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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

OK...I think I have some usable woofers - I picked up a pair of Klipsch KP-250B speakers today for $100 (woo!) and I think I'm going to use the K-42 woofers as the basis for a pair of Econowaves. I'm thinking I can sell the tweeters and squawkers (and maybe even the cabinets) to fund the Selenium drivers, waveguides and crossover network. I figure I'll just stay with the standard Heresy cabinet dimensions (although I may rotate the cabinet 90 degrees for a narrower profile).

Any possible hitches in my cunning plan?

-D
 
Somebody else is going to have to help you on the Klipsch gear, 'cause I know approximately zip.

Skywave and Wiredbecker have Heresys; others maybe.... :dunno:
 
skywave-rider said:
D,
Your speakers are interesting:
http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/kp-250.aspx
Klipsch says 70Hz.
My Heresys have K22K woofers.
I doubt you have those drivers, but if you need, I can attempt to measure T/S for you.
Click to expand...

I can't find T/S parameters for the K42 woofers online, but I'm going to talk to someone at Klipsch (via Klipsch forums) to figure out what these woofers can do. From what I understand, the 70Hz figure comes from the way they tune the cabinets (two big-ass ports which cause a steep roll-off for the woofer below 70Hz but a big bump above 120Hz) and the crossover. If you port a standard Heresy / Heresy II you get similar behavior. PWK knew what he was doing when he made the Heresy series airtight.

So, assuming the K42 is similar to a K22 / K24 series (and I'll know more about that next week, hopefully), I'm guessing it would probably work OK with the Econo Waveguide (provided I use the > 95dB crossover) - I believe at least one person has built a K22 / K24 Econowave variant, yes?

For a more general question, is there a problem with building a cabinet with the same dimensions as a Heresy but rotating it 90 degrees (so that the cabinet is narrower and deeper than a Heresy, but with the same interior volume)? I know nothing about building / tuning enclosures, and have two small children who demand a lot of my time, so I probably won't have time to read up on the theory a great deal.

Thanks!

-D
 
Excellent Zilch. Got the DDS-1's put back togetehr with the Seleniums and the 2.5 crossover. Sound great to me. I have absolutely nothing to test them with and don't really know if I have anything missing between the woofers and the horn drivers. But, doing A-B between them and my Kappa 8's I can't detect anything. They sound different for obvious reasons, but both are PDG.:tresbon:
 
Done.
One can probably guess why I thought constant directivity might be a good idea...

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Ewavin3005.jpg


Initial impressions are extremely positive. :D More data to follow. :music:
 
Mini-E'Wave Slam Dunk:

Detritus Boston Acoustics A60 gets JBL 116 woofer, 6" square Mini-E'Waveguide with Selenium D220Ti driver, medium R-13 fiberglass fill, and standard E'Wave crossover with a touch of BSC for freespace listening (2.5 mH, 15 uF). Cursor's at the 1.811 Hz acoustic crossover frequency:

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Yes, it'll likely work with the stock woofers, too, but I only have one of those, and this approach extended the bass (-6 dB) ~7.5 Hz lower, to 37.3 Hz. Use the standard E'Wave lowpass (1.5 mH, 12 uF) if positioned with boundary reinforcement.

This is my standard AR4x upgrade revisited and updated w/E'Wave.

More A60 measurements here:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=217258

Thanks to Wiredbecker for doing the layout and manning the Bosch jigsaw for this conversion.... :thmbsp:
 

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Well, I'm surprised I hadn't bored everyone with this yet. Looking around the basement I noticed the eminence H290 beside the A7s. Off came the 802 8G from the A7's 511B horn, and onto the Eminence H 290s. Then on top of the Ewaves with standard < 95 db circuit, assembled in charge coupled configuration.

I am surprised at how well this works. Interesting how compensation designed for one driver sounds when used on a different driver. When I used this on the 2425H driver, the upper frequencies seemed to need more boost. With the 802 8G drivers, it seems to have that upper frequency sparkle that has previously led me to prefer the Selenium over the 2425H. Even odder, just the opposite was true on the A7s, the JBL seeming to have more extention than the Altec. ( different crossover and comp.)

Boy do I ever need measuring equipment!

russellc
 

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Zilch said:
Detritus Boston Acoustics A60 gets JBL 116 woofer, Mini-E'waveguide with Selenium D220Ti driver, medium R-13 fiberglass fill, and standard E'Wave crossover with a touch of BSC for freespace listening (2.5 mH, 15 uF). Cursor's at the 1.811 Hz acoustic crossover frequency:

attachment.php


attachment.php

Yes, it'll likely work with the stock woofers, too, but I only have one of those, and this approach extended the bass (-6 dB) ~7.5 Hz lower, to 37.3 Hz. Use the standard E'Wave lowpass (1.5 mH, 12 uF) if positioned with boundary reinforcement.

This is my standard AR4x upgrade revisited and updated w/E'Wave.

More A60 measurements here:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=217258

Thanks to Wiredbecker for doing this layout and manning the Bosch jigsaw for the conversion.... :thmbsp:
Click to expand...


So using the 2.5 mH coil instead of the 1.5 standard e"wave part and the 15 uf cap instead of the standard 12uF results in the "BSC" effect? I suppose the baffle size figures into this calculation?

Russellc
 
Russellc said:
So using the 2.5 mH coil instead of the 1.5 standard e"wave part and the 15 uf cap instead of the standard 12uF results in the "BSC" effect? I suppose the baffle size figures into this calculation?
Click to expand...
When you lower the starting frequency of the lowpass filter, it ends up more attenuated at the high end, effectively increasing the bass response when the HF is attenuated to balance with that. In this case, that comes out to be ~4 dB of bass boost built into the crossover, then.

It was loaded on an E'Wave PCB sitting here, what I used to run the LE14A in an undersized cab to play the DE-250s for 900ss the other day, as he observed a couple of posts ago. I calculated nothing; just stuck it on and measured the result. It'd be boomy if I placed the A60s against the wall, but on the test stand, in freespace, no boundaries, it sounds good.

[Call me "Empiricist" today.... ;) ]
 
Is this where I sign up to build some of these dudes? I have a pair of old Dorian cabs with marble tops that I'd like to use if possible. They are currently loaded with LE14s (new surrounds by Army), and the old potatoe masher horns. That was the original stuff, and I can't remember the crossover number, but I went through them too. What would I need to buy, or would these cabs not work.
 
jaymanaa said:
Is this where I sign up to build some of these dudes?
Click to expand...
Go to page #1 of this thread by clicking "First" at the top or bottom of this page, then click the link under "Project Summary."

For starters, you don't have to do anything to your Dorians other than bring new leads for the woofer out through the port, and set E'Wave on top. If you decide you like what you hear, then consider what would be required to integrate E'Wave into the cabinet.

The potato mashers and drivers will likely sell for more than you'll invest in this project.... :thmbsp:
 
Duffinator said:
Very nice. Are those the ADS 10" woofs? If so then the ADS L620's would be an excellent candidate for eWave.
Click to expand...

Those are they. From L730's.

here's my solution for grille adjustment: snipped :yikes: ZilchNutz.

Ewavin3006.jpg


:thmbsp:

Thanks to all for this excellent DIY speaker-geeking experiment. Wonderful stuff, here. :music:

Time to edit the sig.
 
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For a more general question, is there a problem with building a cabinet with the same dimensions as a Heresy but rotating it 90 degrees (so that the cabinet is narrower and deeper than a Heresy, but with the same interior volume)? I know nothing about building / tuning enclosures, and have two small children who demand a lot of my time, so I probably won't have time to read up on the theory a great deal.
Click to expand...

Anyone? Is the width of the baffle important or is interior volume the primary concern? Sorry for the newbie / amateur questions, but I have no experience with this.

Thanks!

-D
 
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