modded hk 18, modded tu x1, refurb'd sherwood s3000v, refurb'd stromberg-carlson sr443 w/studio-12 mpx, refurb'd modded rotel rht-10, sherwood s3000-lll/s2100-ll w/studio-12 mpx...

ancillary equipment includes a heavily modified melos ma333r preamp, speakers have included meret re monitors, coincident victory's, piega mk5 mkll ltd's, custom oris 150 horn w/decware modded fostex fe206 drivers, crossed over to custom lascala bass-bins loaded w/fostex 15" woofers. all speakers are actively crossed over to a pair of vmps upright-style larger subs. x-overs have included marchand and deqx. amps depend on the speakers, and have included hypex ucd180 customs, custom gainclones, a pair of electrocompaniet aw75dmb's, mesa baron, audio mirror 6c33c monoblocks, almarro a205a mkll w/cap upgrades, manley mahi-mahi's, set monoblocks from an akai m8 tape deck, custom set amps from engineers in germany and australia...

doug s.

 

[decooney]

i never tried a 2nd mr77. miine was working when i got it. because it sounded so bad, i called mcintosh and they recommended a local factory-authorized tech w/over 30 years experience on mac and tuna. $250 later it at least sounded like a radio, but not much more. easily the most weiled, closed in, undynamic, 2-d sound i have heard from what is supposed to be an fm tuna. because there seems to be such polarization on the mac sound, i did decide to try a 2nd one, this time an mr74 cuz several folks say it is mac's best sounding tuna. i did not have this one serviced, cuz it was mint, from an original owner, who bought it local, not 50 miles from binghampton, ny. while it was better than the mr77 it still sucked - it definitely had the same family sonic flavor. i had it in my system for 3 months, trying to conwince myself it was ok. when i finally swapped it out, i went for what was my first "good" tuna - the onix bwd-w/soap-2, it was like the clouds had lifted, the weils were withdrawn, and once again, there was music chez-sedon. The onix is a fine performer, the one that got me started down the tuna madness trail, only bested by the wery wery best, which imo, includes the likes of my modded hk 18, modded tu x1, refurb'd sherwood s3000v, refurb'd stromberg-carlson sr443 w/studio-12 mpx, refurb'd modded rotel rht-10, sherwood s3000-lll/s2100-ll w/studio-12 mpx...

ancillary equipment includes a heavily modified melos ma333r preamp, speakers have included meret re monitors, coincident victory's, piega mk5 mkll ltd's, custom oris 150 horn w/decware modded fostex fe206 drivers, crossed over to custom lascala bass-bins loaded w/fostex 15" woofers. all speakers are actively crossed over to a pair of vmps upright-style larger subs. x-overs have included marchand and deqx. amps depend on the speakers, and have included hypex ucd180 customs, custom gainclones, a pair of electrocompaniet aw75dmb's, mesa baron, audio mirror 6c33c monoblocks, almarro a205a mkll w/cap upgrades, manley mahi-mahi's, set monoblocks from an akai m8 tape deck, custom set amps from engineers in germany and australia...

doug s.

Hi Doug,
It appears you have a system that you know well and its signature sound as a baseline for your own assessment of what does or does not sound good to you.

Getting back to the OP of this thread, I did some more listening last night on the MR-77, trying it with different amps and preamps, intentionally trying to get it to sound worse :stupid:. Similar to you, I have a primary system with quite a bit of equipment in it, multiple subs, five amplifiers, and a lot of "stuff" in the signal path, AND, a secondary dedicated 2-channel only critical listening system with nothing in the signal path but my tuner, Pro10 preamp with tone direct bypass circuitry, and dedicated dual-mono class A/B amplifier, with Class A speakers, and all high-end Cardas Golden Cross interconnects end-to-end.

Your prior experiences and posts got me thinking on what to test on my own MR-77. It was fun to try it and see what I could come up with.

What I found out last night listening was that I can make the MR-77 sound quite different (less open, closed in, and less detailed as you basically described) by just using different (i.e. wrong) interconnects between my tuner and pre-amp, or between my preamp and amplifier. So, I went back through the entire pile of 20 years of different interconnect cables and started swapping them in and out just to see what would happen. Yep, sure enough, I can make my MR-77 sound less open, "clouded over" as you describe with yours. I then switched back to my original interconnects, and the open and airy sound I was describing earlier was back, wallah!. It appears at least in my case the MR-77 is very sensitive to the type of interconnects used. I'm not implicating this is exactly what you experienced, but I was at least able to recreate something similar to what you described in your situation. Once I went back to my original Cardas or Apature cables, the veil lifted and everything sounded good again. I also found it sounding quite nice with some very inexpensive cables too. Hmmmm :scratch2:, I enjoyed listening and testing the MR-77 FM tuner last night. When its set up with what appears to be "matching" components and interconnects, WOW, the sound stage is quite amazing on my system. Enjoy!

 

[fowlerclone]

There is some great looking and performing equipment in this thread.
Tonight, I'll be listening to Jazzy Nights through 90.9 WRCJ Detroit on my Sony ST-5150.

Image is not mine.

 

[doug s.]

decooney, i am not much of a "cable guy". that said, i use mostly alphacore tq-2/ag or micropurl-ag (always purchased used); or home-brew clones of kimber kcag. these cables, i have found, are neutral, and pass thru all the info that is capable of being delivered. i have found no need to fret or spend big money on cabling.

but, your last word summed it up best, and that's what's important: "enjoy"!

i am presently enjoying wpfw/89.3, courtesy of my fine sounding denon tu-900.

doug s.

 

[rcspkramp]

KMHD Portland, OR through a Denon TU-800.

 

[LordOfTRings]

I do, Marantz 104.

 

[a.wayne]

Sansui must have the best tuners in the world, have you seen their prices lately ...
Jeeez ...

 

[mufster]

Revolution 96.2, Manchester, UK. Mix of 60's through to current. Listening on my Rotel RT-1024.

 

[Old_Tech]

Sansui must have the best tuners in the world, have you seen their prices lately ...
Jeeez ...

The TU-717 is the only tuner you need from Sansui. Expect to pay a couple hundred for a nice one then send it to Mike for a tuning.

Ron

 

[Old_Tech]

Listening to Cobourg again 103.1 Canada. Onkyo T-9090. I love this tuner...

Also have WNED out of Boston NY coming in very nice some 80 miles away. 20kw. I dare say when the warmer nights come it may not be this good.

Ron

 

[doug s.]

The TU-717 is the only tuner you need from Sansui. Expect to pay a couple hundred for a nice one then send it to Mike for a tuning.

Ron

for only a coupla dollars more, i would recommend the tu719; i found it a bit better than the 717 in stock form. but the 717 is certainly no slouch. (the tu517 is almost identical to the 717, but sans record calibrate tone...) the tu9900, tu919 and tux1 are better, but at a much higher price...

doug s.

 

[markfx]

KCSM "Crazy 'Bout The Blues" on an MR65.
Thank you Terry DeWick

 

[FauxHall]

KCSM - "Crazy about the Blues" on an MR71.

Great fun, isn't it?

 

[Old_Tech]

for only a coupla dollars more, i would recommend the tu719; i found it a bit better than the 717 in stock form. but the 717 is certainly no slouch. (the tu517 is almost identical to the 717, but sans record calibrate tone...) the tu9900, tu919 and tux1 are better, but at a much higher price...

doug s.

At a reasonable price the TU-717 is world class. The X1 is ridiculous in price and is going to split hairs at best. When listening to my 717 I never wish I'd bought something else five times as expensive. I'm sure the tuners you mentioned are nice sounding however not necessarily better by any means. I must say my 717 was aligned by Mike Williams and restored to optimum performance at a fraction of the cost of the X1 or some of the others. I have to say the cost to benefits of the X1 simply make no sense to me.

Ron