Let's pretend.... :tongue:
I get to the comparison, and the JBL driver sounds better.
Is there comp in the stock filter? Yup, I Spiced it.
Is it "correct" for D210/D220? Unlikely....
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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
Is there comp in the stock filter? Yup, I Spiced it.
Is it "correct" for D210/D220? Unlikely....
jackgiff
Well-Known Member
I got a six pack before they sold out!
Imagine how much better it would have sounded if he had used the proper crossover. Maybe the nicotene dulled his sense of hearing.
As long as they don't blow when you hook up a 500w PA amp is all that matters...:thmbsp:
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
I thought it was just me. Stock sounded better from here. maybe if you were making the critical comparison audition standing BEHIND the speakers like he was the Selenium sounded better.
Plus that's driver is not the Selenium D220ti, it's the cheaper 210, with spring (yuk) hook ups. Interesting-just pop a driver in with no crossover consideration or otherwise-but it's heavier (man), it must be better!!
That guy cracks me up
-looks more like Long Beach than Berkley-defenitley didn't drive up from San Pedro, or he would have a white van in the background
(Watt)
That guy cracks me up
-looks more like Long Beach than Berkley-defenitley didn't drive up from San Pedro, or he would have a white van in the background (Watt)
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Plus that's driver is not the Selenium D220ti, it's the cheaper 210, with spring (yuk) hook ups. Interesting-just pop a driver in with no crossover consideration or otherwise-but it's heavier (man), it must be better!!
That guy cracks me up
Plenty of quality drivers have had press-spring terminals, although I prefer a more positive connection for mechanical reliability.
I have both the 220 and 210 here. I prefer the 220 slightly only because there's a slight but definite improvement in top octave 'air' in the 220. This is also usually the only 'visible' difference in the drivers' response in ewave applications. In some applications the 210 might be preferable. Both are good quality drivers with many appropriate uses.
I agree that arbitrarily swapping in a heavier driver does not necessarily produce better performance. If you look at the two drivers, the JBL looks smaller but they might have equal sized magnets - or close.
I have a pair of Valencias here into which I swapped 210s in place of the stock Altec 806s for reasons of economy. No crossover changes yet except replacing dead parts with equal values. It works very well but I'm sure it's not optimum. These might still be around in 10 days for Southeast Michigan Audio Club members to hear at the monthly club meet.
Duffinator
Spin The Black Circle
Yep those "useless pieces of plastic" :lmao:
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Impromptu ewave experiment #47...
I really like tehe Altec Bolero 'B' but I think 3500 hz is probably not the best crossover point for the 406Z woofer. I've been wanting to try these in combo with the ewave and its lower crossover point.
For this experiment I'm using an outboarded 'classic' ewave crossover. I'm driving the Altec's woofer temporarily through its own crossover choke, which will have some impact on the sound. At some point I'll pull the woofers and bypass the crossover choke so I'm going straight to the woofer.
I have to say I like this a lot. Better than the KEF 103.3s I've had here for a few days trying hard to like. The Ewave on top of the 406Z doesn't make me miss the 3000G Altec horn tweeter one bit.
I imagine there's a more optimum crossover for this that takes into account the characteristics of the 406Z for best response. I doubt I'll get around to investigating that but for now I'm really enjoying hearing this setup playing Middle Cyclone, the new Neko Case CD.
I suppose the next step will have to be doing an active 3 way version using the Valencia cabs up to 200 hz, the 406Z from 200 to 2k and the ewave with passive CD compensation from 2K up.
I really like tehe Altec Bolero 'B' but I think 3500 hz is probably not the best crossover point for the 406Z woofer. I've been wanting to try these in combo with the ewave and its lower crossover point.
For this experiment I'm using an outboarded 'classic' ewave crossover. I'm driving the Altec's woofer temporarily through its own crossover choke, which will have some impact on the sound. At some point I'll pull the woofers and bypass the crossover choke so I'm going straight to the woofer.
I have to say I like this a lot. Better than the KEF 103.3s I've had here for a few days trying hard to like. The Ewave on top of the 406Z doesn't make me miss the 3000G Altec horn tweeter one bit.
I imagine there's a more optimum crossover for this that takes into account the characteristics of the 406Z for best response. I doubt I'll get around to investigating that but for now I'm really enjoying hearing this setup playing Middle Cyclone, the new Neko Case CD.
I suppose the next step will have to be doing an active 3 way version using the Valencia cabs up to 200 hz, the 406Z from 200 to 2k and the ewave with passive CD compensation from 2K up.
Attachments
Wayne1
Speaker Butcher
I had another audiogeek friend stop by today.
He has built himself a pair of Geddes Abbeys.
This was his comment on the E-waved Advents:
"I had the pleasure of hearing Wayne's UltraHacked Advent/JBL/Selenium combo today. Stunningly good for almost no money. :thmbsp:"
I received a pair of refoamed Advent woofers today. The E-wave conversion of Wharfdales W60Ds is not too far away now.
He has built himself a pair of Geddes Abbeys.
This was his comment on the E-waved Advents:
"I had the pleasure of hearing Wayne's UltraHacked Advent/JBL/Selenium combo today. Stunningly good for almost no money. :thmbsp:"
I received a pair of refoamed Advent woofers today. The E-wave conversion of Wharfdales W60Ds is not too far away now.
He didn't post that in the Geddes E'Wave thread on the DIY forum, I trust.
If he DID, link us to the ensuing fun, please....
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
That'll work, most definitely, I should think.
Hook up the Val as a sub, maybe.
I'd be looking at swapping in the 18-Sound elliptical in place of the PR, and porting the Bolero cabs.... :yes:
I'm now using the Val cabs as a bottom end crossed over at 200 hz. This Dayton 15" in the ported 5.5' cabinet is definitely better than the Altec 406/PR at the very bottom, as you'd expect.
As far as modding the Boleros permanently, I'm loathe to do that because they're pretty valuable in original working condition. Now I wish I hadn't sold the pair of 406 -8Y woofers I had, but oh well.
I might try these woofers in some moddable cabinets like the L77 boxes I have laying around.
Is the 406 woofer preferable to the LE10 for this application?
I only know 406 by reputation: if Tom Brennan says they are good, that's enough for me.
Since you have them and LE10s both, it'd be interesting to know how you think they compare.... :yes:
tubino
A guy with too many tubes
B&C 12" woofers, great price
Hope I'm not out of bounds here -- on That Auction Site is a guy selling B&C 12" LF Drivers Model 12 PS 32 at BIN $35. I've no connection. Apologies if this doesn't fit with the EWG thread, but the driver seems a fit to me. It's a serious 20.5 POUND driver.
Thiele & Small Parameters: http://www.bcspeakers.com/PDF/PRD/120.pdf (for full specs).
Fs 44 Hz
Re 5.9 *
Qes 0.39
Qms 3.2
Qts 0.35
Vas 82 dm3 (2.9 ft3)
Sd 522 cm2 (80.9 in2)
*0 1.8%
X max ± 6 mm
X var ± 7.5 mm
Mms 60 g
Bl 15.9 T·m
Le 1.8 mH
Hope I'm not out of bounds here -- on That Auction Site is a guy selling B&C 12" LF Drivers Model 12 PS 32 at BIN $35. I've no connection. Apologies if this doesn't fit with the EWG thread, but the driver seems a fit to me. It's a serious 20.5 POUND driver.
Thiele & Small Parameters: http://www.bcspeakers.com/PDF/PRD/120.pdf (for full specs).
Fs 44 Hz
Re 5.9 *
Qes 0.39
Qms 3.2
Qts 0.35
Vas 82 dm3 (2.9 ft3)
Sd 522 cm2 (80.9 in2)
*0 1.8%
X max ± 6 mm
X var ± 7.5 mm
Mms 60 g
Bl 15.9 T·m
Le 1.8 mH
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jackgiff
Well-Known Member
tubino, thanks for that heads up. I bought a pair, even though I have no idea where they will go. Seemed like a good deal.
I need another project.
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
I'm not good at interpreting parameters. What sort of cabinet/loading is appropriate for this driver? The literature refers to compact reflex systems, which I assume means a modestly sized ported cabinet.
Looking at the specs, this looks more like a midwoofer, almost. Useful output below 100 hz is nonexistent but it looks usable up to 2K if the graph is to be believed. This would make a monster loud 3-way.
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tubino
A guy with too many tubes
I see what you mean about the drop-off at 100hz on the graph... 3-way seems good... But I don't think Dan Marshall would mind me sharing his views on it.
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Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Possibly the graph's 100 hz dropoff is an artifact of the testing method. It does look unnatural. 94db sensitivity is rare in an affordable 12"
Looking at the specs, my first thought was powered stage monitor.
(stares at Valencia cabinets and scratches head...)
jackgiff
Well-Known Member
If it's response is as flat as the data sheet shows from 100 Hz to 2 KHz, it could be a be killer mid range in a three way system, with the EconoWave on top. And for just $70.
I entered it's T/S parameters into WinISD, and in 4 cubic feet, it looks like it might not need a subwoofer, pretty much confirming Dan Marshall's comments about them. Playing with it will tell.
Anybody else spring for a pair to play with?
I entered it's T/S parameters into WinISD, and in 4 cubic feet, it looks like it might not need a subwoofer, pretty much confirming Dan Marshall's comments about them. Playing with it will tell.
Anybody else spring for a pair to play with?