Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[JoMoCo]

Point Source JBL 2152H mini Econowave Candidate?

The problem is that you need a large-mouth horn/waveguide to play low enough with pattern control. To what extent that DC's use of the woofer cone accomplishes that with CD is certainly ascertainable.

Last time I looked, GPA's redesigned 604 appeared to be on the requisite path, but we really need to see the polars to verify.

There are also some BMS concentrics that look "right," but I gotta wonder how much the large waveguides they use are messing with the midrange dispersion of the woofer cone....

I noticed JBL has polars for this model which looks to be approx sized the same as mini waveguide....:scratch2:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/components/2152.pdf

 

[Bauhausler]

Well, here's my vote of confidence in the EWave. Look on That Auction Site at any time after 9:30 PM 3/21 and search for 'Isobarik'.

 

[gcarlberg]

I'm glad you are going to try the charge coupled version here, and am waiting to hear what you think of its sound. Have you tried CC crossovers before? This was my first try, and there seems to be an improvement to me. It may very well be subjective, but I definately thought it was worth adding to the collective knowledge of Econowave. Keep all informed of your findings.

Russellc

This is my first attempt at a cc crossover. I giving it a try, largely because of your comments.

I'm replacing a Altec 411/511/802 setup that is biamped thru an older Pioneer SF850 crossover.

I have picked up the Behringer mic and purchased the TrueRTA software at the1/3 octave resolution. I'm still in the process of learning how to use those tools, however my first experiments with my Indignias yielded results remarkably similar to those posted by others.

My intention is to create a baseline with the Altecs/Pioneer xover, then move to the JBL LE14/220 with the same xover and finally the JBL's with the cc xover.

I'll post my results

George

 

[tubino]

There should be about 10 or so new B&C DE 250 owners out there, and while I realize that some may have them for projects other than Econowave,nono I assume many are e'wavers.

I put mine on my wood horns, but will get around to the JBL waveguides with them. I can tell you that it is quite possible to enjoy this thread and learn from it, while still maintaining that there are many routes to aural bliss. Last night I hooked up a big power amp to the Stromberg-Carlson 12" full-range on open baffle. Now THERE is an econo-system: no crossover, cheap drivers, no box, and second-hand SS preamp and amp. It lacks equally on top and bottom, which makes it seem kinda balanced. Sure the JBL 2226 and horn combo on 15 tube watts blows it out of the water, but it's a pleasant sound that is surprisingly engaging and images better than I thought it would. Definitely better with 100 watt power amp than with the Dyna SCA-35...

I would be very interested to know about a CD horn that would mount directly in the JBL 3677 cabinet. I will see what it would take to put the EWG in there (seems pretty close in size), as that would make a nice backyard system I could wheel out from the garage.

 

[hhibrownsbac]

There should be about 10 or so new B&C DE 250 owners out there, and while I realize that some may have them for projects other than Econowave,nono
I assume many are e'wavers. I'm still awaiting Zilch's recomended part to arrive from PE, but even with standard E'wave crossover isnt bad.....

Anyone else? Any of you other JBL 4507/4647 E'wavers have anything to report? Or are you just enjoying?:thmbsp::yes:

Russellc

I got my set yesterday. I just have to finish the 4507 cabinets in making. Hopefully later this coming week. I have the 2225Hs, the DE 250s and standard crossovers built but this cabinet set is taking awhile from scratch. Better to take it slow. I feel pretty confident that they will sound as good as they are gonna look. The anticipation is killing me:thmbsp:

 

[Wayne1]

There should be about 10 or so new B&C DE 250 owners out there, and while I realize that some may have them for projects other than Econowave,nono
I assume many are e'wavers. I'm still awaiting Zilch's recomended part to arrive from PE, but even with standard E'wave crossover isnt bad.....

Anyone else? Any of you other JBL 4507/4647 E'wavers have anything to report? Or are you just enjoying?:thmbsp::yes:

Russellc

Only four pair arrived from the group buy. The rest were back ordered. I shipped three pair out and delivered the last pair today, as the owner lives very close to me.

The latest information from PE shows the DE250 drivers back ordered through 5/12/09

The first information I had showed two weeks. I will contact them on Monday to find out for sure how long it will be to get the drivers we ordered.

 

[hhibrownsbac]

For anyone looking for a decent economical woofer that sounds pretty good with the standard X0. You might try the Dayton Classic 12", I seen a few posts where a few had tried the 10" with good results so I was curious as to the 12" since I toasted a set of woofers last week. They sound pretty darn good. The bass is actually quite good, but what amazes me with them is the mids. For the money they would be hard to beat thats for sure.

 

[Wayne1]

EWaveNLA update

I have been slowly working on the NLA project.

I mounted some new binding posts and the L-pad on both cabinets.

The crossovers have been built.

They will be mounted externally in a separate box.

This will allow me to change out the crossover to whatever I might wish to, in the future. The dual binding posts on the speaker will allow me to bi-amp with my DCX-2496 if I so desire.

I was concerned about resonances with the thin plastic waveguide mounted in the same cabinet as the woofer. I applied quite a bit of Rope Caulk to both the waveguide and the stamped steel woofer basket.

Now I have to wire everything together and listen.

Hopefully it will all be done by next weekend.

 

[Zilch]

Lookin' mightily good, Wayne.

I'm particularly interested in whether you ultimately find the waveguide damping to be effective.... :thmbsp:

 

[tubino]

I'm particularly interested in whether you ultimately find the waveguide damping to be effective.... :thmbsp:

Me too. I played the EWG bare-nekkid, and then with the same driver but firmly mounted to 3/4" MDF. I thought the coloration I heard at first was eliminated when mounted to a baffle. OTOH that was an open baffle arrangement, and inside a cabinet with a woofer I would wonder about additional damping as Wayne has done. (Realistically I'd probably only do it after I listened without it and thought I was hearing something negative though.)

 

[Russellc]

This is my first attempt at a cc crossover. I giving it a try, largely because of your comments.

I'm replacing a Altec 411/511/802 setup that is biamped thru an older Pioneer SF850 crossover.

I have picked up the Behringer mic and purchased the TrueRTA software at the1/3 octave resolution. I'm still in the process of learning how to use those tools, however my first experiments with my Indignias yielded results remarkably similar to those posted by others.

My intention is to create a baseline with the Altecs/Pioneer xover, then move to the JBL LE14/220 with the same xover and finally the JBL's with the cc xover.

I'll post my results

George

That's the same deal I'm going to try until I run into spare DEQ 2496 money!
Let me know how the True RTA works out, I'm sure I'll have a question or to.

Thanks,

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

I got my set yesterday. I just have to finish the 4507 cabinets in making. Hopefully later this coming week. I have the 2225Hs, the DE 250s and standard crossovers built but this cabinet set is taking awhile from scratch. Better to take it slow. I feel pretty confident that they will sound as good as they are gonna look. The anticipation is killing me:thmbsp:

Having lived with that cabinet for some time now, I can tell you that you will not be dissapointed. You'll be very happy with the results. I just ordered the .8 coil and 6.8 cap as Zilch advised to tweek the crossover for DE 250. Please keep posting, and you might do a thread about your build here, the 4507/4647
is perfect for this project, and is usuable as a bass unit for everything from clone 4430's to mega E'waves. With 2225H or 2235H the output is impressive.
I'm sure there's others who have queried building this box. Best of luck, it will be worth the effort.

russellc

 

[Russellc]

Only four pair arrived from the group buy. The rest were back ordered. I shipped three pair out and delivered the last pair today, as the owner lives very close to me.

The latest information from PE shows the DE250 drivers back ordered through 5/12/09

The first information I had showed two weeks. I will contact them on Monday to find out for sure how long it will be to get the drivers we ordered.

Yes. I received an Email from PE telling me they were back in stock, but things must be sent out from stock, and so forth. Thanks for your time arranging all this, much appreciated!:thmbsp:

PS Just checked PE and you are correct. I guess the email was sent in error or I misunderstood, I had checked the box to be notified when they were back....but looking today it indeed says 5/12.

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

For anyone looking for a decent economical woofer that sounds pretty good with the standard X0. You might try the Dayton Classic 12", I seen a few posts where a few had tried the 10" with good results so I was curious as to the 12" since I toasted a set of woofers last week. They sound pretty darn good. The bass is actually quite good, but what amazes me with them is the mids. For the money they would be hard to beat thats for sure.

Been waiting for someone to try it, go e'wave!:thmbsp: Glad to here its working well, as it certainly is priced within the "Econo" criteria!

russellc

 

[Russellc]

I have been slowly working on the NLA project.

I mounted some new binding posts and the L-pad on both cabinets.

The crossovers have been built.

They will be mounted externally in a separate box.

This will allow me to change out the crossover to whatever I might wish to, in the future. The dual binding posts on the speaker will allow me to bi-amp with my DCX-2496 if I so desire.

I was concerned about resonances with the thin plastic waveguide mounted in the same cabinet as the woofer. I applied quite a bit of Rope Caulk to both the waveguide and the stamped steel woofer basket.

Now I have to wire everything together and listen.

Hopefully it will all be done by next weekend.

Very nice work on the posts, and the crossover is very pro looking. A fellow member Rybeam has a nice set of Advents that he's going to E'wave, great example for him to follow, thanks for the nice pics!

Russellc

 

[tubino]

Mounting EWG on JBL 3677 cabinet

I would be very interested to know about a CD horn that would mount directly in the JBL 3677 cabinet. I will see what it would take to put the EWG in there (seems pretty close in size), as that would make a nice backyard system I could wheel out from the garage.

I checked this out. The 3677 has a cutout of 4 5/8" H x 11" W, with the side mounting holes at 12" center-to-center. This means that the EWG would fit by removing one center t-nut and cutting out 1/4" to 3/8" inches from top or bottom (though going toward the center would make it close to a 2x4 brace, I think it would work, and be closer to the 15").

The only goofy thing is that the cutout is 1/2" wider than the EWG wants, and puts the cutout RIGHT at the edge of the mounting holes of the side flanges. The right thing to do is probably glue 1/4" strips of hardwood on each side, to help with airseals and so that screws don't bust out on the sides. The uncut long side can use the existing center t-nut to mount the EWG, but that's the only one. The existing holes on the sides can be filled, or it would be possible to use some kind of screw-down clip thing on the EWG -- but I'd rather use the EWG mounting holes and be done with it.

The cabinet is shallow, but there is a good 10.5" from the back of the flange to the back of the cabinet. This means just about any 1" driver will have plenty of clearance behind it when mounted on the EWG.

I will definitely do this modest mod and post results.

 

[dnewma04]

Cody, if you wind up getting TrueRTA, I can't think of any reason why you'd want to save up for a behringer DEQ, unless you simply want it for the feature packed EQ. As an RTA, it's lacking compared to TrueRTA.

 

[Russellc]

Cody, if you wind up getting TrueRTA, I can't think of any reason why you'd want to save up for a behringer DEQ, unless you simply want it for the feature packed EQ. As an RTA, it's lacking compared to TrueRTA.

Thanks for the tip, I assume you are talking about the very reasonably priced version, not the free one? I didnt realize that it equaled the Behringer unit. The other reason was that Zilch, Skywave rider and a few others have used this DEQ 2496, and I thought it would be easier to compare notes. Do you use or recommend the Behringer mic, or what? Also, I know I'll need a Phantom power supply, or pre amp. or something, I figured that the True RTA would spell out simple enough for me to figure out, if not, any headsup you would give abount ancillary equipment needed?

Thanks for any advice, much appreciated. I can talk a big stick but am BRAND NEW to any measuring of speakers, short of 1/3 octave warble tones and a radio shack sound meter on a tripod.

Spice will take a while to even know whats going on, but Wayne supplied me with a buch of links to its use. If I dont need the behringer DEQ 2496, I may have sufficient funds to get the very well priced WTT 3 and the box pro program ( BBP6 or whatever) so many have used.

Russellc

 

[tubino]

I will definitely do this modest mod and post results.

Did one side, almost finished with the other. It went pretty smoothly! Before:

After:

That's a JBL 3677 with JBL 2226J and EconoWave Guide with B&C DE250.

 

[Russellc]

Did one side, almost finished with the other. It went pretty smoothly! Before:

After:

That's a JBL 3677 with JBL 2226J and EconoWave Guide with B&C DE250.

Oh man, you are close! Report the results when both are done. I'm sure those are going to rock seriously!:yes:

Russellc