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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

I'm interested in building the econo waveguide speaker.

I have a pair of Eminence Kappalite 3015LF woofers. Will these work well, or should I sell them for something different?
I pasted the woofer specs below. Which crossover should I use with these?

I like my speakers a little on the bass heavy side. I'll use the speakers primarily for home theater. I listen to mostly rock, but also enjoy jazz.

I will be building my own speaker enclosure from MDF.

http://www.eminence.com/proaudio_sp...=KAPPALITE3015LF&speaker_size=15&SUB_CAT_ID=3

SPECIFICATION

8 ohms
450W
Resonance 42Hz
Usable Frequency Range 40Hz-1.5kHz
Sensitivity 99.8

THIELE & SMALL PARAMETERS

Resonant Frequency (fs) 42Hz
DC Resistance (Re) 5.31
Coil Inductance (Le) 0.92mH
Mechanical Q (Qms) 6.82
Electromagnetic Q (Qes) 0.41
Total Q (Qts) 0.39
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas) 158.8 liters / 5.6 cu.ft.
Peak Diaphragm Displacement Volume (Vd) 846cc
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms) 0.14mm/N
BL Product (BL) 18.6 T-M
Diaphram Mass inc. Airload (Mms) 101 grams
Efficiency Bandwidth Product (EBP) 102
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax) 9.6mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd) 881.1 cm2
Maximum Mechanical Limit (Xlim) 17.0mm
 
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I do have them, and the DE10s as well; doing the Indignia group buy right now, and trying to wrap up some projects. More keep showing up here, tho. ;)

I'll be watching for your impressions of those DE10s vs the DT210/220s.
I'm wondering how those mylar domes will sound..
.:scratch2:
 
I have a pair of Eminence Kappalite 3015LF woofers. Will these work well, or should I sell them for something different?
I pasted the woofer specs below. Which crossover should I use with these?
Build using the high-sensitivity variant of the crossover.

You'll need your sub(s).... :yes:
 
Build using the high-sensitivity variant of the crossover.

You'll need your sub(s).... :yes:

Thanks, Zilch! I found the crossover you mentioned and will use that one instead. I can't seem to find the 15 ohm and 24 ohm resistors on parts express though.

Any suggestions on what frequency I might tune the 3015LF woofer enclosure to?

Btw, I do have two separate [large] dedicated subs, tuned to 17hz.
 
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I can't seem to find the 15 ohm and 24 ohm resistors on parts express though..

16 and 25 Ohms are close enough.

Eminence's tuning specs say the best bass response is in a 12 cubic foot cabinet tuned to 44 Hz. Thats a BIG box.
 
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16 and 25 Ohms are close enough.

Eminence's tuning specs say the best bass response is in a 12 cubic foot cabinet tuned to 44 Hz. Thats a BIG box.

Thanks, it looks like PE does have the 16 & 25 ohm resistors. :)

Yeah, I don't think I'll be going with the 12 cu.ft. enclosure. :D

I can go tall and semi-wide. But the depth is what would kill anyone.
 
E-wave tidal wave... (or tidal E-wave?)

Lest you think all I do is lurk in the shadows and ask an occasional dumb question, here's what I've been up to:

I stumbled across this thread back in January or February when I was looking for some information about alternative drivers and cabinets for my Altec 811B horns. Well, I was completely mesmerized by the whole collaborative design exercise, so I started trolling eBay and the Lansing Heritage marketplace for a pair of cabinets to e-wave, in addition to the pair I needed for the 811B’s.

Early on, I decided that cabinets with removable front baffles would be easier for me to modify, so I concentrated my search on early 1970’s era Altec model numbers. The short integral pedestal of certain models seemed to have saved them from the wet basement or carpet storage splitting and swelling of other floor-standers, and or course, the Santana pseudo-slate plastic tops eliminated the death-by-houseplant syndrome. In the end, I wanted to wind up with something I could put in the living room, an otherwise formal space with no audio gear.

To make a long story short, after a false start with a pair of Yamaha cabinets that were just too cheaply made to fool with, next thing I knew, I was in Columbus, Ohio at Ron Spkrman57’s house, picking up a pair of Altec Santana II’s, a pair of Altec 879A Santana’s, a pair of Altec 891A’s and a pair of JBL 123A-1 woofers. A couple of weeks later a pair of Altec 872B Madrid’s, which amazingly had never been used as a plant stand or wet bar, fell into my lap.

To top it off, this affair is my FIRST speaker project ever. Never built a crossover or made a front baffle before, never took a Sawzall or sabersaw to a speaker cabinet. No real experience with a router. Since then, I’ve become pretty darn handy with the router, which has become an invaluable tool for fabricating front baffles.

I also either already owned or accumulated a pair of JBL LE120H-1 woofers, two pair of LE14A woofers plus the pair of 123A-1 woofers. The Altec Madrid’s came to me with a usable pair of Altec 420A 15” bi-flex woofers.

So my current layouts are thus:

Santana II: I’ve cut the front baffles out of the Santana II’s and made new front baffles that accommodate the 811B’s and the pair of JBL LE120H-1’s. LE14A’s will physically fit, but would require fabrication of a new baffle, which is now almost a trivial undertaking. These need the most cosmetic help, if only because they have the most edge-banding to replace.

Altec 891A: I originally bought a pair of the 8”x8” JBL PT 365124 waveguides for the Altec 891A’s, but the original offset tweeter meant that the new waveguide would have to be offset too, so I shelved them and cut the front baffles for the standard 338800 WG. The JBL 123A-1 woofers drop into the original Altec woofer recess, but require new mounting screws. Cabinets are sanded, rubbed down with 0000 steel wool , oiled and look good. Cosmetically, these are essentially done.

Altec 872A Madrid: The 338800 WG would not fit between the 420A woofer and the top of the baffle, so I made new baffles relocating it down about 1”. Since the 420A mounts from the rear of the baffle and the WG from the front, they can now overlap and just fit. Cabinets are sanded, rubbed down with 0000 steel wool , oiled, looks good. Cosmetically, these are essentially done.

Altec Santana 879A: Cut new front baffles for the 338800 WG and a JBL LE14A. Still need quite a bit of work in the cosmetic arena. The front beveled edges were pretty beat up, so I bought a piece of black walnut board and had a friend cut new solid walnut replacements for the old veneer-wrapped MDF originals. Still have to cut the old off and install the new and replace the edge banding around the top.

So, it looks to me as if I will need to build three different versions of the E-wave crossovers:
standard for the 891/123A-1 setup.
high-efficiency for the 97 dB 420A/872A.
900hz low pass for the LE14A/879A Santana.

I’m using the available E-wave crossover PCB’s.

How critical are the crossover resistor values? When I was trying to order parts for the non-standard C/O’s, I found that PE didn’t always offer the 10 watt resistors in exactly the spec value. Is 25 ohm close enough to 24 ohm, or 15 close enough to 16 to suffice? Does anyone find fault with my driver combinations given what I already own?
 
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I have a pair of Eminence Kappalite 3015LF woofers. Will these work well, or should I sell them for something different?

Designing bass guitar enclosures around these, I perhaps have some insight. By home audio standards these are sensitive/loud drivers for their passband. Designing around an extended bass shelf alignment in a large box (say 5.75 cf) they can reach fairly low by home audio standards, but they aren't going to be good for much above 500 Hz, and if you value parity output below 40 Hz, good luck finding subwoofers that can keep up - you practically need Servodrives or some BagEnd ELF/INFRA boxes and processor/equivalent.

Em also has a 3012LF 12" version, but both have fs that may be higher than you want if you desire sub-40 Hz parity.
 
How critical are the crossover resistor values? When I was trying to order parts for the non-standard C/O’s, I found that PE didn’t always offer the 10 watt resistors in exactly the spec value. Is 25 ohm close enough to 24 ohm, or 15 close enough to 16 to suffice?
I believe the parts list calls out the Dayton alternate values, 16 and 25 Ohms, good to go.

I've never had a 120H-1, so I'm anxious to hear how you like that woofer. :yes:

dude, neat post that needs PIX!! i've got a pair of 879a's sitting here looking at me
Yeah, what he said.

E'Wavers want plenty PIX!! :thmbsp:
 
Lest you think all I do is lurk in the shadows and ask an occasional dumb question, here's what I've been up to:

I stumbled across this thread back in January or February when I was looking for some information about alternative drivers and cabinets for my Altec 811B horns. Well, I was completely mesmerized by the whole collaborative design exercise, so I started trolling eBay and the Lansing Heritage marketplace for a pair of cabinets to e-wave, in addition to the pair I needed for the 811B’s.

Early on, I decided that cabinets with removable front baffles would be easier for me to modify, so I concentrated my search on early 1970’s era Altec model numbers. The short integral pedestal of certain models seemed to have saved them from the wet basement or carpet storage splitting and swelling of other floor-standers, and or course, the Santana pseudo-slate plastic tops eliminated the death-by-houseplant syndrome. In the end, I wanted to wind up with something I could put in the living room, an otherwise formal space with no audio gear.

To make a long story short, after a false start with a pair of Yamaha cabinets that were just too cheaply made to fool with, next thing I knew, I was in Columbus, Ohio at Ron Speakerman57’s house, picking up a pair of Altec Santana II’s, a pair of Altec 879A Santana’s, a pair of Altec 891A’s and a pair of JBL 123A-1 woofers. A couple of weeks later a pair of Altec 872B Madrid’s, which amazingly had never been used as a plant stand or wet bar, fell into my lap.

To top it off, this affair is my FIRST speaker project ever. Never built a crossover or made a front baffle before, never took a Sawzall or sabersaw to a speaker cabinet. No real experience with a router. Since then, I’ve become pretty darn handy with the router, which has become an invaluable tool for fabricating front baffles.

I also either already owned or accumulated a pair of JBL LE120H-1 woofers, two pair of LE14A woofers plus the pair of 123A-1 woofers. The Altec Madrid’s came to me with a usable pair of Altec 420A 15” bi-flex woofers.

So my current layouts are thus:

Santana II: I’ve cut the front baffles out of the Santana II’s and made new front baffles that accommodate the 811B’s and the pair of JBL LE120H-1’s. LE14A’s will physically fit, but would require fabrication of a new baffle, which is now almost a trivial undertaking. These need the most cosmetic help, if only because they have the most edge-banding to replace.

Altec 891A: I originally bought a pair of the 8”x8” JBL PT 365124 waveguides for the Altec 891A’s, but the original offset tweeter meant that the new waveguide would have to be offset too, so I shelved them and cut the front baffles for the standard 338800 WG. The JBL 123A-1 woofers drop into the original Altec woofer recess, but require new mounting screws. Cabinets are sanded, rubbed down with 0000 steel wool , oiled and look good. Cosmetically, these are essentially done.

Altec 872A Madrid: The 338800 WG would not fit between the 420S woofer and the top of the baffle, so I made new baffles relocating it down about 1”. Since the 420A mounts from the rear of the baffle and the WG from the front, they can now overlap and just fit. Cabinets are sanded, rubbed down with 0000 steel wool , oiled, looks good. Cosmetically, these are essentially done.

Altec Santana 879A: Cut new front baffles for the 338800 WG and a JBL LE14A. Still need quite a bit of work in the cosmetic arena. The front beveled edges were pretty beat up, so I bought a piece of black walnut board and had a friend cut new solid walnut replacements for the old veneer-wrapped MDF originals. Still have to cut the old off and install the new and replace the edge banding around the top.

So, it looks to me as if I will need to build three different versions of the E-wave crossovers:
standard for the 891/123A-1 setup.
high-efficiency for the 97 dB 420A/872A.
900hz low pass for the LE14A/879A Santana.

I’m using the available E-wave crossover PCB’s.

How critical are the crossover resistor values? When I was trying to order parts for the non-standard C/O’s, I found that PE didn’t always offer the 10 watt resistors in exactly the spec value. Is 25 ohm close enough to 24 ohm, or 15 close enough to 16 to suffice? Does anyone find fault with my driver combinations given what I already own?

The Altec 879A is going to be a killer. Did you refoam them?

Russellc
 
The Altec 879A is going to be a killer. Did you refoam them?

Russellc
Yes. This pair had never had Lansalloy surrounds, so nothing was ever glued to the front of the cones. I'll try to get a group photo or two this evening. Right now the 891's and the Madrid's are on the third floor, the 879A's are in the basement and the Santana II's are in the garage. I try to keep them widely dispersed and moving around to minimize probability that the spousal speaker police will become aware of their addition to the arsenal. :yes:
 
Yes. This pair had never had Lansalloy surrounds, so nothing was ever glued to the front of the cones. I'll try to get a group photo or two this evening. Right now the 891's and the Madrid's are on the third floor, the 879A's are in the basement and the Santana II's are in the garage. I try to keep them widely dispersed and moving around to minimize probability that the spousal speaker police will become aware of their addition to the arsenal. :yes:

I know what you mean. I hid two JBL 4647 boxes, (my house at the time was only 1000 sq ft), wife never found them. The value of a gigantic messy closet was imeasurable! I have much more hiding room now, but much less money to buy things to hide.:D

Russellc
 
Lest you think all I do is lurk in the shadows and ask an occasional dumb question, here's what I've been up to:...


You are going to cause much Econo Project envy. :yes:

You have some beautiful projects on the burner.

The 879A's with LE14A's are the most interesting to me. You will love them, guaranteed.
 
You are going to cause much Econo Project envy. :yes:

You have some beautiful projects on the burner.

The 879A's with LE14A's are the most interesting to me. You will love them, guaranteed.
Hmmm... that's two unsolicited testimonials for the EW/LE14A in the 879 cabinets. The 872 Madrid cabinets are already to go and are identical in size and volume to the Santanas. Maybe I should whip up a pair of EW/LE14A baffles for them? I could steal the BMS drivers off of the 811's and be good to go with a finished 900 hz low-pass crossover.
 
Hmmm... that's two unsolicited testimonials for the EW/LE14A in the 879 cabinets. The 872 Madrid cabinets are already to go and are identical in size and volume to the Santanas. Maybe I should whip up a pair of EW/LE14A baffles for them? I could steal the BMS drivers off of the 811's and be good to go with a finished 900 hz low-pass crossover.

The BMS drivers will require a slightly different filter and compensation, likely a tank filter as well. Zilch and Skywave rider have been down that road before with some of the BMS drivers.

Yes the LE14A has been a Econowave fav for sure.

Russellc
 
Hmmm... that's two unsolicited testimonials for the EW/LE14A in the 879 cabinets. The 872 Madrid cabinets are already to go and are identical in size and volume to the Santanas. Maybe I should whip up a pair of EW/LE14A baffles for them? I could steal the BMS drivers off of the 811's and be good to go with a finished 900 hz low-pass crossover.

ROSSO, I was only speaking from experience when I said I liked the 879A cabinets with LE14A's, and not suggesting that they wouldn't sound as good in the 872's. I have never heard LE14A's in 872 cabinets, but they probably sound stellar.

The speakers in my avatar are LE14A's in 879A Santana cabinets, and are my computer speakers. The Windows sign on never sounded so good. They sit on matching Rosewood veneered stands so they don't play to my knees.

My garage speakers are also same makeup, but the cabinets are not refinished, sit in the air on storage shelves, and don't have grilles. Music in a hard environment like my garage never sounded this good either.

Your Santana's as planned will blow your mind. If you aren't impressed, you can simply send them to me. I will love them. :banana::banana::banana:
 
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