Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[donprice]

Has anyone come up with a 123A-QSC-DE250 configuration yet? I've got the fixin's and the trap cabs, and I'd prefer a sealed-box 123A to spending the dough on another pair of woofs. TIA - Pat

You will find lots experimenting was done with this combination but I don't recall (and can't find) a final version of a crossover design. Search the thread for 123A...

One option would be to work through the PCD design program. See the thread here...

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=215536

I think there would be a lot of interest in that combination.

Good luck!

Don

 

[skywave-rider]

Love the look, and brings my old L88+ to mind. Has anyone come up with a 123A-QSC-DE250 configuration yet? I've got the fixin's and the trap cabs, and I'd prefer a sealed-box 123A to spending the dough on another pair of woofs. TIA - Pat

I'm using that driver/waveguide/cab combo, but have not worked out a special crossover for it. I'm using a modified version of a 4 Pi crossover.

It's a kludge. It happens to sound good by accident.

I intend to work through it with PCD if I can ever get to doing it.

I am running the KDT cab sealed, with baffle moved forward and moderate to heavy fill. The WG is set on top and hanging forward about 1.5".

 

[Markus111]

Love the look, and brings my old L88+ to mind. Has anyone come up with a 123A-QSC-DE250 configuration yet? I've got the fixin's and the trap cabs, and I'd prefer a sealed-box 123A to spending the dough on another pair of woofs. TIA - Pat

I'm currently working on that exact setup right now in a 3.5 cu box. I almost have the crossover where I want it. It is a bi-atch trying to steer the node where I want it. That woofer is so shallow and the WG is so deep, it's hard to get the vertical response window very wide. Right now, the node is just about straight on from the midpoint between the guide and the woofer, and probably good for 30 degrees. I'll post the final design I come up with pretty soon.

Markus

 

[Zilch]

Love the look, and brings my old L88+ to mind. Has anyone come up with a 123A-QSC-DE250 configuration yet? I've got the fixin's and the trap cabs, and I'd prefer a sealed-box 123A to spending the dough on another pair of woofs. TIA - Pat

If I did, it was most likely using the standard waveguide rather than the QSC, but maybe.

Here with PRX:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3341200#post3341200

Here with QSC:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3213532#post3213532

It is a bi-atch trying to steer the node where I want it.

[Ain't it, though?

]

 

[donprice]

It is a bi-atch trying to steer the node where I want it. That woofer is so shallow and the WG is so deep, it's hard to get the vertical response window very wide.

Has anyone tried the 123A with a DE 250 on a shallow waveguide? The QSC HPR122i (10" round) is 3" deep and it looks like it would help the drivers align vertically.

 

[Zilch]

Has anyone tried the 123A with a DE 250 on a shallow waveguide? The QSC HPR122i (10" round) is 3" deep and it looks like it would help the drivers align vertically.

That waveguide is next on deck for installation in Delite 10 here, so we'll know more about it shortly.... :yes:

 

[skywave-rider]

I'm currently working on that exact setup right now in a 3.5 cu box. I almost have the crossover where I want it. It is a bi-atch trying to steer the node where I want it. That woofer is so shallow and the WG is so deep, it's hard to get the vertical response window very wide. Right now, the node is just about straight on from the midpoint between the guide and the woofer, and probably good for 30 degrees. I'll post the final design I come up with pretty soon.

Markus

Cool. So it seems you've nailed it. What's left to tweak? Are you trying to steer up slightly?

 

[jrock7]

how much does the QSC HPR122i waveguide cost?

 

[donprice]

how much does the QSC HPR122i waveguide cost?

$6.55

http://qsc.stores.yahoo.net/hpr122ihorn.html

75 degree conical pattern

Hmmmm...I wonder how that would work/look as a tower with pair of 10" JBL 125A woofers in a 2.5-way alignment. Not that I need them but I might already have the woofers.

 

[Markus111]

Cool. So it seems you've nailed it. What's left to tweak? Are you trying to steer up slightly?

I'm actually trying to get the bass where I want it now. I have a bump at 45 Hz, and I'm considering popping in two scanvents to make it an aperiodic cabinet. I want to double and triple check myself before drilling two big holes into my cabinet. So I don't want to say that the xover is final until it's really final, in case I have to adjust something after adding (?) vents.

Markus

 

[tubesguy]

I'm currently working on that exact setup right now in a 3.5 cu box. I almost have the crossover where I want it. It is a bi-atch trying to steer the node where I want it. That woofer is so shallow and the WG is so deep, it's hard to get the vertical response window very wide. Right now, the node is just about straight on from the midpoint between the guide and the woofer, and probably good for 30 degrees. I'll post the final design I come up with pretty soon.

Markus

Thanks guys, sounds like I can stay with the 123A, which sure looks purdy in Zilch's linked post. Looking forward to it. - Pat

 

[skywave-rider]

I'm actually trying to get the bass where I want it now. I have a bump at 45 Hz, and I'm considering popping in two scanvents to make it an aperiodic cabinet. I want to double and triple check myself before drilling two big holes into my cabinet. So I don't want to say that the xover is final until it's really final, in case I have to adjust something after adding (?) vents.

Markus

Yea mine are boomy. I keep them as far away from boundaries as possible. Mids are real nice as you know. Curious to know how the aperiodic vent works out. Hard to measure I think.

 

[badman]

Thanks guys, sounds like I can stay with the 123A, which sure looks purdy in Zilch's linked post. Looking forward to it. - Pat

In my own, non-ewave project, I came to the conclusion that this was one of the best drivers ever made. Naturally there are many excellent classic drivers, but the combination of clean extended bandwidth and real bass is pretty hard to contest. The low inductance single-layer edgewound coil sure doesn't hurt anything either.

 

[fraser.]

anyone tried the JBL 2204H driver?

I can get them pretty cheap but not sure how they sound

 

[donprice]

anyone tried the JBL 2204H driver?

I can get them pretty cheap but not sure how they sound

I have used the very similar 2206 to build eWave side-fill/stage monitors. Pretty efficient with tremendous power handling capabilities but they are not designed for low end bass. Run the box models and you will see what I mean - you need to run them with a subwoofer.

 

[GordonW]

I'm actually trying to get the bass where I want it now. I have a bump at 45 Hz, and I'm considering popping in two scanvents to make it an aperiodic cabinet. I want to double and triple check myself before drilling two big holes into my cabinet. So I don't want to say that the xover is final until it's really final, in case I have to adjust something after adding (?) vents.

Markus

What's vent frequency? I find that it needs to be in the low 20s for a 2213/123A to not have appreciable peaking around 40-50 Hz or so. Filling the cabinet about 80% full (loosely, and making sure to not "block" the path between woofer and vent) of fiberglass insulation seems to make a positive difference too.

Also, as skywaverider mentioned... getting them away from boundaries works. The L100 seemed to be MUCH better (even in the relatively tiny cabinet) on about a 12" tall stand...

 

[GordonW]

Speaking of 2204- I'm thinking of trying to make up a "standard kit" to convert these to the elusive 2203 (a.k.a 124H)- foam-edge cone, sort of like a mini-2234.

All it would take, methinks, is the 2204 cone with fabric surround cut off, replaced by the 128H foam surround, the 2234/2235 type voice coil (3/4" winding height, IIRC), and a softer spider (a.k.a, that used in the 2234/2235). All the parts to do this are available to do in the aftermarket...

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[Markus111]

What's vent frequency? I find that it needs to be in the low 20s for a 2213/123A to not have appreciable peaking around 40-50 Hz or so. Filling the cabinet about 80% full (loosely, and making sure to not "block" the path between woofer and vent) of fiberglass insulation seems to make a positive difference too.

Also, as skywaverider mentioned... getting them away from boundaries works. The L100 seemed to be MUCH better (even in the relatively tiny cabinet) on about a 12" tall stand...

These are 3.5 cu sealed cabinets. Realistically, they are probably less, as that QSC waveguide and extra bracing takes up quite a bit of space. I had 123a's in 4.5 cu sealed boxes, and they sounded quite nice. Unfortunately, I can't get these very far from the wall in my listening space.

 

[Zilch]

Gratuitous post for score-keeping.

[I'll put something more interesting here eventually.... ]

640056/10557=60.6286​

 

[Navydoc]

I entered all the components required for three Deluxe econowaves into my shopping cart at PE (I already have three QSC waveguides). Total cost is $1250.73 (Eminence Kappalite 3012LF, B&C DE250, and trap cabinets).

Before I seek final launch authority from mission control (ie wife) are there any new developments pending that I should consider? The crossover design I have is dated 3-7-2010, is this the current iteration?

These speakers will replace my old Paradigm's in HT, primary use is concerts on blu-ray (hard rock, prog rock, jazz and classical) and assorted action movies.

Read over 150 pages of the thread, still have a lot more to read. Thanks to all who have posted such strong endorsements, seems like they should sound fantastic.

Plan is to port the PE traps (baffle moved flush with front) at 44 Hz tuning frequency (based on modeling on Woofer Box).