skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
I wonder how that would stack up against a vintage type, like JBL 123A or high sensitivity types like the Eminence Delta 12, etc.?
Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
tubino
A guy with too many tubes
Someone bought 34, then 6 more went after that -- they are all gone. If they had been good for horn-loading I would have done it...
I wonder if the crossover boards that ?jackgiff? makes would manage the large inductors needed for a 16 ohm woofer... or would those be off-board? I'm fond of the big ERSE ones.
The specs remind me of 2206H:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2191142#post2191142
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/components/2206.pdf
I've built E'Wave floor monitors with those....
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tubino
A guy with too many tubes
Easy to see why! The FR looks much like the B&C... And look at the lower end of the 2206 frequency curve when put it in a smaller tuned enclosure (RED):
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Pio1980
AK Member
Possibly E-Waving AR 2-ways
(Moved from another thread by request)
I have a dead tweeter in one of a pair of AR-6. I really liked the natural & relatively uncolored coherent sound and effortless ability to convey sonic "texture" these things produced so easily and would like to preserve these characteristics if I mod them to get them back in action as my back-up/ portable speakers. The world is bung-hole deep in crappy sounding speakers and these were definitely anti-polar to that.
What I do not want is something that ends up sounding like home-bound P-A or almost all typical vintage speakers including C-V, JBL, Japanese, or other noiseboxes from the past or even present. I want something I can effortlessly "hear thru" rather than just "listen at", and that seemingly puts the performance at or just beyond that end of the room with nothing between it and the listener. In other words, a good small-ish domestic loudspeaker with as little personality and character as possible for a reasonable price and effort. I have reasonable expectations and don't expect perfection but can be and am often pleasantly surprized by excellence in seemingly modest packages.
If E-W'ing them will do that or even improve on what they did well plus perhaps giving an improved sense of dynamics, then I am definitely interested in the collective experience and input on this potential project. I've already invested in re-doing the woofs before one intermittent tweet finally died and they are otherwise definitely worth the effort. I need to know with what and how for these boxes specifically as close to a drop-in as possible since I do not have a home speaker lab. Internal F-t-R is ca 5 & 3/4". I have somewhat followed this thread and I do have confidence in the collective guidance and experience of 'Z' and this group. TIA.
(Moved from another thread by request)
I have a dead tweeter in one of a pair of AR-6. I really liked the natural & relatively uncolored coherent sound and effortless ability to convey sonic "texture" these things produced so easily and would like to preserve these characteristics if I mod them to get them back in action as my back-up/ portable speakers. The world is bung-hole deep in crappy sounding speakers and these were definitely anti-polar to that.
What I do not want is something that ends up sounding like home-bound P-A or almost all typical vintage speakers including C-V, JBL, Japanese, or other noiseboxes from the past or even present. I want something I can effortlessly "hear thru" rather than just "listen at", and that seemingly puts the performance at or just beyond that end of the room with nothing between it and the listener. In other words, a good small-ish domestic loudspeaker with as little personality and character as possible for a reasonable price and effort. I have reasonable expectations and don't expect perfection but can be and am often pleasantly surprized by excellence in seemingly modest packages.
If E-W'ing them will do that or even improve on what they did well plus perhaps giving an improved sense of dynamics, then I am definitely interested in the collective experience and input on this potential project. I've already invested in re-doing the woofs before one intermittent tweet finally died and they are otherwise definitely worth the effort. I need to know with what and how for these boxes specifically as close to a drop-in as possible since I do not have a home speaker lab. Internal F-t-R is ca 5 & 3/4". I have somewhat followed this thread and I do have confidence in the collective guidance and experience of 'Z' and this group. TIA.
You're doing subjective on us here, and the best I can offer is what other E'Wavers have said about listening to their projects:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2528142#post2528142
Most of my work with the smaller ARs like AR4x predates E'Wave, and is documented in this thread:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123113
My first try with bonafide E'Wave in small cabs used the 6" square waveguide. We've already determined that it only requires 4" behind the front baffle face, so it will fit in shallow cabs such as AR6:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2587650&#post2587650
Several other members have worked with the 18-Sound elliptical waveguide, which is 5.75" deep with bolt-on Selenium, 5.875" deep with B&C DE10-8, and 5.8" deep with the stock 18-Sound HD125 driver:
http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=262
It's 5.9" high, so I guess the first question is whether you have room on the baffle above the woofer for either of these alternatives:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1534352&highlight=18-sound#post1534352
If not, there are smaller options, but I can virtually guarantee that the AR 8" woofer will not play high enough to meet them.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2528142#post2528142
Most of my work with the smaller ARs like AR4x predates E'Wave, and is documented in this thread:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123113
My first try with bonafide E'Wave in small cabs used the 6" square waveguide. We've already determined that it only requires 4" behind the front baffle face, so it will fit in shallow cabs such as AR6:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2587650&#post2587650
Several other members have worked with the 18-Sound elliptical waveguide, which is 5.75" deep with bolt-on Selenium, 5.875" deep with B&C DE10-8, and 5.8" deep with the stock 18-Sound HD125 driver:
http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=262
It's 5.9" high, so I guess the first question is whether you have room on the baffle above the woofer for either of these alternatives:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1534352&highlight=18-sound#post1534352
If not, there are smaller options, but I can virtually guarantee that the AR 8" woofer will not play high enough to meet them.
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Pio1980
AK Member
Thnx much for your excellent response!
I hesitated for some hours responding with the subjective stuff but I thought it might be helpful to establish a hoped-for baseline of an outcome standard of performance potential. I'm aware these are supposed to sound nothing like the exponential horns of yore with their signature megaphone-y colorations.
The available area for the top end appears to be ca 6" H (5" under the grille) X 10" X 5 & 3/4 deep. Depth is easily do-able for the 6x6 but not so much the spacing between the woof cavity and the top of baffle. According to your data it's possibly a no-go with that WG and a possible but tight fit with the 18-Sound oval WG and driver without the grille in place. I'm assuming I'd use the suggested xover and not the internal item if I decided to go this route. Unfortunately my 4x are not the same tweet as the 6, so a swap-and-mod for a better fit won't do there, plus there's the magnet problem for the 4x/TV combo. My AR "Rock Partners" (Wedge-shaped nearfield monitors based on the model 18) use a similar tweet but they aren't candidates for EW for even tighter dimensional reasons.
I considered the 4x as a candidate but these older versions with their closed-field AlNiCo box magnets are in use as AV in the only available location right next to a large-screen CRT TV and a driver with a different open hi-Gauss ceramic magnet structure won't do here either.
Need to post this and do some more research.
S.B.
I hesitated for some hours responding with the subjective stuff but I thought it might be helpful to establish a hoped-for baseline of an outcome standard of performance potential. I'm aware these are supposed to sound nothing like the exponential horns of yore with their signature megaphone-y colorations.
The available area for the top end appears to be ca 6" H (5" under the grille) X 10" X 5 & 3/4 deep. Depth is easily do-able for the 6x6 but not so much the spacing between the woof cavity and the top of baffle. According to your data it's possibly a no-go with that WG and a possible but tight fit with the 18-Sound oval WG and driver without the grille in place. I'm assuming I'd use the suggested xover and not the internal item if I decided to go this route. Unfortunately my 4x are not the same tweet as the 6, so a swap-and-mod for a better fit won't do there, plus there's the magnet problem for the 4x/TV combo. My AR "Rock Partners" (Wedge-shaped nearfield monitors based on the model 18) use a similar tweet but they aren't candidates for EW for even tighter dimensional reasons.
I considered the 4x as a candidate but these older versions with their closed-field AlNiCo box magnets are in use as AV in the only available location right next to a large-screen CRT TV and a driver with a different open hi-Gauss ceramic magnet structure won't do here either.
Need to post this and do some more research.
S.B.
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It's sounding like you can get there with the 6" square waveguide. I know some other options, but there's no way the AR woofer's gonna get to 3 kHz.
The 6" x 6" is 90° vertical dispersion, so it's not going to care much if the flange is blocked by the grille, and you can always make new grilles, if necessary. You can also get another 1/4" by notching the bottom flange and sliding the waveguide down like this:
If you have the tools and skill, you can recess the waveguide flush, as well.
Yes, you'll be building new E'Wave crossovers.
The 6" x 6" is 90° vertical dispersion, so it's not going to care much if the flange is blocked by the grille, and you can always make new grilles, if necessary. You can also get another 1/4" by notching the bottom flange and sliding the waveguide down like this:
If you have the tools and skill, you can recess the waveguide flush, as well.
Yes, you'll be building new E'Wave crossovers.
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Pio1980
AK Member
It looks like I now by default have my candidate for EW after lurking this thread for a while. I'll start by ordering the WGs for an eyeball fitting and figuring out how to get them properly installed with the limited tools at my disposal. Do I use the standard EW cross-over and disregard the AR unit except for possibly harvesting usable parts?
Yeah but those are also backordered. :tears::tears:
