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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Thanks

Just trying to soak up the latest before I start on my Altec 14/15 clone EWaves. I'm plenty happy w/ the D220TI / DC300 in my Mach 1s so will probably keep that combo. This latest has me thinking about paying a little more attention to alignment. Any rule of thumb / guesstimate on the acoustic centers on these pieces since you've been running the iterations.


Zilch said:
There are certainly measurable differences, and we can't depend upon the physical alignment alone; the actual acoustic centers may vary considerably from there.

It's easy to see why that could be a more difficult task with the QSC than our standard eWaveguide. Well, maybe; who can guess where the Kappalite's acoustic center might fall...? :dunno:
Click to expand...
 
Hi Zilch, you have any experience using the eminence kappalite 3012LF? using what size recommended enclosure (in cubic ft)? and should it crossover at 1.2khz ? as in the standard econowave project.
 
I'm running it in trap cabs, and just fired that up last night for measurements today.

Using DE250 on QSC waveguides for starters, but will swap in D220Ti once I get a handle on it.... :yes:

550293/9524=57.7796​
 
Ok, so what size is your trap cabs ( cubic ft)? and how many port holes? and what is port Diameter (inches) x length (inches) and is the kappalite crossed at 1.2k?
 
I am using the trap cabs with the front baffle in the stock location, i.e., 1.65 cuft, but I do plan to move the baffle forward incrementally and measure various effect of increased internal volume and reduced edge diffraction.

They are tuned at 30 Hz using 2 x 2" ports, 10" long, I believe it is, because I intend to use the KappaLite with active assist to extend the bass response. Look at the suggested alignments in the Eminence application literature for guidance, and sim them in box modeling software according to your desired use.

I am trying to cross acoustically between 1.4 and 1.6 kHz. Augerpro crossed 3012HO slightly lower than this using active filters and delay; see his "No Quarters" thread on the AVS forum.

Sorry, I don't have a cookbook passive crossover solution for this driver yet, alas.... :no:
 
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How can I use the jbl 2035hpl woofers

Hello everbody.

I scored these 2035hpl woofers yesterday and I want to utilize them for an Econowave setup. I can't find a whole bunch of info on them but I think I read that they were a lower cost replacement for the 2226 driver. Not sure if thats correct or not. I know they're 98spl so I have to swap a couple of components in my crossover.

I have econowaved advents now. So, can I quickly stick this in some kind of enclosure with the high sensitivity crossovers and still have it sound decent? I have quite a few old speakers laying about and even a pair of Sansui kabuki speakers that have a 15 inch woofer in them. I was thinking I could stick the woofer in that. I don't think they are ported so I will have to mess with that.

I may try to build some enclosures specifically for these, but I can't get to any of my woodworking tools because of the snow for the foreseeable future.

any thoughts are appreciated.
 

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E-wave

I have two pairs of KLH-6 and am considering an e-wave project on one. I'm not satisfied with the old stock KLH woofer and noticed these Peerless's on sale at P/E. Do you guys think these would be good candidates for such a project? I am assuming the selenium 220Ti would be used for the top end.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-245
Any other suggestions on porting/not porting and X-overs is also greatly appreciated.
THANKS!



Zilch said:
********

Project Summary:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1856214#post1856214

Member Projects and Acknowledgments:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2260584#post2260584

Member Listening Impressions:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2528142#post2528142

Supplements:

WIRED Wiki
YouTube Video
EconoWave Info
HPM-Econo Redo
BarzilayWave Project
Large Advent
Large Advent Utility
KLH-17 Tutorial
Wharfedale W60
MAKE
Nor Cal DIY 2009
Comparo

About Waveguides :

Waveguides
Practical DIY Waveguides
Waveguide Benefits/Drawbacks - Ongoing Studies

********


Some combinations just seem to work better than others.

Member Jackgiff sent me pairs of two different inexpensive Selenium compression drivers for measurement and evaluation with Altec 811B horns in another thread. He also asked that that I do the same mating them with the $9.90 JBL Progressive Transition (PT) waveguide member Mxlews and I used in project speakers. Here's the scoop on PT waveguides:

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?docid=277&doctype=3

This particular one has a 90° (H) by 50° (V) dispersion pattern, has thread-on driver mounting, and is used in several JBL Sound Reinforcement (SR) products. Dimensions are 12" W x 6.5" H, JBL part #338800-001.

Results for Selenium D210Ti and D220Ti on this waveguide appear below:

1) D210Ti impedance

2) D220Ti impedance is "friendlier."

3) D210Ti frequency response shown unfiltered, with simple R||C filter, and on Altec Model 19 crossover with full HF compensation.

4) D220Ti frequency response, unfiltered, with "T-filter," and Model 19 XO. Only ~6 dB of compensation is required to make it play flat (+/- 2 dB) out to 18+ kHz.

5) D210Ti vs. D220Ti on Model 19 crossover (Oops, legend reversed. D220Ti is Red & Org). D220Ti has better VHF frequency response, but unit-to-unit uniformity is not as good as D210Ti for these samples. Results were similar on 811B.

6) D220Ti on PT waveguide with Model 19 crossover, decidedly the preferred driver based upon both measurements and listening evaluations.

Drivers and waveguides are now going back to Jack, who has a specific project already underway. I've ordered a pair of D220Ti, and parts for a DIY crossover which anyone should be able to construct, the concept being an economical high-frequency section for members who've been wanting to "try the horn thing." It'll mate with just about any woofer (less than 101 dB/W sensitivity for full VHF compensation) capable of playing competently up through 1.2 kHz or higher.... :thmbsp:
Click to expand...
 
maxmercy said:
Which Kappalite do you plan on using? Will it also be in the Trap cab?
Click to expand...
I'm using 3012LF. It's playing in the trap cab now.

slick.one said:
Do you guys think these would be good candidates for such a project? I am assuming the selenium 220Ti would be used for the top end.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-245

Any other suggestions on porting/not porting and X-overs is also greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Yes.

The low-efficiency variant of the crossover, closed box.... :yes:
 
slick.one said:
I have two pairs of KLH-6 and am considering an e-wave project on one. I'm not satisfied with the old stock KLH woofer and noticed these Peerless's on sale at P/E. Do you guys think these would be good candidates for such a project? I am assuming the selenium 220Ti would be used for the top end.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-245
Any other suggestions on porting/not porting and X-overs is also greatly appreciated.
THANKS!
Click to expand...

The PE description says ultraflat to 2 kHz and designed for sealed enclosures. Not sure what size box you have but it should be easy to plug into a model to see what the bottom end response looks like.

Looks like it should work just fine with the standard efficiency crossover. Hard to go wrong at $37. At some point all you can do is build tham and let your ears tell you how they work.
 
Clmrt said:
Page 3 will give you the TS parameters you need to begin your search for a good box size.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Thiele Small Parameters/Theile Parameters.pdf
Click to expand...

Yikes. I have some learnin to do. I've spent all my time working with tube builds and haven't done anything with this stuff. I suppose I'm going to have to go through this thread again. This thread is so long.:tears:

But thanks for the TS parameter, it'll get me started.

You think I should bother trying to stick the woofer in the Sansui cabs or will it sound like ass without the proper tuning?
 
word of warning, you may have to add a notch filter to knock down the giant hump in the frequency response just above 2khz.
 
E-wave

KLH-6 cabs are 1.54cf. They are sealed boxes in "stock" form but I noticed on the KLH-17 ewave thread that two ports were added. The cab volume on 17's is somewhat smaller though. KLH 6 dimensions are 11x11x22 high.

donprice said:
The PE description says ultraflat to 2 kHz and designed for sealed enclosures. Not sure what size box you have but it should be easy to plug into a model to see what the bottom end response looks like.

Looks like it should work just fine with the standard efficiency crossover. Hard to go wrong at $37. At some point all you can do is build tham and let your ears tell you how they work.
Click to expand...
 
slick.one said:
KLH-6 cabs are 1.54cf. They are sealed boxes in "stock" form but I noticed on the KLH-17 ewave thread that two ports were added. The cab volume on 17's is somewhat smaller though. KLH 6 dimensions are 11x11x22 high.
Click to expand...
I expect those Peerless SLS will play fine in KLH 6 cabs.

We never found a woofer that would play worth a whit in closed-box 17s. I do have several more candidates to try, now.... :dunno:
 
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